[EL_NinO619]

I took my first practical defense class. The class was intermediate/Advanced tactical Mag changes. We would run from cover to cover, fire 4 shots and reload our mags to top off. Well the whole reloading while holding a mag and not dropping the mag before pulling another is damn hard. Also just running and gunning is a hell of a lot harder than it looks. We also would drop mags in the dirt close our eyes and try to recover them quickly as if you where in pitch black darkness. So all in all i learned a lot and learned i suck compared to the practicing i do in my home or desert. But i did learn that I'm a damn good re loader. All 800 rounds of 230gr Berry's with 6.3gr of unique fired flawlessly. Though i did have two jams 1 due to not seating mag all the way, and the other from a damaged mag.

I gave my own little lesson on reloading, because there where guys there paying 26-34 $ a box. One poor soul payed $33 for a box of 9 . Being the nice guy i am i gave a few my email and offered to teach them..Well show the the slow way of loading on a crappy red press.

So things learned from today's experience..

1) I NEED to train a hell of a lot more.
2) Everyone that owns a firearm should take some kind of training
3) Though i love bench shooting, nothing beats running and gunning
4) I have a lot more respect for individual who train on a two way gun range.
5) And last but not least there are crazy people out there that tell me they shot at least a 1000 rounds a week and buy factory... But I was kind enough to share my vast knowledge of reloading

P.S. I did see two Glocks jam twice today. And one of the Glocks was the instructors. After that he pulled out his 30 year old Colt 1911 with 10 round mags....EPIC

[Boxerglocker]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

I took my first practical defense class. The class was intermediate/Advanced tactical Mag changes. We would run from cover to cover, fire 4 shots and reload our mags to top off. Well the whole reloading while holding a mag and not dropping the mag before pulling another is damn hard. Also just running and gunning is a hell of a lot harder than it looks. We also would drop mags in the dirt close our eyes and try to recover them quickly as if you where in pitch black darkness. So all in all i learned a lot and learned i suck compared to the practicing i do in my home or desert. But i did learn that I'm a damn good re loader. All 800 rounds of 230gr Berry's with 6.3gr of unique fired flawlessly. Though i did have two jams 1 due to not seating mag all the way, and the other from a damaged mag.

I gave my own little lesson on reloading, because there where guys there paying 26-34 $ a box. One poor soul payed $33 for a box of 9 . Being the nice guy i am i gave a few my email and offered to teach them..Well show the the slow way of loading on a crappy red press.

So things learned from today's experience..

1) I NEED to train a hell of a lot more.
2) Everyone that owns a firearm should take some kind of training
3) Though i love bench shooting, nothing beats running and gunning
4) I have a lot more respect for individual who train on a two way gun range.
5) And last but not least there are crazy people out there that tell me they shot at least a 1000 rounds a week and buy factory... But I was kind enough to share my vast knowledge of reloading

P.S. I did see two Glocks jam twice today. And one of the Glocks was the instructors. After that he pulled out his 30 year old Colt 1911 with 10 round mags....EPIC

You got to get you butt up here this summer bro and visit. We can run some training days at the bays in Norpoint with Brian and shoot some matches.

[fredj338]

Yeah, why many won't get into something like IDPA, you learn quickly what you weaknesses are & how bad or good you really are. Training is essential, good training even more so. Something like IDPA can help your practice because you do many of the same thing you would do in training, but have more fun at it. It does NOT negate the need for good training but is good practice.

[norton]

How practical is it to work on mag changes under stress? If you aren't' LEO or in the military, how likely is it that you would even have extra mags on your person in the event of a gun fight?

[WiskyT]

Originally Posted by norton

How practical is it to work on mag changes under stress? If you aren't' LEO or in the military, how likely is it that you would even have extra mags on your person in the event of a gun fight?

With the subcompact guns and their low capcity, coupled with the more frequent arrests of terrorist who plot to shoot up public places like malls, it's not unthinkable. I carry a spare mag for my 7+1 LC9. The spare mag is smaller than the pocket knife I carry.

[redbrd]

Originally Posted by norton

How practical is it to work on mag changes under stress? If you aren't' LEO or in the military, how likely is it that you would even have extra mags on your person in the event of a gun fight?

