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Old 07-17-2011, 09:15   #161
SouthernBoyVA
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An attempt was made to hijack this Carry Issues thread and turn it into a personal attack on a GT member, Mas Ayoob. It was started as a personal attack, not a discussion of his opinions. That's trolling, folks.

Sadly responding to that attack, other GT members were caught up in the trolling. That's not good.

This kind of behavior has no place in civil discussions about carry issues.

Now, if a member posts and makes a point you disagree with, address the point and justify your position. If a member is on record as having a position on the topic of the thread, state that position, address the point and justify your own position.

But if all you want to do is demean, insult and attack that person, no matter who that person is, instead of attacking the person's positions and opinion, you need to find another forum. If you want to be the playground bully, GT, and especially Carry Issues, is not for you.

If you want to discuss Mas Ayoob's well known position on carrying with a lighter trigger weight, discuss it. That is the topic of this thread. If you just don't like him and you want to recruit other members to your club, do it somewhere else. That's not this thread's topic.
Russ, it seems that this has been happening more and more on these forums. For whatever reason, some of the folks appear to have an axe to grind and have no compunction about calling someone on things and getting personal. It's fine to have an opposing view and to voice it but damn, leaving the arena of civility in an attempt to stamp one's opinion on the foreheads of other members leaves a lot to be desired.

I am in no way patronizing you with this. I would like to see members police themselves, but I fear some just will not do this.
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:03   #162
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3.5 pounder here. With an empty chamber too.
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:39   #163
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
I should clarify something I wrote to which your post above responds. The Smith and Wesson M&P is classed by Smith and Wesson as a DAO action design. I don't see how this can be because the trigger only releases the striker which is held in full cock until release. But they do refer to it as a DAO design.
So, it is striker fired too. I think from the perspective of a gun company, they have to keep these product definitions real simple for marketing to the general public and for legal reasons.

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You're right. "Hair triggers" (which is a misnomer) and Glocks don't share the same page together. You can make a Glock have a very light trigger, but in the classic sense of a "hair trigger" designation, not quite. I would not want to take any of my Glocks under four measured pounds on their triggers. My primary 3G G23 has a 4 1/2 pound trigger and for my purposes, that really works well. The mods gave me what I was looking for and this gun is reliable and predictable.
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:57   #164
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Look folks, this thread is becoming more trouble than it's worth.

Stay on topic.
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:25   #165
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So, it is striker fired too. I think from the perspective of a gun company, they have to keep these product definitions real simple for marketing to the general public and for legal reasons.


Good point.

I was watching a video set I have about SD handgun training last night (four DVD's in the set). In one of them, the two instructors are discussing different action types for the viewing audience.. not the class. One instructor mentions, "double actions, single actions, and constant actions". I have never heard of constant action handguns and couldn't begin to guess what he might have had in mind. I guess there is no guarantee that SD instructors are going to know in intimate detail things they really should know in order to both answer class questions and convey meaningful and correct information.

As for using a 3.5 connector in my Glocks, I have installed this in four of my carry Glocks, three of which have a Glock 3.5 connector, part #00135, in them. A few hours ago, I swapped out my trigger spring in my 3G G19 for a Wolf 6-pound spring I had laying around. I know that there has been much discussion and arguing regarding the potential legal and civil ramifications tied to modifying one's SD handgun. My take on this is pretty clear. You state and its laws and cases should be your guide. If this is a real possibility, contact an attorney who is experienced in cases of self defense. If you state does not offer an affirmative defense or have a Castle law in place, you are best served by leaving your firearm along and as it was designed by the manufacturer.
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Old 07-17-2011, 17:40   #166
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I know that there has been much discussion and arguing regarding the potential legal and civil ramifications tied to modifying one's SD handgun. My take on this is pretty clear. You state and its laws and cases should be your guide. If this is a real possibility, contact an attorney who is experienced in cases of self defense. If you state does not offer an affirmative defense or have a Castle law in place, you are best served by leaving your firearm along and as it was designed by the manufacturer.
I would add that it goes beyond your state laws and cases, as courts often use precedent established outside of their immediate area. And as always it is far more than the win/lose of a criminal or civil case that one should be aware of. The potential cost of having to have this issue prepped by your attorney and an expert witness can be quite high even if it is just glossed over in court.
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Old 07-17-2011, 18:24   #167
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Well

If you shoot better with the 3.5 lb connector, then that is a very good reason to use it. If a defence attorney or prosecutor asks you why you have a 3.5 lb connector, you can truthfully say that you shoot better with the 3.5 lb connector.

"nuff said.

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Old 07-17-2011, 21:17   #168
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I would add that it goes beyond your state laws and cases, as courts often use precedent established outside of their immediate area. And as always it is far more than the win/lose of a criminal or civil case that one should be aware of. The potential cost of having to have this issue prepped by your attorney and an expert witness can be quite high even if it is just glossed over in court.
I vacillated back and forth on this issue for a bit until I spoke with an attorney who holds seminars in the use of deadly force in my state. His council was informative and helped ease my concerns. I also posed a question to a county commonwealth's attorney about civil suits following SD shootings where there was an acquittal for in a trial for this. He told me that civil suits against someone who has been found to have committed an excusable homicide in Virginia are rare. This is good to know.
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:58   #169
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If you shoot better with the 3.5 lb connector, then that is a very good reason to use it. If a defence attorney or prosecutor asks you why you have a 3.5 lb connector, you can truthfully say that you shoot better with the 3.5 lb connector.

