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Old 07-17-2011, 15:25   #1
dwalker84
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Almost got in a gun fight last night.

So last night I decided to take my 8 year old stepson for a walk down to circle-K to get a few things.

We live in an apartment complex, in a very good part of town, where there's rarely any crime. We were heading out the complex and my step son sees something next to a dumpster and wants to check it out with his new surefire flashlight that I bought him. We're standing there looking at a dead snake, and my boy turns and says, "there's someone behind the dumpster." So I kind of peek around the dumpster to look, see two faces looking at us - so I tug on my sons shirt and say lets go.

I hear "What can I help you with?" in a southern accent. My stepson says "Nothing we're okay, thanks." and we start heading towards circle K.

We get back to the complex, and I decide to go check my mail - I had just pulled my mail out of my mailbox and I hear "HEY, HEY YOU, YOU LIVE HERE BOY? HEY!" really aggressive.

(By the way I'm open carrying my g26 appendix because it's hot out and my grip had just been stippled, so my undershirt was protecting my skin)

Theres 2 guys, quickly approaching us, obviously agitated.

The first thing he does is says "IS THAT GUN REGISTERED, YOU ALLOWED TO CARRY THAT GUN, WHY DO YOU HAVE A GUN?" I answered "I'm a law abiding citizen of Arizona, and as such I do not need a permit, nor do I need to 'register' my guns, what can I help you with??"
"WELL I GOT A GUN TOO, I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOUR OUT HERE SNEAKING AROUND WITH A YOUNG BOY!, YOU LIVE HERE? YOU BREAKING INTO CARS? WHERE DO YOU LIVE?? I WAS GOING TO CALL THE COPS BUT WE CAME OUT TO FIND YEH"

The whole time hes yelling I can smell alcohol, it was SO overwhelming on his breath - and I quickly notice he has his left hand on his hip at the 3:30-4:00 position, I can see that there IS a grip there, his hand pressing down on the fabric left a distinct outline of a pistol grip, and a holster buldge under his jeans. At this point I went from high alert to full on SHTF alert. I moved and at the same time grabbed and positioned my son behind me.

My first thought is something along the lines of "This guy is drunk, he thinks he's some kind of pedophile hunting vigilante, out to find trouble and shoot his hand cannon. He obviously doesn't know the laws, probably doesn't know much about guns, I've got more training then him, and hes drunk.. watch the hands.. watch his hands..."

At this point I feel a little better, knowing I have the advantage.

And then I'm thinking "Don't raise your voice, don't get upset, de-escalate the situation and agree with this guy"

I slowly moved my hand up to my pocket (I carry at the 1:30/2ish position appendix, so it was 2-3 inches from my grip just in case.

I explain to him what we were doing, why, and who we were.

He turns to my son and asks, "Are you okay? Is this your daddy? Are you sure you're okay, wheres your mommy?"
My son responds to him in a kind of 'you're an idiot, don't talk to me' kind of tone "Yes hes my stepdad, and I'm okay.. we were just walking..??, which looking back is pretty hilarious.

At this point the guy removes his hand from his hip, and starts to kind of calm down. He explains to us that his son's car is a "high target" for theft, and that he thought we were going to steal someones vehicle (there were no cars anywhere near us at the time). He says "This is my son, so and so - the kid looked SO embarrassed, he had to have been 16-18. He had this "my dad is a complete moron" look on his face. He explained that we looked super suspicious, and again repeated that he didn't call the police, because he wanted to find us first.

Anyways, I don't remember every detail of the conversation but eventually I said we had to go and that was that. I have his apartment number, I think I may mention something to the front office, that there's a vigilante neighborhood watch nutcase that runs around DRUNK with a loaded firearm. I went out with my wife to walk our two dogs, and the guy and his son were in their big truck driving around the apartment complex OUT ON THE PROWL! CATCH THEM SOME BAD GUYZ! They were out there driving around for atleast an hour... pathetic.

I truly believe if I hadn't of handled the conversation the way I did, and acted submissive/calm, that he absolutely would have fired off shots. No doubt in my mind. Absolutely mindblowing this guy..

I remember very clearly picturing my stepson getting shot, and instantly my brain going to "calm him down, calm him down.. de-escalate.."

I'm so shocked - I had alot of trouble sleeping last night from the adrenaline rush. It was a very interesting experience to say the least.

I'm confused as to how he came to the conclusion that he did. Why would someone that was well dressed, and well groomed, OC'ing, be breaking into cars WITH AN 8 YEAR OLD, in a WELL lit area, with NO CARS around to break into. I'm dumbfounded.

And why in god's name would you go out LOOKING to shoot someone, like you're the local sheriff - He didn't know me, if he was SO concerned about me, then the last thing he should have done was track me down. It could have ended ALOT differently for him and his son if I had been the nutcase pedophile car thief gangbanger he thought I was... stupidity.
Scary =(

My wife suggested to leave it alone, and if anything just report it to the office management. Do you guys think I should report it to the police or just leave it be? I do have his apartment number.. I just think his behavior was EXTREMELY dangerous, he was ready and willing to shoot me, no doubt. Whatcha think?

