Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2012, 21:31   #181
NDCent
Socially Inept
 
NDCent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 3,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
Why not just install it and say nothing about it? I mean, the gun won't have it printed on it. If some firearms examiner wants to go to the trouble of taking the Glock frame apart to see if there is any new part in there, then the FE would have to know what he/she is looking for. Just put it in and tell no one.
I use a minus for carry, but that's me, I'll take my chances if it comes to that. But, anyone given the task to check wouldn't over look something so simple.
__________________
Silvertip® Hollow Points, When You Care Enough To Send The Very Best.
NDCent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 09:12   #182
robhic
Platinum Membership
WOLVERINE!!!!
 
robhic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2,114
I bought a couple of 3.5 connectors from Ghost a year or so ago. They have no "-" markings as do many (most?) other connectors. I've read about dot connectors and minus and plus but my two Ghost (which I subsequently took out anyway) connectors are unmarked.

So I guess it would take a bit of work and a trigger gauge to tell what connector I had installed. Visual only wouldn't be easy. Have others noticed unmarked connectors?
__________________
-- Robert --
NRA Life Member

"Giving Money and Power to Government is Like Giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys" - PJ O'Rourke
robhic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 09:39   #183
FillYerHands
you son of a
 
FillYerHands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kennesaw, GA
Posts: 1,430
So you're willing to bet all the money you and your family will ever have that the lawyer hired by someone you get in an encounter with will have never heard of the "hairpin trigger Glock" ploy, and that his hired Brady Bunch gun expert won't be able to tell a stock connector from a Ghost connector?

All for some almost imperceptible reduction in trigger pull?

I'm not.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Clip? Magazine? Who cares? Take
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Life Member |
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Member
FillYerHands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 10:51   #184
DScottHewitt
EMT-B
 
DScottHewitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Waynesboro, VA
Posts: 29,252
Send a message via AIM to DScottHewitt Send a message via Yahoo to DScottHewitt
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
Why not just install it and say nothing about it? I mean, the gun won't have it printed on it. If some firearms examiner wants to go to the trouble of taking the Glock frame apart to see if there is any new part in there, then the FE would have to know what he/she is looking for. Just put it in and tell no one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FillYerHands View Post
So you're willing to bet all the money you and your family will ever have that the lawyer hired by someone you get in an encounter with will have never heard of the "hairpin trigger Glock" ploy, and that his hired Brady Bunch gun expert won't be able to tell a stock connector from a Ghost connector?

All for some almost imperceptible reduction in trigger pull?

I'm not.
THIS.

In a civil case, a lawyer coming after you is going to do anything he/she can do to prove you shot their "innocent" client {or their "innocent" family member} negligently. Because it equals a pay day for them. {And, although they might not care, for the client}. Guess what? Convincing the jury or judge that you had modified your weapon to have a "hair trigger", makes it a lot easier to convince same that you didn't mean to fire. Which, makes negligence. Which makes money for the lawyer......
__________________
Dear Lord, Thank You for guiding me straight and true through the many obstacles in my path. Thank You for any good that I may have done, I'm so sorry about the bad.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
DScottHewitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 15:28   #185
H&K 4 LIFE
Leonum A Ignis
 
H&K 4 LIFE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 3,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by DScottHewitt View Post
THIS.

In a civil case, a lawyer coming after you is going to do anything he/she can do to prove you shot their "innocent" client {or their "innocent" family member} negligently. Because it equals a pay day for them. {And, although they might not care, for the client}. Guess what? Convincing the jury or judge that you had modified your weapon to have a "hair trigger", makes it a lot easier to convince same that you didn't mean to fire. Which, makes negligence. Which makes money for the lawyer......
Expanding on the logical line of thinking above...

Glock, the manufacturer of the pistol, does not put the minus connector in guns intended for self-defense use. As a company they have established what is an acceptable weight of trigger break for their self-defense handguns, and have taken the strict position that the minus connector is not be used for this purpose.

If a lawyer involved in a wrongful death suit were to refer to Glock, the manufacturer of the pistol, this would be the companies response.

Armorers cannot even obtain the minus connector through Glock (except under limited circumstances) and LEO can only obtain them under express written request on department issued letterhead.

Glock does all this because they clearly recognize there is an element of legal liability present here. Why some individuals feel that they know better than the company that produces the pistol, is in retrospect, fairly foolish.

You state...
Quote:
Why not just install it and say nothing about it?
...and yet anyone using a simple trigger pull gauge would be made instantly aware of a trigger break weight that differs from factory specifications.