"nuff said.

If you cannot shoot a standard Glock trigger pull well enough for SD, like hundreds of thousands of other people, then putting in a lighter trigger setup will not change that. And getting on the stand to discuss why you bought a gun that you could not shoot well, and that you are so incompetent with that you have to modify it in a manner prohibited by the factory and virtually all organizations that use the gun (LE, military) really won't sound that good to a jury, IMO. 'nuff said.

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Old 07-18-2011, 11:14   #170
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If you shoot better with the 3.5 lb connector, then that is a very good reason to use it. If a defence attorney or prosecutor asks you why you have a 3.5 lb connector, you can truthfully say that you shoot better with the 3.5 lb connector.

"nuff said.

Changing to a lighter connector as a preference is one thing, changing because you cant shoot as well with a standard connector means you need more training or a different gun in my honest opinion.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:04   #171
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Changing to a lighter connector as a preference is one thing, changing because you cant shoot as well with a standard connector means you need more training or a different gun in my honest opinion.
Sorry, I was theoretically thinking of the 3.5-lb connector as a quick fix to someone's inabibillty to shoot well with the standard connector. I shoot well with both connectors, but I prefer the smoother trigger pull that the 3.5 offers.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:19   #172
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Sorry, I was theororetically thinking of the 3.5-lb connector as a quick fix to someone's inabibillty to shoot well with the standard connector. I shoot well with both connectors, but I prefer the smoother trigger pull that the 3.5 offers.
I understand. I shoot great with the standard connector but prefer a better trigger on my guns.
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Old 07-18-2011, 13:12   #173
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Sorry, I was theororetically thinking of the 3.5-lb connector as a quick fix to someone's inabibillty to shoot well with the standard connector. I shoot well with both connectors, but I prefer the smoother trigger pull that the 3.5 offers.
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I understand. I shoot great with the standard connector but prefer a better trigger on my guns.
I agree with these guys.
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Old 07-18-2011, 14:37   #174
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and that you are so incompetent with that you have to modify it in a manner prohibited by the factory and virtually all organizations that use the gun (LE, military) really won't sound that good to a jury, IMO. 'nuff said.
The factory does not prohibit. The 34 & 35 both come with the 3.5 connector. My carry piece is a G23 that was LE trade from the Missouri state highway patrol and had 3.5 connector in it when I bought it. I see no reason to change it. My G22 has a 5.5 and will stay that way. I do agree that the glock trigger takes getting used to though. It took lots of practice to get as good as I am with my Berretta or SW revolver.
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Old 07-18-2011, 14:50   #175
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The factory does not prohibit.
Yes, the factory does. That is why it is a controlled part and why you cannot buy one without some very specific conditions. The factory prohibits armorers from installing the part under other than those specific conditions under penalty of losing your certification.
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The 34 & 35 both come with the 3.5 connector.
And are designated as target/competition use, not SD.
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My carry piece is a G23 that was LE trade from the Missouri state highway patrol and had 3.5 connector in it when I bought it. I see no reason to change it.
Then don't. But I can assure you the gun did not come that way originally except on LE letterhead as part of a particular combo including the NY-1 trigger.

Folks, don't shoot the messenger. This is not what I say is the issue, this is what Glock, Inc. says. If you want to think you know more about building a defensive fighting firearm than Glock, or that it is smart to do something to your gun that virtually every LE organization in the U.S. says not to do because of safety issues, go right ahead. But then don't be surprised if it causes a problem for you in court.

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Old 05-25-2012, 07:54   #176
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I have had a 3.5 connector in my CCW G17 for many years now. No problems at all.
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Old 05-25-2012, 20:31   #177
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Disciplined or not, accidents happen under stress, physical altercations, reholstering, etc.

Why does Glock insist that the light connector is not for duty/defense use? Are they idiots?
The connector does not make your pre-travel any shorter. If your in an altercation, reholstering, stressed, an extra 2 pounds of pressure on the trigger makes no difference.

I like my ghost rocket connector in my G26, and I wouldn't remove it because I'm accustomed to it, and it works well for me.
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Old 05-25-2012, 23:37   #178
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I just bought the Ghost 5.0 tactical for my G23. With a .25 cent polish it will be great for CC.
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Old 06-21-2012, 17:44   #179
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3.5 Connector

Why not just install it and say nothing about it? I mean, the gun won't have it printed on it. If some firearms examiner wants to go to the trouble of taking the Glock frame apart to see if there is any new part in there, then the FE would have to know what he/she is looking for. Just put it in and tell no one.
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Old 06-21-2012, 21:06   #180
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what are you talking about? ... Carry?... Duty?... Home defense? ... again ... what are you talking about?
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