GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2011, 13:44   #1
lndshark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NOT the PNW (yet)
Posts: 711
PPCT and Straight Batons

It looks like the powers-that-be are talking no more straight baton usage...again. ASPs are issued and from what I hear, that will be the only impact weapon we'll be able to carry. I'm willing to go to bat (Ha! Ha!...sorry ) and try to convince my chief to let us maintain our current standard.

A while back someone mentioned in a post that the PPCT (instructor?) manual made reference to straight batons being less likely to cause substantial injury (I'm paraphrasing here...) than an expandable. Does that ring a bell with anyone? Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the PPCT manual makes no differentiation between straight and expandable when it comes to tactics, right?

If someone knows of what I speak and would be willing to send me copies of the information above, I'd greatly appreciate it. PM me for my city email address. Thank you!
lndshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 15:34   #2
razdog76
Heavy Mettle
 
razdog76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,201
Additionally, there are a few members here that have had, and witnessed dramatic asp failures because they bend with good hits.

I have not had that happen, and have used it to smash a car window open, but I have been considering replacing it with one of the Peacekeeper batons.
__________________
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron
'..You can lead an ass to facts, but you can't make them think...'
razdog76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 16:01   #3
Magicmanmb
Senior Member
 
Magicmanmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coastal, SC area
Posts: 4,064
I've bent two hitting a heavy bag during training. Get the RCB I put one between blocks and it never bent w/250+ on it extended.

Last edited by Magicmanmb; 07-31-2011 at 16:02..
Magicmanmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 17:00   #4
Gangrel
Senior Member
 
Gangrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,010
We have had asps bend. We have also had them actually cut tissue (entirely through the skin down to the muscle).

We mandate straight batons be carried in the car at all times. Collapsibles are a secondary option.
Gangrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 18:44   #5
rubblerubble
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montana
Posts: 56
I took ppct instructor in 2009. You are correct the manuel does say that the straight stick is less likely to cause injuries than expandable. The only diffrence between the straight stick and the expandable in training is drawing it. PPCT seems to be big on where you strike not what you strike with.
rubblerubble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 19:05   #6
SAR
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
SAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: LA LA Land
Posts: 2,564
Don't know where you are or what types of incidents you have to handle, but we have to have straight sticks available for frequent crowd control and skirmish line situations. If you ever anticipate having crowd control issues, even if you anticipate being called in by other jurisdictions for crowd control, remind your managers that you cannot use ASPs for skirmish lines.
__________________
Death is lighter than a feather, while duty is heavier than a mountain.
SAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2011, 19:40   #7
Cochese
CLM Number 209
Most mackinest
 
Cochese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Unmarked Rustbox
Posts: 16,480


Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblerubble View Post
I took ppct instructor in 2009. You are correct the manuel does say that the straight stick is less likely to cause injuries than expandable. The only diffrence between the straight stick and the expandable in training is drawing it. PPCT seems to be big on where you strike not what you strike with.
Wife is a PPCT instructor and she concurs.
__________________
Someone brought that up at a shooting I was involved in. I said he should have stopped. They said "what about Garner v. Tennessee."? I told them, " his name ain't Garner and we ain't in Tennessee!"

-texmex
Cochese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 13:12   #8
Magicmanmb
Senior Member
 
Magicmanmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coastal, SC area
Posts: 4,064
Does anyone have a current copy of the instructors manual they would be willing to loan.
Mine is the original edition like to see what changes if any have been made. SC just officially authorized Koga sticks for pressure point last year, Kubatons in 2000. Trying to get one municipality to convert back to straight sticks. When ASP went on the state list they all dumped pr-24's and batons. All that because the salesman told them they would reduce liability.
Magicmanmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 13:30   #9
Peace Frog
...............
 
Peace Frog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,899
Whichever one cracks heads the best I'm all for you guys using!


Y'all stay safe out there!
Peace Frog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 13:38   #10
Magicmanmb
Senior Member
 
Magicmanmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coastal, SC area
Posts: 4,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace Frog View Post
Whichever one cracks heads the best I'm all for you guys using!