Finally, if you require a minus connector to shoot your Glock well enough to defend yourself then you need to get more training. Think software, not hardware.
__________________
"Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
H&K 4 LIFE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 16:08   #186
Glockdude1
CLM Number 185
Federal Member
 
Glockdude1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Beaumont,Texas
Posts: 27,685


__________________
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Glockdude1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 17:34   #187
4516
On the Beach
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 83
They have a scale they can attach to the trigger to see how many lbs it takes to fire. Takes 15 sec to set up and test.
4516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 19:53   #188
SouthernBoyVA
Senior Member
 
SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Western Prince William County, VA
Posts: 3,196
This topic has been dragged through the mud so many times and the one thing that seems to always be left out is this. How your modified Glock is going to serve you in a court of law when you have been charged with some degree of homicide is going to depend upon the state in which you live, its laws regarding the use of deadly force, and how your defense is presented under those laws. Your best friend is an attorney who has experience is such cases and who knows how to defend you. Don't just go with an attorney recommended by "Uncle Bob" or some schmoe who does pro bono work . How do you know how good he is?

About 4 years ago, I posed this very same question/scenario to just such an attorney who is well known in the OC gun culture in my state. His response was that whether or not you have modified the trigger, installed comp sights, or anything else is not going to make any difference. What IS going to make a difference and what IS going to be the 800 pound gorilla (his words) in the room is whether or not your actions were excusable... i.e., was it a good shoot.

We have what's known as an "affirmative defense" in Virginia. This means that your attorney is likely to put you on the stand and ask you if you shot Mr. Smith to which you would answer in the affirmative. He will probably ask that given the same set of circumstances and knowing what you knew, would you do the same thing again, to which you would again answer in the affirmative. In other words, you will affirm your actions under the instant set of conditions and circumstances. Having done this, a prosecutor is going to have a very hard time trying to show that your actions were negligent or accidental or due to a light trigger since you have already stated that you did what you did deliberately and would do so again.

Over a year ago, I also asked a commonwealth's attorney and a candidate for sheriff in a neighboring county how often do they see lawsuits arising after an acquittal or a no bill. Both said that this was very rare in Virginia and neither could recall any. Incidentally, both of these men were present at a seminar on the use of deadly force which I was attending (my fourth one).

So I would again recommend that if you are serious about this subject, talk to an attorney who knows this subject area intimately. Don't take what you read on websites as gospel. Do your own research.
__________________
In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
SouthernBoyVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 20:20   #189
cowboy1964
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 15,427
Good shoots aren't the point. Negligent discharges, accidental double taps, accidents period, are.

Does Glock not specifically admonish that the light connector is to be used only for competition or not to be used for self-defense? Would you really want that fact coming up in court?

I wonder how many LE agencies use the light trigger? Just sayin'.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 06-22-2012 at 20:22..
cowboy1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 20:23   #190
H&K 4 LIFE
Leonum A Ignis
 
H&K 4 LIFE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 3,381
SouthernBoyVA,

I agree with a good deal of what you have written.

It behooves any and all of us who carry a handgun for personal protection to make themselves at least known to a competent defense attorney who is well versed in the legal matters of personal protection. Someone who can be called upon should the (unfortunate) circumstance ever arise that their service is required.

What remains as irrefutable fact is that by not modifying the trigger breakage weight on your carry pistol you entirely avoid the possibility of this issue ever being raised in a court of law.

We need to keep foremost in our minds that while there is such a thing as a justifiable shooting in self-defense, there is no such thing as a justifiable accident. In addition, the standards for prosecution in a civil suit are much lower then those in criminal proceedings.

Assume that everything can, and perhaps will, be called into question at some point.
__________________
"Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
H&K 4 LIFE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 21:15   #191
SouthernBoyVA
Senior Member
 
SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Western Prince William County, VA
Posts: 3,196
cowboy1964 and H&K 4 LIFE;

Gentlemen, I fear you've missed my point a bit. cowboy1964 said,

"Good shoots aren't the point. Negligent discharges, accidental double taps, accidents period, are."

He is wrong in the context of my post. A deliberate shooting is neither negligent nor accidental. It is, by definition, an event that was intended and meant to occur. If you are charged with negligent homicide or some degree of manslaughter due to an accident, that is NOT what I was discussing in my post. Once again, I was talking about a victim who deliberately and willfully uses deadly force in his defense. That can never be misconstrued as negligent or accidental.

You folks are looking at this through the eyes of those who perhaps live in states where this might pose a problem. In my state, it doesn't. Whether or not you have installed a 3.5 connector with a 6 pound trigger spring is not going to have any effect on you should you be charged, as long as your actions can be affirmed to have been excusable.
__________________
In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?
SouthernBoyVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 21:29   #192
NDCent
Socially Inept
 
NDCent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 3,009
Another hair trigger debate.

What if I carry a G35 with a factory installed minus connector? How about a 1911 with a 3 pound trigger? Do I need to have a heavy trigger put in my 870 or AR to use them for self defense? Is there a "standard" trigger guide so I know what the cutoff limit is for self defense? Do all manufacturers follow the same guide for SD weapons? Is there a list of weapons and triggers that are "OK", manufactured to self defense specs?

I wonder if Glock recommends not using the minus connector for self defense because gun owners were accidentally shooting themselves, or other people? Was the NY1 & 2 trigger deal about revolver trained officers shooting themselves while reholstering, or shooting the bad guy by accident?

