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Old 08-31-2012, 15:45   #241
Bren
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Originally Posted by Merkavaboy View Post
In California we are covered criminally by PC 195.1, Excusible Homicide. Civilly we're Boned, just like everyone else.
Not everyone else. In many states, like KY and Florida, if you are justified in using force, then you are also immune from suit and if someone sues you and you are determined to be justifed, they have to pay for your attorney and costs.
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Old 08-31-2012, 17:28   #242
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Not everyone else. In many states, like KY and Florida, if you are justified in using force, then you are also immune from suit and if someone sues you and you are determined to be justifed, they have to pay for your attorney and costs.
Yeah, I should have said "almost everyone". But let's not forget the possibility of a federal civil rights lawsuit, especially with certain "minority" groups.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:48   #243
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Originally Posted by Merkavaboy View Post
Yeah, I should have said "almost everyone". But let's not forget the possibility of a federal civil rights lawsuit, especially with certain "minority" groups.
While that is possible, if you were tried and acquitted in a criminal trial and it was clear your actions were excusable, a civil case is going to be hard to mount. Unfortunately in your example, I fear there is a greater chance of something like that happening than in a "normal" suit. Not only is this a shame, but it flies in the face of the Constitution.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:02   #244
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Btw

I shot my G17 with the 3.5 connector in a small shooting match in Keene, NH. I fired 55 rounds with no ADs or NDs.
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:16   #245
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Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
I shoot very well with the standard connector, but I shoot better with the 3.5 connector. Is there anything wrong with that? Let's say that I can shoot a four-inch group at 50 feet with the standard connector, but the group shrinks to three-inches with the 3.5 connector. Which connector would the responsible man use? And no, no one will ever successfully accuse me of "accidentally" shooting anyone.
Is it worth the questioning for such a small gain ?
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:23   #246
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Originally Posted by Glockbuster View Post
Is it worth the questioning for such a small gain ?
Yes, it is. If I can hit a 3-inch wide target at 50 feet with my G17 (with 3.5 connector), rather than 4-inch wide target, then it is worth it.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:33   #247
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If you shoot better with the 3.5 lb connector, then that is a very good reason to use it. If a defence attorney or prosecutor asks you why you have a 3.5 lb connector, you can truthfully say that you shoot better with the 3.5 lb connector.

"nuff said.


In a situation where the shooting is legally justified, and “accidental/negligent discharge” is not at issue, how would a Prosecutor’s question concerning “why you have a 3.5 lb connector” be relevant and admissible? In my opinion, a competent defense attorney would have anticipated that line of questioning and filed a pretrial Motion In Limine, precluding the Prosecutor from asking that type of question.

But then, I believe that far too many attorneys are lazy, incompetent and have no business litigating civil and/or criminal cases. On the whole, I am fairly contemptuous of the competency of the legal profession. A lot of attorneys take cases because the cases pay money and the fact that the attorney is not sufficiently experienced and competent in the relevant area of law, unfortunately, rarely enters into their decision making process and the poor unsuspecting/ignorant client gets screwed.

RJ

Last edited by RJ's Guns; 09-15-2012 at 12:34..
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Old 09-15-2012, 13:18   #248
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Originally Posted by RJ's Guns View Post
In a situation where the shooting is legally justified, and “accidental/negligent discharge” is not at issue, how would a Prosecutor’s question concerning “why you have a 3.5 lb connector” be relevant and admissible? In my opinion, a competent defense attorney would have anticipated that line of questioning and filed a pretrial Motion In Limine, precluding the Prosecutor from asking that type of question.

But then, I believe that far too many attorneys are lazy, incompetent and have no business litigating civil and/or criminal cases. On the whole, I am fairly contemptuous of the competency of the legal profession. A lot of attorneys take cases because the cases pay money and the fact that the attorney is not sufficiently experienced and competent in the relevant area of law, unfortunately, rarely enters into their decision making process and the poor unsuspecting/ignorant client gets screwed.

RJ
One almost has to have a law degree to read and understand this . . . .
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Old 09-17-2012, 13:27   #249
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One almost has to have a law degree to read and understand this . . . .

I will try to clarify what I am saying;

In a situation where the shooting is legally justified (and that depends on the particular facts of the case and the law in the jurisdiction where the shooting occurred) and the shooter INTENDED to shoot the bad guy, and "accidental discharge", is not at issue (such as the shooter did not INTEND to shoot the bad guy, for example, the weapon was fired"accidentally") how would it be legally relevant and admissible at trial, how much, or how little, physical effort it takes to pull the trigger. If the shooter INTENDED to fire the firearm, how is it relevant and admissible,whether it took 3/10 of a pound or 30 pounds of pressure to pull the trigger?The relevant issues at trial are the shooter’s INTENT and whether or not the shooting is legally justified, and not the amount of effort, or lack thereof, that it took to pull the trigger.

The purpose of a Motion In Limine is keep out irrelevant and prejudicial information. If the Court Grants the Motion In Limine, (and I cannot understand why, in the situation I address above, that the Court would not Grant the Motion) the prosecutor cannot raise or refer to the prohibited areas during Opening or Closing, nor ask witnesses such questions or refer to such prohibited issues in the presence of the Jury.

I would be interested to learn, whether or not the attorneys representing the shooters in cases where the amount of effort required to fire the weapon, was admitted into evidence (unless it was a situation where the shooter did not INTEND to fire the weapon and the weapon was discharged"accidentally"), had filed Motion In Limines addressing those issues concerning the amount of effort required to fire the weapon (and I would be highly critical of any attorney that failed to do so). If so, I would be even more interested to learn the Court's basis for denying the motion.
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Old 09-17-2012, 15:24   #250
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
I won't be surprised if quite a few people say they use that combo. I've seen at least one guy on YouTube say it.