Y'all stay safe out there!
My 60+ y/o round sap cracks the best. Illegal to carry unless you got grandfathered in. I think Pittsburgh still has the flat ones, not sure though.
Haven't been up there for a few years.
Magicmanmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 14:23   #11
Sgt127
Senior Member
 
Sgt127's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,519
We use the philosophy of a stick is a stick is a stick. Straight or collabsible, if you are certified for a stick, game on. Since the targets are the same, and, certainly the no hit areas are the same, I don't see how it matters.
Sgt127 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 17:02   #12
lndshark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NOT the PNW (yet)
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt127 View Post
We use the philosophy of a stick is a stick is a stick. Straight or collabsible, if you are certified for a stick, game on. Since the targets are the same, and, certainly the no hit areas are the same, I don't see how it matters.
That's what I've been trying to explain...I think it's, sadly, a public image thing (which REALLY helps us do our jobs).
lndshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 17:03   #13
lndshark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NOT the PNW (yet)
Posts: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicmanmb View Post
Does anyone have a current copy of the instructors manual they would be willing to loan.
x2 please
lndshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 18:00   #14
Vigilant
Senior Member
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Inside the Perimeter
Posts: 8,841
I'm certified with straight baton only, so I don't speak from experience. Even so, it seems that you couldn't make much of a jab with an ASP. Am I wrong?

Call me old-fashioned, but there's just something about the sound of seasoned Hickory making a solid strike. It just sounds so... environmentally friendly.
__________________
Illegitimi non carborundum
Vigilant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2011, 18:29   #15
Fireplug
Senior Member
 
Fireplug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Big D
Posts: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
I'm certified with straight baton only, so I don't speak from experience. Even so, it seems that you couldn't make much of a jab with an ASP. Am I wrong?

Call me old-fashioned, but there's just something about the sound of seasoned Hickory making a solid strike. It just sounds so... environmentally friendly.
So true!
__________________
Gunpowder & Lead.....enough said.
Fireplug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 06:26   #16
Magicmanmb
Senior Member
 
Magicmanmb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coastal, SC area
Posts: 4,064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vigilant View Post
I'm certified with straight baton only, so I don't speak from experience. Even so, it seems that you couldn't make much of a jab with an ASP. Am I wrong?

Call me old-fashioned, but there's just something about the sound of seasoned Hickory making a solid strike. It just sounds so... environmentally friendly.
Not to mention trying to spin an ASP. I've personally found a full length 24" straight stick has a more attention getting visual. An ASP seems to be invisible and is fine for investigators and to carry when you can't carry a baton. Every time in the last few years that I've drawn an ASP I've ended up having to use it. Good old fashioned baton spin seemed to act more as an attention getter.

Even PR-24 is more useful than ASP. Blocking punches, drawing and spinning as you do so. Martial arts moves jsbs, pressure points. Also since it's hotter than the devil here if you leave your belt in the car overnight (take home car)
your cuffs & ASP can cause burns. Weapons & ammo inside w/me.
Magicmanmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 10:47   #17
Agent6-3/8
Senior Member
 
Agent6-3/8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The ramparts of civilization
Posts: 11,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicmanmb View Post
Not to mention trying to spin an ASP. I've personally found a full length 24" straight stick has a more attention getting visual. An ASP seems to be invisible and is fine for investigators and to carry when you can't carry a baton. Every time in the last few years that I've drawn an ASP I've ended up having to use it. Good old fashioned baton spin seemed to act more as an attention getter.
I've been told the same by several people who have had the luxry of using the old straight sticks.
__________________
"The mountains are calling and I must go." -John Muir
Agent6-3/8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 11:21   #18
nitesite10mm
Dog Lover
 
nitesite10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 1,649
Student PPCT Manual, page 8-3, right column top paragraph.

States that the risk of injury is greater with collapsable batons than with straight batons of the same weight. You don't necessarily have to have the Instructor manual to prove your point.
__________________
Dogs
Guns
BBQ
in no particular order.........
nitesite10mm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 12:07   #19
SCSU74
St. Cloud Proud
 
SCSU74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Northwoods
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicmanmb View Post
I've bent two hitting a heavy bag during training. Get the RCB I put one between blocks and it never bent w/250+ on it extended.
+1 love mine, feels like a baseball bat
__________________
In Valor There is Hope
SCSU74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2011, 12:23   #20
nitesite10mm
Dog Lover
 
nitesite10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCSU74 View Post
feels like a baseball bat
So does Dymondwood
__________________
Dogs
Guns
BBQ
in no particular order.........
nitesite10mm is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 21:45.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,231
371 Members
860 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31