What about zombie bullets, or punisher grips? If I have a wreck can I be sued for having non factory tires and wheels? How about aftermarket brakes?

If you pull the trigger on a weapon it's suppose to go off, if not, I don't need it. If I have to shoot someone the prosecutor is probably going to be asking why I shot the person 15 times, not about the poundage of my trigger. I'll simply respond... I shot him 15 times because I was saving my spare magazine incase he had friends.

So, all safety Sally's unite! You can blame it on the holster, trigger, training, whatever. IMO, if it's working correctly it's going to go bang because the trigger is pulled, period. A good shoot is a good shoot, unless you're GZ, and a 15 pound trigger won't turn a bad shoot into a good one.

I carry several different weapons for SD. The safety Sally's can argue you should only carry and train with one weapons platform for SD. How boring.
__________________
Silvertip® Hollow Points, When You Care Enough To Send The Very Best.
NDCent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 22:10   #193
Glockdude1
CLM Number 185
Federal Member
 
Glockdude1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Beaumont,Texas
Posts: 27,685


Why is it, only when a PISTOL is used, trigger pull, becomes a subject you can be "sued for" in court.

BUT, when talking about a RIFLE or a SHOTGUN being used, TRIGGER PULL, is NEVER mentioned.

Why??????????

__________________
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Glockdude1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 22:45   #194
NDCent
Socially Inept
 
NDCent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 3,009
I think it's because most people carry a pistol for self defense. Rifles, shotguns, knives or clubs aren't used as often, or at least aren't as newsworthy.

The best way to keep from getting sued for using a weapon for SD is don't carry one.

With people buying coffee, spilling it on themselves, then suing because it's hot, you can understand people being leery.

I agree, there's no need in giving the other side ammunition to use against you, but IMO you're just as likely to shoot a bystander from a poorly placed shot with a heavy trigger as you are from a light trigger. However, the only opinions that matter are the jurors.

I've seen people that would pull a 50 pound trigger if you holler BOO! And I've seen people that normally wouldn't have an ND during super high stress with a 1911.

It doesn't matter how idiot proof it's made, someone will make a better idiot.
__________________
Silvertip® Hollow Points, When You Care Enough To Send The Very Best.

Last edited by NDCent; 06-22-2012 at 22:47..
NDCent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 22:51   #195
Glockdude1
CLM Number 185
Federal Member
 
Glockdude1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Beaumont,Texas
Posts: 27,685


Quote:
Originally Posted by NDCent View Post
It doesn't matter how idiot proof it's made, someone will make a better idiot.
__________________
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Glockdude1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 05:57   #196
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,034
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrFreak View Post
I just bought the Ghost 5.0 tactical for my G23. With a .25 cent polish it will be great for CC.
Do you have a link to the .25 trigger job?
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 11:43   #197
FuturePharmD
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 74
I carry a 36 and the "-" connector and ny1 spring made my trigger so much smoother and I don't feel that it removed trigger "weight" I have swapped them out before at the range to get a good before and after comparison and I really feel that all this did was make my trigger pull smoother and more crisp break.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
FuturePharmD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 14:19   #198
ZO6Vettever
Senior Member
 
ZO6Vettever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 370
After about 2500 rounds and 4 years of EDC along with numerous "trigger jobs" on my Sigma. My G30 has a perfect carry trigger stock out of the box. Originally I thought I would put the 8.5 lb spring in but it is perfect to me as is.
__________________
Sent from my rotary phone.

Remember, we're all on the same side!

Army Vet Dec 1965 - Dec 1971
ZO6Vettever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 16:14   #199
Happypuppy
Senior Member
 
Happypuppy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: North Puget Sound, WA
Posts: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
Do you have a link to the .25 trigger job?


Sent from my 300 baud modem
Happypuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 16:28   #200
SouthernBoyVA
Senior Member
 
SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Western Prince William County, VA
Posts: 3,196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
Do you have a link to the .25 trigger job?
I just did this to three of my Glocks, all gen3's; two G23's and a G19. I did all three last week. I've been putting this off for years but finally decide, what the hey. I couldn't find my wife's Dremel so I bought one. I knew what to do and I have done complete strips of my Glocks a number of times... especially the frame.

This is a simple job which takes about 1/2 an hour and is well worth your effort. Take your time, examine the parts that need to be polished (I've taken the liberty to list them below), and go for it.
  • Trigger safety block, top and crowned part of the side.
  • Striker lug sear contact point and part that rides on the sear.
  • Outside of the trigger bar (part that contacts the frame).
  • Trigger bar safety block cam (the top part).
  • End of the trigger bar that contacts the connector.
  • Entire cruciform.
  • Connector surface that contacts the trigger bar end and the lip at the top that cams the trigger bar down.
__________________
In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

Last edited by SouthernBoyVA; 06-25-2012 at 16:29..
SouthernBoyVA is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 21:07.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,145
321 Members
824 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31