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Old 07-02-2011, 12:54   #76
M&P15T
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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
If she invites him in and ends up killing him, you can bet your ass that the OP will be spending long hours being interviewed, deposed, and testifying.
About what? Where is your imgaination taking this?
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:55   #77
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I certainly would. No problem. But I'm in Virginia, that's a bit of a drive.
What's a bit of a drive to go save a damsel in distress against a dastardly rapist?
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:00   #78
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
You're making so many negative assumptions, I can't count them all.

You're assuming the woman is lying.
You're assuming she will not testify.
You're assuming she will get back with him in the future.
You're assuming she is going to invite the guy over so she can kill him.

Why don't we wait until the OP clears things up a bit about the people involved?
According to the sex crimes investigation training I received, 50% of all reports of sex crimes are bogus. According to my personal expirience, the number is higher. I didn't say she would invite him over to kill him. I said if she invites him over, and I can all but guarantee you she will, AND she ends up killing him, she will be investigated for a capital crime. If a capital crime is investigated, her phone records, purchases etc will be scrutinized. She will tell them when she is interviewed where she got the gun and how she learned to use it. If you don't think that will result in the party that supplied the gun and training to be interviewed, deposed and called to testify, you are half a bubble off.

There is simply nothing like seeing a woman in the supermarket with a man that you locked up six months earlier for stabbing her in the stomach so hard it broke the knife blade off. It just restores you whole faith in humanity
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:00   #79
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So you have figured out that she's not going to carry this gun? Is there some kind of unwritten rule that violent ex's won't attack someone unless they are in the home? She doesn't need to wait months to get a CHP in AZ. Regardless, the gun should be carried and 99% of the gun enthusiasts I know aren't proficient enough with their guns to use a semi, let alone a novice who likely will never do more than shoot half a box through it if she shoots it at all.
I agree, but if a person doesn't stay up on their shooting skills, an auto like a G26 is easier to use (and actually hit the BG) than a similar sized revolver, based on trigger pull and sights alone.

Just like others, you like revolvers, and you'll go to any and all imaginative ends to support your choice. The reality is that autos dominate the market for many very, very good reason. They're better for HD/SD, easier to learn, easier to shoot.

You may not agree (and I know you won't), but that doesn't change reality.
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:03   #80
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I agree, but if a person doesn't stay up on their shooting skills, an auto like a G26 is easier to use (and actually hit the BG) than a similar sized revolver, based on trigger pull and sights alone.

Just like others, you like revolvers, and you'll go to any and all imaginative ends to support your choice. The reality is that autos dominate the market for many very, very good reason. They're better for HD/SD, easier to learn, easier to shoot.

You may not agree (and I know you won't), but that doesn't change reality.
I don't much care for revolvers. I carry autos. Autos are easier to hit with, but they don't work well with chewing gun amd tampon wrappers jammed in them.
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:05   #81
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According to the sex crimes investigation training I received, 50% of all reports of sex crimes are bogus. According to my personal expirience, the number is higher. I didn't say she would invite him over to kill him. I said if she invites him over, and I can all but guarantee you she will, AND she ends up killing him, she will be investigated for a capital crime. If a capital crime is investigated, her phone records, purchases etc will be scrutinized. She will tell them when she is interviewed where she got the gun and how she learned to use it. If you don't think that will result in the party that supplied the gun and training to be interviewed, deposed and called to testify, you are half a bubble off.

There is simply nothing like seeing a woman in the supermarket with a man that you locked up six months earlier for stabbing her in the stomach so hard it broke the knife blade off. It just restores you whole faith in humanity
You're making negatiive assumptions based on your past experiences. Obviously, you have indeed lost your faith in humanity. Understood. I'm not, I'm assuming the woman is a good person, and simply wants to survive what is going on.


Now.

Are you going to give an exact court-case account of how someone that taught another how to use a firearm was brought into a case? Never heard of it, and won't believe it if you can't provide court transcripts. If this was a continuously occuring issue, shooting clubs and trainers would be out of buisness.
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:09   #82
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
You're making negatiive assumptions based on your past experiences. Obviously, you have indeed lost your faith in humanity. Understood. I'm not, I'm assuming the woman is a good person, and simply wants to survive what is going on.


Now.

Are you going to give an exact court-case account of how someone that taught another how to use a firearm was brought into a case? Never heard of it, and won't believe it if you can't provide court transcripts. If this was a continuously occuring issue, shooting clubs and trainers would be out of buisness.
No
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:23   #83
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Ruger LC9. Small, affordable, 9mm.

