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Old 06-25-2012, 16:34   #201
SouthernBoyVA
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As for using a 3.5 connector, I have tested five different connectors in my #1 gen3 G23 and for my purposes, have found the Glock 3.5 connector (part #00135) to be the best. The trigger setup I have in both of my gen3 G23's and my gen3 G19 is the smooth faced trigger with contouring work on the trigger safety tang, Glock 3.5 connector, 6 pound trigger spring from GlockParts.com, and the 25 cent trigger job. This returns a digitally measured trigger pull weight of between 4 pounds 14 ounces and 5 pounds 2 ounces.
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Old 06-25-2012, 18:55   #202
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3.5 connector without a NY-1 in a defense gun is begging for a lawsuit. All my Glocks have NY-1's in them.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:32   #203
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Originally Posted by M24C View Post
3.5 connector without a NY-1 in a defense gun is begging for a lawsuit. All my Glocks have NY-1's in them.
This depends upon which state you live in. It is NOT universal. Fortunately for me, I live in Virginia where this is not an issue.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:34   #204
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I use it on ALL my Glocks, all are either for HD or SD.

Never had an issue, keep finger OFF of trigger until ready to go bang and use a GOOD holster that covers trigger area. NOTHING to worry about. ADs from re-holstering are from bad gun handling / training.

Practice, practice, practice will make you just as accurate. I have shot mine like this for years and it is second nature now, just like when we shot double action revolvers.

Sure I shoot better w/ my target .22 also w/ it's hair, single action trigger, but I don't carry it either.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:40   #205
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PS - As a matter of fact, I am MORE comfortable w/ the NY1 + 3.5 connector setup in my Glocks w/ their mid-weight, constant pull all the way through, crisp break trigger than I ever was a traditional double action / single action autos of other makes. As with them having to be ready to make the transition from DA to SA, and then also having to be weary while on the move if the gun was then still on SA after the first DA shot if not decocked. Too much to remember what's going on there under stress for me. W/ the Glock NY1+3.5 conn setup, nothing to remember, no safety, no decocker, just pull, shoot, reholster.

That was what sold me on them (and Glocks in general for that matter), and no mile long, heavy DA pull for every shot like a DA only gun you can't shoot in SA.
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:18   #206
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Originally Posted by M24C View Post
3.5 connector without a NY-1 in a defense gun is begging for a lawsuit. All my Glocks have NY-1's in them.
How many of those lawsuits can you refer to? How about just one?
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Old 06-26-2012, 07:24   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M24C View Post
3.5 connector without a NY-1 in a defense gun is begging for a lawsuit. All my Glocks have NY-1's in them.
Show me a lawsuit based on a 3.5 connector. Don't use the "test case" line.

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Old 06-27-2012, 05:30   #208
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I had a 3.5 connector without a NY1 on my Glock 22.
It was checked out and approved for duty use, when I was going though a LE Academy.


My dad recently switched all his Glocks to the 3.5 with a NY1.
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Old 06-27-2012, 17:54   #209
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Originally Posted by Glockdude1 View Post
Show me a lawsuit based on a 3.5 connector. Don't use the "test case" line.
Show me a LE agency that issues to the rank and file any kind of safetyless gun with a light trigger. Show me where Glock recommends the light trigger for LE and self-defense.

I always have to wonder why anyone would WANT a light trigger on something that if you had to use for real heightens the chance of an accident while under extreme stress or physical altercation. Has nothing to do with legal liability if you want to get right down to it. Why not a 0.5 pound trigger? After all, it won't fire unless you pull the trigger, right?

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Old 06-27-2012, 18:05   #210
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Show me a LE agency that issues to the rank and file any kind of safetyless gun with a light trigger. ?
What is a safetyless gun with a light trigger??

A S&W Revolver 686 with the hammer cocked?

Many L/E agencies issued them for years without any problems.

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Old 06-29-2012, 07:32   #211
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First of all before I give out any case names. The original question on the thread is using a 3.5 connector without a NY-1 it. I don't in fact have installed a 3.5 connector install on any of my Glocks at this time have the standard connector and a NY-1.

Yes I've tried a real light trigger on my 24C, feels great, fine for target shooting. But the issue is dealing with a SD gun. It doesn't matter what I say. It doesn't matter what anybody else says, what matters is what the courts say and manufacturer of the gun says. A lighter trigger can lead to accidental discharges. Glock has said 5.5 lbs for duty. The courts have made true and false statements on "Hair Trigger" to Civilians and Law Enforcement officers alike. If it varies from that right or wrong, that is reality. Whether you shoot better with the lighter trigger or not, will not get you out of the fact your trigger pull is lighter than what Glock says for Duty. That can put you into this category of Accidental Discharges for a Light trigger, with all the stress going on with an incident that person might be involved with.