If you carry for defense any shooting under stress will help you. Real life shootings really identify the strengths and weaknesses of your training. Most events happen very quickly and you respond the way you have programmed yourself to. How you shoot and move and manipulate your weapon could easily be what saves your life.

IDPA is good cheap and available training for the average CCW'er. A lot of good well trained folks do IDPA so you can see what does and doesn't work. A lot of good training to be had if you are open minded. Not to mention the camaraderie and competition is great.

[GioaJack]

I've only had to reload 3 times in social encounters, (reload twice in one instance), but we were still using revolvers with speed strips.

If you've practiced enough you never even look at your gun and when everything is over and done you don't even remember doing it. You obviously know you did, there's brass laying on the ground but you don't remember doing it.

I think it'd be more fun reloading an artillery piece... now that you're going to remember!


Jack

[Tpro]

Actually this gives you a LITTLE more understanding of what it's like in the military. Except someone is trying to blow your brains out and manifold other things at the same time.

They are underpaid, underappreciated and disrespected by many today (I could possibly say hated by this sorry excuse for an administration but I'll let that go).

I did my time (3 years) and I wish I would have stayed in til retirement.

I have the utmost respect for these folks.

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by norton

How practical is it to work on mag changes under stress? If you aren't' LEO or in the military, how likely is it that you would even have extra mags on your person in the event of a gun fight?

Well you should. A semiauto w/o a functional mag is useless. Even if you carry a highcap, carry a spare mag. Murphy's law; if it can happen it will. If nothing else, a spare mag helps facilitate some gun FTF. Yes, you need to practice those skills if you are a serious ccw. In the really rare chance you need your gun, you probably need a reload, especially if it is a single stack.

[EL_NinO619]

Originally Posted by norton

How practical is it to work on mag changes under stress? If you aren't' LEO or in the military, how likely is it that you would even have extra mags on your person in the event of a gun fight?

You never know. Plus i really did not take the class believing i am going to turn into tactical joe. For $40 bucks a class, i have a lot of fun and learn things you cant do at the normal range. Get to test my self and my shooting under stress, and my gun under dirty mag in the dirt conditions. I believe if you own a gun and are serious about having a gun for what they are used for (self protection) Then you should now how to manipulate it under stress. Because there wont be a seize fire when some crack head breaks into your home. And what better way to test your reloads...

Tpro as you see my OP lesson learned #4 Having more respect for the guys on a two way range. That means guys that get shot at for a living.

[StaTiK]

Originally Posted by norton

How practical is it to work on mag changes under stress? If you aren't' LEO or in the military, how likely is it that you would even have extra mags on your person in the event of a gun fight?

You're right that most gunfights do not require a mag change... but heaven help you if you need one and don't have one! Most LEO/military gunfights don't require mag changes either, but they still carry extras for the same reason civilians do.

-StaTiK-

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

I believe if you own a gun and are serious about having a gun for what they are used for (self protection) Then you should now how to manipulate it under stress. Because there wont be a seize fire when some crack head breaks into your home. And what better way to test your reloads...
.

While a practical reality, the vast majority use their guns for fun & games. Still, if your choice is for SD/HD, then not training & not practicing as many diff things that may happen in a gunfight, foolish at best. Reloading, multiple attackers, hostage situations, MALFUNCTIONS, etc, yes they should all be practiced.

[Boxerglocker]

Originally Posted by norton

How practical is it to work on mag changes under stress? If you aren't' LEO or in the military, how likely is it that you would even have extra mags on your person in the event of a gun fight?

Extremely practical and important. The majority of handgun weapons failure are because of mag issues.... changing one readily and quickly is a very important skill as it wil get you back in the fight.

[unclebob]

Originally Posted by GioaJack

I think it'd be more fun reloading an artillery piece... now that you're going to remember!

Jack

I have done that a few times. Personally I like the 40mm better. Me and 20mm never did seen eye to eye. But I did like the 40mm better when it would fire 160 rds. per minute. Instead of the 100rpm.

