first sbr build

Liquid · 06-21-2011, 19:02

my yhm phantom didnt look so good on my 16" ar. so i decided i wanted something a little shorter. someone warned me about this when i was looking for the can. they suggested to look into a sbr. i got notification my lower came in. do i need to buy the upper and stock before i send off for paperwork? i would prefer pick up the lower up get it engraved with the name of the trust and send off the form 1 and 4? this would allow me a few months to decided what upper and stock combination to get.

thanks,

liquid

8th SPS USAF · 06-22-2011, 08:39

Someone else may add, but I think you only need F 1. I did to build my RRA
SBR. Do not get anything that you need to build your SBR till you get paperwork back from ATF. No bbls, etc. Good luck

***RWBlue*** · 06-22-2011, 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8th SPS USAF

Someone else may add, but I think you only need F 1. I did to build my RRA
SBR. Do not get anything that you need to build your SBR till you get paperwork back from ATF. No bbls, etc. Good luck

The barrel is the critical item.

You will probably want your lower so you can duplicate the serial number. Having the stock, upper receiver, flash suppressor.....are not an issue. The barrel is the issue.

The problem I encountered is I couldn't file the paperwork until I had a barrel because I couldn't do the measurements. What I did was sent the barrel to a different location so as to keep the SBR parts away from the other regular rifle parts.. What I have been told I should have done is estimate the total length.

Good luck, please post pictures.

Liquid · 06-23-2011, 18:15

thanks for the info. i was under impression once i register the lower i could use different uppers? i would assume i could use different lengths. i just ended up buying another gun this morning so if i have to order more stuff i am going to have to put this project on the back burner. but based on what you said could just enter any numbers for the length? are there any links to places that show you step by step how to fill out the paperwork?

thanks

***RWBlue*** · 06-24-2011, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquid

thanks for the info. i was under impression once i register the lower i could use different uppers? i would assume i could use different lengths. i just ended up buying another gun this morning so if i have to order more stuff i am going to have to put this project on the back burner. but based on what you said could just enter any numbers for the length? are there any links to places that show you step by step how to fill out the paperwork?

thanks

I had an interesting conversation with an ATF people a while back on this matter. I don't think they know what the law is and I hate to advise because I haven't been able to get a consistent answer.

1. According to some ATF officers, you must register your SBR for every caliber, and barrel length.

2. According to other ATF officers, it is registered as a SBR. Swap stuff as needed.

Trying to stay with #1. When I registered my AR-15 receiver as SBR, I registered it for every cartridge I could think of. I was told specifically, I could not write down "multiple" and "any" and other terms that left things open. If I can swap stuff, why not just write down multiple, or pick the primary and let it go at that?

Thinking about it afterward. #2 seems like a very common sense approach. As long as the change is not permanent. I basically told the ATF I was planning on doing this and they didn't seem to have a problem. My approver approved me.

Sorry for being vague. But I honestly don't know.

I think many of us are hoping our Gov. has common sense, but fearing they are idiots.

I do have one more thing that I didn't think would effect me at the time, but now it does. Once a receiver is registered as a SBR, you can not just put a longer barreled upper on it and "magically" it stops being a SBR. This is restricting my travels/where I can live/where I can shoot to an extent.

eracer · 06-24-2011, 12:10

I have always understood (and my NFA-savvy attorney has informed me) that the lower is the only thing that is registered.

You can put any upper assembly on that lower, as long as you have immediate access to the barrel that the SBR was originally registered for.

So, I registered my lower as an 8" .300 BLK. As long as I have that upper (and the stamp) with me, I can put any other other upper on it.

And no, putting a 16" barrel on an NFA registered lower does not affect its status as an SBR.

Suppressors are a different matter.

Liquid · 06-24-2011, 20:09

rwblue i see your point about it being a sbr forever. i dont plan on adding a 16" upper and being able to sell it off.

Liff · 06-24-2011, 20:21

Crazy as it may sound, I have been told by my lawyer that there is a grey area in the barrel length issue. Say you were to register the length as 14.5 inches. Then a 12 inch barrel is a 'No-Go' as the barrel is shorter than what was registered. Vice versa is OK though, because it is longer than what was registered.

The caliber thing is goofy also because more than one HK sear has been registered in more than one caliber. I am not so sure on that issue.

Either way, you may find yourself explaining this in court. How would you best cover your bases?

jfirecops · 06-26-2011, 07:42

When you purchase a lower it will normally be stamped with a caliber, this is the caliber you use and the serial number. Also, remember that it will take around 4 months to get your Form 1 back, so you really don't have to engrave it until you get the stamp back.
The barrel length question will depend on the Agent you ask. Typical answer that they will all approve is register the shortest length you would ever put on it.

Good luck with your build, I love mine

Liquid · 06-26-2011, 11:14

ok lots of great info. i have a spikes lower that is marked muli caliber. it would be safe to start off with the shortest length possible, i believe that is a 7"?

***RWBlue*** · 06-26-2011, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liquid

rwblue i see your point about it being a sbr forever. i dont plan on adding a 16" upper and being able to sell it off.

The biggest issue for me is the traveling, not the selling.

I am sitting in one spot and my NFA gear is sitting in another.

r2kba · 06-26-2011, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWBlue

I do have one more thing that I didn't think would effect me at the time, but now it does. Once a receiver is registered as a SBR, you can not just put a longer barreled upper on it and "magically" it stops being a SBR. This is restricting my travels/where I can live/where I can shoot to an extent.

If you put a 16" upper on your NFA SBR and take it across state lines to go shooting, it's legal. An SBR is only an SBR when it is in it's SBR configuration.

Liff · 06-26-2011, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by r2kba

If you put a 16" upper on your NFA SBR and take it across state lines to go shooting, it's legal. An SBR is only an SBR when it is in it's SBR configuration.

Not how an AFT agent described this to me. I recently moved to a state that does not allow SBRs at all. I asked the AFT agent at a machine gun shoot, who was there to describe the rules and regulations to us, "So if I put a 24 inch barreled upper on this SBR lower, then you say it is an SBR still?" The answer I got back was, "The lower is registered as an SBR, so it is an SBR." Or: you could put a 24 inch barrel on a pistol, and it is still a pistol (with a really long barrel).

Think about it a different way: If you were to strip the lower completely, then what is that receiver? It is an SBR, as it is the only registered part. And subjected to all the rules and regulations of SBRs, even if it is a striped lower.

A machine gun is always a machine gun, an SBR is always an SBR, a SBS is .......

ETA: The worst place to receive advise of if what you are planning on doing is a felony or not is some internet forum. From some one you don't even know, specifically me. Think about it, read the original regulations, error on the side of caution, make your own decision, and good luck to you.

Liquid · 06-26-2011, 19:22

i can see the rational for both sides of the argument. i am in s. fl and hardly travel out of state. if i ever do end up moving i am fine leaving my toys with my father or inlaws. i am sure if need be i can modify my trust to make it legal.

jfirecops · 06-26-2011, 19:34

If you move or travel all you need is to file a ATF form 5320.20 as long as your going to a NFA friendly state.