I can relate to the stress, involving a gun and SD. Luckily I did not have to shoot. 1 against 3 in my own yard and the only thing that stopped it was my Glock 22 they were staring at and backed off. The stress levels are very high. So I can relate to that. I try to practice shooting in high stress. It seems the heavier trigger pull is very manageable when doing that.

I would like to thank personally Massad Ayoob on helping me with the case names. There are more than what I'm going to list.

NY v. Frank Magliato which it does involve a revolver and pulling it for single action. Here is a gun that can it and gets into more trouble for a light trigger pull.

Santibanes v. Tomball TX, involves LEO and in this case it is brought up he modified his Glock 21 and has 3.5 connector in it, (for those whom don't believe they will look at the gun) the emphasis in the case is that it is lighter than duty. He did have other modifications that where ruled not change the trigger function. One what and extended slide stop and the other was the recoil spring changed.

The best as far as I can see, is to have the gun trigger for SD at 5.5 or higher, to avoid adding fuel to any accusation on an Accidental Discharge or any other false allegations associated with a "Hair Trigger". Now a 3.5 and NY-1 makes it around 6 that would be ruled as higher than duty.

That is a little of why I said, "3.5 connector without a NY-1 in a defense gun is begging for a lawsuit." You don't need to give any angle for suit. That will not stop them from trying, but you don't need to give any advantage to be held liable.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:41   #212
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That is a little of why I said, "3.5 connector without a NY-1 in a defense gun is begging for a lawsuit." You don't need to give any angle for suit. That will not stop them from trying, but you don't need to give any advantage to be held liable.
The two cases you mentioned were AD's and had nothing to do with self-defense. I think that we all are in agreement that if one has his finger on the trigger, the lighter the pull the more likely an AD to happen. When someone unjustly kills another, it doesn't require a modified weapon to bring on a lawsuit.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:57   #213
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If you cannot shoot a standard Glock trigger pull well enough for SD, like hundreds of thousands of other people, then putting in a lighter trigger setup will not change that. And getting on the stand to discuss why you bought a gun that you could not shoot well, and that you are so incompetent with that you have to modify it in a manner prohibited by the factory and virtually all organizations that use the gun (LE, military) really won't sound that good to a jury, IMO. 'nuff said.
I shoot very well with the standard connector, but I shoot better with the 3.5 connector. Is there anything wrong with that? Let's say that I can shoot a four-inch group at 50 feet with the standard connector, but the group shrinks to three-inches with the 3.5 connector. Which connector would the responsible man use? And no, no one will ever successfully accuse me of "accidentally" shooting anyone.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:13   #214
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I've had this discussion a few times. I put a 3.5 in all my Glocks and always have. I shoot better with them. I've had 1911's that came with 2.5# triggers stock. If a lighter trigger helps make me a better more accurate shooter, then it helps me keeps rounds on target on assists in not shooting friendlies. You're carrying a gun to protect yourself in a life or death situation. Do whatever makes YOU a better shooter and YOU'RE comfortable with.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:42   #215
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serious question for CHL holders:

i've had my chl for almost 4 years now. carried several different guns on different occasions but pretty much carried 100% of the time. all of my handguns have always been unmodified internally. neither the fire control group nor the triggers were ever messed with. and the reason i didnt mod them was to avoid any extra legal ramifications on top of trying to convince a grand jury my shooting a bad guy was justified.

does my concern have any validity? i'm in TX by the way.
Maybe. Maybe not.

If you intentionally shoot a person and it is clearly a justified shooting, nobody in the criminal justice system is ever going to ask about your trigger.

If you are sued by a person you shot, or if you end up being charged with a crime, that could be another story. I'd say the most likely place for the trigger issue to come up is in a civil suit (however, you have some immunity in Texas, so I'm not talking about how likely you are to get sued or have it progress very far). In a civil suit, if immunity doesn't bar it for some reason, an attorney will look for any small detail that can make you look negligent or reckless. Let's say you are on the sidewalk and a nut points a gun at you and one of your shots hits somebody down the street behind him...you have a problem and the trigger of your gun could be relevant.

On the flip side, a lighter trigger could easily be explained for the opposite purpose. Yesterday an attorney in my office made the observation that the NYPD just shot 9 civilians they didn't mean to shoot because they have those ridiculous NY triggers in their Glocks. You can bet that the "safer" heavy trigger is about to be a liability issue for them. If any part of the case gets to a trial, you can bet somebody will be testifying that they could have kept their shots on target better with a lighter trigger and the NY trigger is unsafe.

So - it's very unlikely trigger weight will ever come up. I have seen it discussed in court one time, in a robbery where I was the firearms expert witness for the defense. But the trigger on that gun was stock (Glock 19) so it was just mentioned by a prosecution expert who didn't really test it.