Last edited by dwalker84; 07-17-2011 at 15:35..
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Old 07-17-2011, 15:32   #2
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I am more interested in who was behind the dumpster?
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Old 07-17-2011, 15:36   #3
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You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.
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Old 07-17-2011, 15:39   #4
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People are strange when your a stranger...
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Old 07-17-2011, 15:47   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crsuribe View Post
You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.
I agree with the above post completely and wanna add. This guy is driving around the apartment complex for hour or more doing god knows what. There is good reason to believe he is armed and aggressive he did hunt you down after the fact. He also showed a willingness to shoot someone with out feeling threatened. In his mind maybe he is doing the right thing but how would you feel if someone in the complex got hurt thanks to this guy. At least if you alert the apartment complex or police you might save someone else life or his. The next guy he go's up to might not be as level headed as you. I got a friend who carries and has his permit and I have no question in my mind he would have shot the guy right there as soon as he seen the butt of a gun.
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Old 07-17-2011, 15:50   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crsuribe View Post
You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.
This. You handled it very well and there's no point in trying to figure out what was going on in his booze soaked brain. The only thing I would have done differently is call the cops as soon as the boy was safe. This person should not be allowed to have a weapon. The problem with not calling the cops is it allows him to harm someone else.
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Old 07-17-2011, 15:56   #7
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Open-carrying is a hostile act. Don't do that.
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Old 07-17-2011, 15:56   #8
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Tuscon.... You should have and still should call the police. You have his appt# and a vehicle description.
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Old 07-17-2011, 15:57   #9
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Open-carrying is a hostile act. Don't do that.
Are you being serious? Or have you never been to AZ?
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:21   #10
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If I had to guess he was watching out for the people behind the dumpster while they were hitting the pipe. He was prolly trying to distract you from the drug activity so you didn't call the police.
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:23   #11
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Why you haven't shot him or called the police yet baffles me.
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:30   #12
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I'm confused. So these weren't the same two from behind the dumpster?

And you stated you live in a very good part of town, where there's rarely any crime yet in a short matter of time you come upon 2 faces behind a dumpster at nigh, then you are "chased down by 2 men at least one who is armed, possibly both.

You might want to rethink about your living area.
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:38   #13
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It was him and his son behind the dumpster - They have a wall and gate that lead out to the area where they were. Theres the apartment complex, and then a dentist office/parking lot behind his apartment.

I'm not sure if they were up to no good, or what.

As to the guy who says open carrying is a hostile act, I completely disagree. Maybe in California, or somewhere else, but this is Arizona. Anywhere you go there's SOMEONE open carrying. It's extremely common place here. He would have been agressive and crazy regardless if I had the gun open or not, I actually bet had he not seen the gun when he approached, he would have been more agressive/ballsy - he knew I was armed and on an equal playing field.

On top of that, by open carrying I had the advantage of draw time. He already had his hand on his grip OVER his shirt. He would have had to remove his hand from the grip, pull up his shirt, regrip, draw from BEHIND, and shoot while I had no clothing to mess with at ALL - and having my firearm in the appendix carry position I could have drawn MUCH faster. Also being sober I had the upper hand in reaction time.

This guy had some serious issues. My wife told me to not call the police, but to report it to the apartment complex. Her reasoning was it was around 9:40pm, we had to get my son in bed, and she didn't want me to be up answering questions all night if they had to come out and to start a neighborhood feud after only living here for 4 weeks. I regret not calling as soon as it happened.. oh well, I'm still going to report it to the manager.
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:41   #14
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You could still call the cops?


Good story BTW. Its good to read these and be able to second guess what you should have done. I still think ya did really well, as its easy for us to armchair when we were not in that situation and having to react on the fly.
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:42   #15
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Originally Posted by LongGoneDays View Post
Why you haven't shot him or called the police yet baffles me.
"He says you threatened him with that gun, did he threatening you with his gun? He wants to press charge, do you want to press charges?" maybe says the police officer.

Officer is more than happy to lock up both of them. No, don't call the police. Let your management know.

edit: put statement in quotes

Last edited by kensteele; 07-17-2011 at 18:57..
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:44   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
I'm confused. So these weren't the same two from behind the dumpster?

And you stated you live in a very good part of town, where there's rarely any crime yet in a short matter of time you come upon 2 faces behind a dumpster at nigh, then you are "chased down by 2 men at least one who is armed, possibly both.

You might want to rethink about your living area.
Yes they were the guys behind the dumpster - it was outside the gate to their apartment.

I agree with you, I'm just shocked. Oro Valley in Tucson is considered 'upper middle class' everything is expensive out here, it's very quiet/calm and well taken care of. We have a fire station and sheriffs office half a block from here. We moved here to get away from the ghetto area we lived in prior. The North side of town is by far the safest, nicest, lowest crime rate areas in town.
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Old 07-17-2011, 16:53   #17
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I see this another way.

Guy (a bit drunk) gets fed up with people breaking into his car and he sets up a hidden observation point. Sure enough, two people come 'snooping' around and in his drunken state decides it's more satisfying to come after the potential perps rather than call the cops. Furthermore he sees a man with a child walking around at night doing suspicious things and feels it his duty to make sure the kid isn't with some perv.

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Old 07-17-2011, 16:55   #18
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a couple of undercover hispanic officers walking around the parking lot with bandanas on their heads would quickly end his reign of terror.
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Old 07-17-2011, 17:19   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kensteele View Post
He says you threatened him with that gun, did he threatening you with his gun? He wants to press charge, do you want to press charges?

Officer is more than happy to lock up both of them. No, don't call the police. Let your management know.


So we can put you in the "should have shot him" group.
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Old 07-17-2011, 17:23   #20
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Grab your kid by the hand and walk away, state "I'm calling the police....." That eliminates any bs interrogation, quickdraw issues and lets him know who is "right".

I can see why this guys aggressive attitude had you worried, but the longer you indulge a drunk, the longer something stupid can happen.
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