I agree about the snubby probably not being a good choice for a newbie. I shoot hundreds of rounds per week in various autos and the snubby is a chore. Fun, but it kicks more and has more blast than any auto I have. But some people may take to it right away.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 07-02-2011 at 13:25..
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:26   #84
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If you could provide one actual adjudicated case where a previously assaulted and raped female got charged with murder defending herself, I'd be shocked. Me thinks you have a twisted sense of the legal system.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...FWQjaJPLDw1cOw
Download and read this .pdf. It talks about many cases where battered women were imprisoned after they killed their abuser.

Here's another good link.
http://www.hawthornedvrt.org/Women-a...c-Violence.htm
"Currently there are 2,000 battered women in America who are serving prison time for defending their lives against their batterers."
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:00   #85
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What's a bit of a drive to go save a damsel in distress against a dastardly rapist?
I'm not her friend. The OP is.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:03   #86
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I think it was posted in #67

S&W Model 10 trade in or used. Load it up or down. Easy to train on and remember. My wife qualified with a G19, but she feels more comfortable with a revolver. Easier manual of arms. Model 10s can be found all over for under $300. It's a great loaner gun. All steel keeps the recoil down too.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:10   #87
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Originally Posted by Just1More View Post
Don't get a semi-automatic for someone who doesn't know anything about guns. Get a revolver.


I'm always surprised at how many experienced shooters recommend what's best & safest for them, not for a beginner.

Plus, there is no such thing as a cheap, reliable auto. A reliable revolver can be had for way less money.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:10   #88
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Originally Posted by TN.Frank View Post
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...FWQjaJPLDw1cOw
Download and read this .pdf. It talks about many cases where battered women were imprisoned after they killed their abuser.

Here's another good link.
http://www.hawthornedvrt.org/Women-a...c-Violence.htm
"Currently there are 2,000 battered women in America who are serving prison time for defending their lives against their batterers."
I perused as best as I could here at work. There's nothing in specific, just social work numbers put together to get an over-view of a specific problem, I'm not seeing any court cases where a woman was accused and charged with murder (wrongly) for defending herself against an attacker/rapist. I have never heard of hundreds or thousands of women being wrongfuly accused and convicted of murder over a self-defense issue.

I'm confused, and I don't think we're having the same conversation. I also think you're negative view of human beings has you assuming many negatives in this particualr situation. I don't share your view-point, and will continue to assume the woman this thread is about is not going to murder her ex over this, she just wants to be able to defend herself in case he attacks her again.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:11   #89
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I'm always surprised at how many experienced shooters recommend what's best & safest for them, not for a beginner.

Plus, there is no such thing as a cheap, reliable auto. A reliable revolver can be had for way less money.

Used G26. Better than any similar sized revolver in many ways.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:15   #90
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I don't believe she would be that worried about comfort. Two pound gun versus 200 lb assailant. Which one can you take for more than a couple of minutes?

I imagine she would cheerfully take the recoil from almost anything in the pursuit of self-defense.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:23   #91
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Don't get a semi-automatic for someone who doesn't know anything about guns. Get a revolver.
I disagree. The notion that women/ newbs can't learn semi autos is stupid. Can they use a computer? Can they drive a car? Can they do taxes? Then they can load a magazine.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:31   #92
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Ruger SR9C, Ruger LC9

Less concealable but still reliable: S&W Sigma(HEAVY trigger), Ruger P-series, police trade-in S&W 3rd Gen.

Taurus revolvers are actually good quality. The only downsides to a revolver are a little heavier trigger pull, less capacity, and how long it takes to reload even with speed loaders.
While I love my Ruger SR9c, the recoil spring is quite heavy. I have no problem with it but I'm guessing she'll hate it (my wife has trouble with it anyway).
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:43   #93
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Whatever she gets, revolver or semi-automatic, I recommend adding and sighting in a CrimsonTrace laser grip/guard. I prefer that brand because it is activated automatically when the gun is gripped for shooting.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:51   #94
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My fiance's friend from work has an abusive ex that's been stalking/harrassing her for months. Yesterday he came to her house, and beat her senseless, raped her, and threatened to kill her. The police arrested him and he is currently locked up, but no telling when/how quickly he will get out.