It might come up. It's not very likely to come up. if it does come up, however, it will be in a case where you already have a legal problem and it could make it worse.

It's awfully easy to shoot a gun with a stock trigger, so I don't lighten them, even for competition. If you need a lighter trigger to hit your target, you are better off learning to shoot better and forgetting the equipment fixes. If your trigger is really that bad, you are carrying the wrong gun.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:46   #216
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This comes up every so often now that we should have stickies on top of stickies

I'm not aware of one state that has a law on gun modifications and that includes Florida. If gun mods where illegal than night lights, size of caliber, magazine capacity, glow in the dark sights, CW gun training, tactical pants and every thing in between, could be questioned.

Please name me one case, where a gun trigger mod, turned a legal self-defense from legal to illegal?
Nobody claims modifying your trigger is "illegal."

"Illegal" has nothing to do with whether you lose a lawsuit and everything you own.
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Old 08-28-2012, 13:08   #217
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Maybe. Maybe not.

If you intentionally shoot a person and it is clearly a justified shooting, nobody in the criminal justice system is ever going to ask about your trigger.

If you are sued by a person you shot, or if you end up being charged with a crime, that could be another story. I'd say the most likely place for the trigger issue to come up is in a civil suit (however, you have some immunity in Texas, so I'm not talking about how likely you are to get sued or have it progress very far). In a civil suit, if immunity doesn't bar it for some reason, an attorney will look for any small detail that can make you look negligent or reckless. Let's say you are on the sidewalk and a nut points a gun at you and one of your shots hits somebody down the street behind him...you have a problem and the trigger of your gun could be relevant.

On the flip side, a lighter trigger could easily be explained for the opposite purpose. Yesterday an attorney in my office made the observation that the NYPD just shot 9 civilians they didn't mean to shoot because they have those ridiculous NY triggers in their Glocks. You can bet that the "safer" heavy trigger is about to be a liability issue for them. If any part of the case gets to a trial, you can bet somebody will be testifying that they could have kept their shots on target better with a lighter trigger and the NY trigger is unsafe.

So - it's very unlikely trigger weight will ever come up. I have seen it discussed in court one time, in a robbery where I was the firearms expert witness for the defense. But the trigger on that gun was stock (Glock 19) so it was just mentioned by a prosecution expert who didn't really test it.

It might come up. It's not very likely to come up. if it does come up, however, it will be in a case where you already have a legal problem and it could make it worse.

It's awfully easy to shoot a gun with a stock trigger, so I don't lighten them, even for competition. If you need a lighter trigger to hit your target, you are better off learning to shoot better and forgetting the equipment fixes. If your trigger is really that bad, you are carrying the wrong gun.
Exactly. I hope the NY Trigger does come up and that range time and tests show that a person, including trained pros, shoot more accurately under stress with a trigger that is easier to control.
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Old 08-28-2012, 19:08   #218
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If it's legal, it's appropriate.

Yes?
Is it legal to fix or modify the brakes on your car? Sure. But when your brakes fail and you wipe out the little short bus full of "special needs" kids, what's your defense going to be?

It'll be easy to hang a negligence charge on you and I'll bet dollars to donuts that in every state of the union there are laws that state reckless & negligent acts + death of a human being = manslaughter.
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Old 08-28-2012, 19:14   #219
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Strawman Alert! As has been pointed out numerous times by folks who have actually done it, a modification is is not going to be the independent cause of a conviction. However, it can be one variable among many, and it is a variable where the cost almost always outweighs the benefit. Rarely will a single issue get a person convicted, it is almost always a combination of issues. And even if one does not get convicted it doesn't mean there haven't been problems.
Everybody needs to read and re-read what Dave Armstrong has written until you understand this 100%.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:37   #220
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Is it legal to fix or modify the brakes on your car? Sure. But when your brakes fail and you wipe out the little short bus full of "special needs" kids, what's your defense going to be?

It'll be easy to hang a negligence charge on you and I'll bet dollars to donuts that in every state of the union there are laws that state reckless & negligent acts + death of a human being = manslaughter.
There is no comparison between an excusable homicide and manslaughter due to reckless endangerment or negligence. One is deliberate and the other two are questionable.

Whether or not modifying a carry firearm is going to be a potential liability is going to depend upon the state in which you reside. My advise to this question, which seems to come up frequently, is to consult an attorney in your state who has experience in defending victims who have used deadly force against an assailant(s).

This is what I did. In my state, whether or not you have modified the trigger or anything else on the gun is not going to be an issue. What IS going to be an issue ("the 800 pound gorilla in the room" in his words) will be whether or not your actions were excusable. A prosecutor is not going to be able to argue that your actions were reckless or due to negligence when you freely admit that you shot Mr. Smith and that under the same set of circumstances, you would do the same thing again.
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