How tight a group do you need for a defensive pistol? A hair trigger is always going to be a better shooter. Doesn't mean it's a good idea for carry.
a hair trigger lmao , I bet you gonna vote for Obama
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Old 09-17-2012, 21:44   #251
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I added a "-" connector to my new G22 gen3 purchased Jan this year.

The stock gun and connector was reading between 6lbs and 7lbs on my Lyman trigger pull gauge. Unacceptable.

With the Glock "-" connector the Lyman gauge is reading 5lbs 1oz reliably with a 4oz drift. This feels much better now the trigger is consistent and has definitely improved my grouping.

The main reason for purchase of this gun was for GSSF matches, but I would not hesitate to carry it.
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Old 09-21-2012, 14:43   #252
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I've tried just about every trigger configuration available in a Glock including many of the aftermarket ones and I always come back to the stock 5-6 pound trigger with the 25-cent trigger job. It's true that there are crisper, smoother, (whatever your after) configurations out there but for an all around trigger I like it the best.
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Old 09-21-2012, 15:20   #253
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Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I think Glocks should be carried 100% stock. Even a thing like a connector swap has its down sides. There's the one in a million chance that some prosecutor might hit you with an accidental death suit (saying you ACCIDENTALLY fired when you fired INTENTIONALLY to save your life). . . .
First, if you do no touch the trigger, the gun will not fire, even with a magical 3.5 lb connector.

Second, prosecutors do not sue anyone for anything.
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Last edited by tslex; 09-21-2012 at 15:22..
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Old 09-21-2012, 15:23   #254
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If the safety tang is cut flush to the trigger face how does the gun fire. Do you mean some how it is pinned like the grip safty on a 1911?

Refering to a previous post where person said they shaved the safty tang down to the trigger face. Should have included the post.

Last edited by RM686; 09-21-2012 at 15:28.. Reason: to make better reason for the post
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Old 09-21-2012, 15:47   #255
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I use the 3.5 and NY-1 setup in ALL my glocks except the 10mm. Might later install one in it to. Used that setup for years in IDPA to.

Mucho better for CCW, especially when I carry my sub-compact Glocks in the appendix postion with a Fist IWB holster.

Never ever had an issue with it.

Deaf
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:57   #256
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I have a Gen 4 Glock 19. I shoot at the range as often as money permits. It's also my EDC, because I have first hand experience with being robbed while I was on crutches.

I have my gun set up the way I want it and shoot it best. I use a 3.5 connector because it works better for me. Imaginary scenarios of over zealous prosecutors wont help protect me. Having a fine weapon that I shoot well goes a long way towards assuring I die of natural causes.

That said, having worked in the New Mexico prison system, I could get better healthcare in jail than I can on Medicare. Not to mention a gated community with 24 hour armed security, satelite TV, a full gym, library, 3 meals per day, all free.

And all the conjecture about accidental discharge is moot, because the same imaginary over zealous prosecutor could ask why you didn't install a "Siderlock" trigger as I have.
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Old 09-22-2012, 19:40   #257
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I toyed with the idea of installing a NY-1 trigger but decided to stick to my stock Glock set-up.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" makes sense to me, especially with regard to legal ramifications should I ever need to use my Glock to defend myself against a real or potentially deadly attack.
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Old 09-22-2012, 20:26   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unit1069 View Post
I toyed with the idea of installing a NY-1 trigger but decided to stick to my stock Glock set-up.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" makes sense to me, especially with regard to legal ramifications should I ever need to use my Glock to defend myself against a real or potentially deadly attack.

NY1 with a 3.5 connector is approved (even for Law Enforcement) to carry, so there would be no legal ramifications.

I think it just boils down to what works best for you. In my case, it's the 3.5 connector all the way!
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:36   #259
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Originally Posted by Dakota Shooter View Post
NY1 with a 3.5 connector is approved (even for Law Enforcement) to carry, so there would be no legal ramifications.

I think it just boils down to what works best for you. In my case, it's the 3.5 connector all the way!
Wow! Didn't even think of the legality of it, but just yesterday installed the 3.5 connector with NY1 spring in my G23. Does the law vary by state on this? I CCW here in Ohio.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:55   #260
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Originally Posted by M24C View Post
3.5 connector without a NY-1 in a defense gun is begging for a lawsuit. All my Glocks have NY-1's in them.
A modified trigger is a modified trigger. Obviously, if somebody shot when they didn't mean to, the 3.5 connector without the NY1 is going to be a liability issue. However, the same could come from the heavier/altered trigger pull with the NY1 - for example, if you miss the person you are shooting at and hit a bystander, as in the recent shooting at the empire state building.

I'm not sure you guys really get how this works. If you do something that is clearly legal, like a clear self-defense shooting, nobody is going to test or even ask about your trigger. If you do something that is questionable or wrong, like a negligent discharge that hits somebody or missing and hitting a bystander, you are going to have to deal with attorneys - prosecutor/plaintiff's attorney/both. When that happens, especially if it's a civil case and you have money, property or insurance, you can bet the gun will be examined by a paid expert and a big deal will be made about your modified trigger, regardless of whether it is heavy or light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glockdude1 View Post
Show me a lawsuit based on a 3.5 connector. Don't use the "test case" line.


Nobody who knows anything about law is saying you will be prosecuted or sued just ebcause of the trigger - in the real world, you get sued or prosecuted, then the other side uses the trigger as an additional piece of evidence to convince a jury to decide against you.

In short - both the "light trigger doesn't matter" and the "heavy trigger is safer" guys are equally wrong.
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