She's been asking us to take her to the range and teach her about guns and how to shoot - she knows absolutely nothing about firearms, but after speaking to her, she has made up her mind to carry and take this seriously. I'm taking her tomorrow first thing - but she needs to get a handgun. Her main problem is money - I told her the best bet would to be to pawn whatever she can, and get a new/used glock26 - I have a feeling she won't be able to get the money required to afford a glock.

My question is: What are a few affordable but RELIABLE pistols, that are smaller or around the size of a g26 - 9mm is preferred but 380 is as low as I think she should go. Her ex is 300+lb's, I'm concerned about a 380's ability to penetrate reliably.

Any suggestions?
She is not going to be comfortable with a pistol if the grip is too large for her. A gun that fits you perfectly may be a poor choice for her. I suggest that she try out any pistol at the range before buying it. My wife tried a number of guns before finally settling on a Springfield Armory XD-9-SC. The biggest issue is being able to grip the gun properly and still reach the trigger easily. If she has to rotate the gun in her grip to reach the trigger then it is too big for her.

Rather than worrying about saving a few bucks on the gun, worry about buying a gun she ends up not wanting to shoot (been there a couple of times and got the t-shirt). It is cheaper to get a gun she likes the first time even if it costs a bit more.

Really good info here for the female shooter.

http://corneredcat.com/

Here is a great explanation of how to choose a gun that fits you.

http://corneredcat.com/FirstGun/tryongun.aspx
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:53   #95
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I disagree. The notion that women/ newbs can't learn semi autos is stupid. Can they use a computer? Can they drive a car? Can they do taxes? Then they can load a magazine.
You got it!!! I taught 4 different females to shoot. Not one of them had the slightest bit of a problem.
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Old 07-02-2011, 15:23   #96
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I'm not her friend. The OP is.
The OP isn't her friend. The OP's fiancee is her friend.
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Old 07-02-2011, 15:25   #97
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None of which will be believed by the OP until he finds out that the victim has refused to testify in court.
Maybe not all the time, but if I were gonna place a wager of more than 5 bucks its how I would bet

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I'd recommend to stay out of this volatile situation. It's "he said/she said" right now. .
I agree

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Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
If she invites him in and ends up killing him, you can bet your ass that the OP will be spending long hours being interviewed, deposed, and testifying.
I wouldn't necessarily bet on the testifying part, but my guess is that even the interviews by the homicide investigators would be enough to strongly discourage me. And thats when you know them... I can only imagine what might be like if you don't.



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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
You're making so many negative assumptions, I can't count them all.

You're assuming the woman is lying.
You're assuming she will not testify.
You're assuming she will get back with him in the future.
You're assuming she is going to invite the guy over so she can kill him.

Why don't we wait until the OP clears things up a bit about the people involved?
Yes but after having seen it dozens or hundreds of times, it is certainly a safe way to bet what the results will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiskyT View Post
According to the sex crimes investigation training I received, 50% of all reports of sex crimes are bogus. According to my personal expirience, the number is higher. .... If you don't think that will result in the party that supplied the gun and training to be interviewed, deposed and called to testify, you are half a bubble off...

y

If you supplied the gun and she kills him and you don't think you will be up to your ears in interviews, statements, etc. half a bubble is probably kind.

I am sure my limited experience is to small to draw any valid statistical conclusions, but I have responded initially to a couple hundred rape/sexual battery calls. I have been to more plane crashes than I have been a call in which a total stranger actually raped the victim. (Not suggesting that a known person cannot commit a rape.) I have been to more plane crashes than I have been to court to testify in a sexual battery case.
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Old 07-02-2011, 15:28   #98
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If those 18 year old yahoos over in General Glocking can first learn to shoot using a Glock, so can a woman.
I do not wish to jump into the revolver versus pistol fray, however I would gladly nominate this for the single sentence post of the month award
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Old 07-02-2011, 15:31   #99
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I disagree. The notion that women/ newbs can't learn semi autos is stupid. Can they use a computer? Can they drive a car? Can they do taxes? Then they can load a magazine.
I don't know. Can they drive a car?

General Firearms Forum
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Old 07-02-2011, 15:40   #100
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Its worth it, for her to learn how to use a semi auto. I would tell her to get a Glock 19 and i would show her how to operate it and also take her to the range, etc. My wife never touched a pistol of any kind and had no problem her 1st time at the range with all my Sig's & HK's. She even shot a Springfield TRP 1911 in 45 and did quite well, with no previous experience shooting whatsoever.

Last edited by Comedian; 07-02-2011 at 15:44..
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