[unclebob]

Originally Posted by EL_NinO619

P.S. I did see two Glocks jam twice today. And one of the Glocks was the instructors. After that he pulled out his 30 year old Colt 1911 with 10 round mags....EPIC

Just curious how many Glock were there and how many 1911 were there? How many 1911 had a malfunction? What was the cause of the malfunctions?

[shotgunred]

800 rounds for a one day class is very impressive. I wish I could get one day classes for $40.00. My last class cost $350 for a 3 day class.

I was happy to learn when I went up to tac riffle that while rifle skills and pistol skills are not the same running and gunning crosses over reasonably well. While tactical gun games are not as good as a professional trainer most of us can afford to go to go to a lot more of them. The combination of gun games and professional training are about the best deal most of us are going to get.

I know I am going to luckey if I can get to one class a year.

[norton]

I guess my skepticism comes from seeing a video on a training session where ladies who were not shooters were being "trained" to reload their wheel guns while the instructor stood beside them and screamed. Really? Granny is going to have extra rounds handy to reload while her antagonist stands there waiting for her to fill the charge holes? Couldn't the time be spent showing her how to use cover, or something else more useful rather then reload? Like how to get out of Dodge, or what the consequences are going to be in court if you are indiscriminately firing dozens of rounds?

[labdwakin]

Flatlanders

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by norton

I guess my skepticism comes from seeing a video on a training session where ladies who were not shooters were being "trained" to reload their wheel guns while the instructor stood beside them and screamed. Really? Granny is going to have extra rounds handy to reload while her antagonist stands there waiting for her to fill the charge holes? Couldn't the time be spent showing her how to use cover, or something else more useful rather then reload? Like how to get out of Dodge, or what the consequences are going to be in court if you are indiscriminately firing dozens of rounds?

There are diff methods, diff trainers. Beign "screamed" at has it's place in providing stress, so don;t be too critical. I've done it while training & there is a malfunction & the shooter stops. "

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by norton

I guess my skepticism comes from seeing a video on a training session where ladies who were not shooters were being "trained" to reload their wheel guns while the instructor stood beside them and screamed. Really? Granny is going to have extra rounds handy to reload while her antagonist stands there waiting for her to fill the charge holes? Couldn't the time be spent showing her how to use cover, or something else more useful rather then reload? Like how to get out of Dodge, or what the consequences are going to be in court if you are indiscriminately firing dozens of rounds?

There are diff methods, diff trainers. Beign "screamed" at has it's place in providing stress, so don;t be too critical. I've done it while training & there is a malfunction & the shooter stops. "FIX IT! GET BACK IN THE FIGHT"! Yeah, there is some merrit to that style, maybe not w/ complete newbs, but useful. IF you train & only shoot on a flat range under no stress, you are woefully lacking when the bell rings for real IMO.

[GioaJack]

I've said it before. I'm saying it again, and I'll continue to say it no matter how many times I get yelled at, you want an advantage in a social engagement, learn to shoot with one hand and without sights.

I look forward to your naysaying comments.


Jack

[DoctaGlockta]

Originally Posted by GioaJack

I've said it before. I'm saying it again, and I'll continue to say it no matter how many times I get yelled at, you want an advantage in a social engagement, learn to shoot with one hand and without sights.

I look forward to your naysaying comments.


Jack

Funny you mention that. I've just started to practice that at the range. Get funny looks but oh well.

[albyihat]

Took my friend to our local IDPA shoot last weekend. He shoots everyweek at the indoor range and truth be told he is a better shot than me. This was his first IDPA, he shot his XD 9mm and I shot my .357 gp-100 when the dust settled I was 25 seconds faster than him and less points down. He could not believe how much stress was added just by having someone follow you around with a timer. He is also hooked and can't wait for next month.

[Hoser]

Originally Posted by GioaJack

you want an advantage in a social engagement, learn to shoot with one hand and without sights.

While moving away from the threat...

[norton]

Originally Posted by GioaJack

I've said it before. I'm saying it again, and I'll continue to say it no matter how many times I get yelled at, you want an advantage in a social engagement, learn to shoot with one hand and without sights.

I look forward to your naysaying comments.


Jack

Since you mentioned it in a post a couple of months ago, I have tried the backing away from the target at an angle shoot. Starting at 7 yards and generally ending up about 15 yards from the target before my gun runs dry.