.40S&W Light Recoil Load

ricklee4570 · 08-03-2011, 10:42

Which factory ammunition choice would you recommend for a petite woman shooting the .40S&W?

I have quick access to some WInchester 135 grain JHP Ranger (not "T").

Also I have acces to some Remington Golden Saber in 180 grain.

This is not for me, it is for a friends wife. I dont shoot the .40 caliber so I could not advise them.

The-Fly · 08-03-2011, 11:46

its called 9mm

cowboy1964 · 08-03-2011, 12:37

The lighter the bullet the worse the recoil. So stick with 180.

Or like the other guy said, get a 9.

jimmym86 · 08-03-2011, 18:38

The federal 180 fmjs don't kick much at all...I would go with those

15GLOCKGUY · 08-03-2011, 18:41

Are you talking carry or for practice? If it is for practice, Winchester white box from Wally World shoots mildly.

jimmym86 · 08-03-2011, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 15GLOCKGUY

Are you talking carry or for practice? If it is for practice, Winchester white box from Wally World shoots mildly.

I thought the same thing until my Walmart started carrying the federal 180s a while back...quite a noticeable difference and its cheaper unless their prices changed again :(

15GLOCKGUY · 08-03-2011, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmym86

I thought the same thing until my Walmart started carrying the federal 180s a while back...quite a noticeable difference and its cheaper unless their prices changed again :(

Feds always seem hotter in all calibers than white box. Especially American Eagle. That's some toasty practice ammo. Don't let her shoot any of that! LOL My Pop's won't shoot American Eagle .38 SPLs either. For a senior citizen, in his S&W 638, he's done after one box. He never minded white box or my HBWC lead realoads over a mild Bullseye charge. It's those dang American Eagle. I bet a new G-17 4th Gen eats them pretty good. The guys complain about the norms being too weak. Try some of that guys.

jimmym86 · 08-03-2011, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by 15GLOCKGUY

Feds always seem hotter in all calibers than white box. Especially American Eagle. That's some toasty practice ammo. Don't let her shoot any of that! LOL My Pop's won't shoot American Eagle .38 SPLs either. For a senior citizen, in his S&W 638, he's done after one box. He never minded white box or my HBWC lead realoads over a mild Bullseye charge. It's those dang American Eagle. I bet a new G-17 4th Gen eats them pretty good. The guys complain about the norms being too weak. Try some of that guys.

Maybe we are thinking about different federal ammo...I'm talking about the cheapo 50rd plane jane packs.

Federal 180gr FMJ: 985 fps (muzzle vel) and 925 fps (50yd vel)
Winchester 165gr FMJ: 1060 fps (muzzle vel) and 1001 fps (50yd vel)
***these were just pulled off the manufacturer's websites...

In my 23 and 23c, the only 2 differences i noticed between the 2 were:
1) The 180gr federals had noticeabley less recoil
2) The federals (in general) put out a more noticeable muzzle flash (esp in my C) which must have something to do with the powder they use, and why they 'recommend' not shooting them in ported or compensated handguns

Maybe each of us perceive the felt recoil differently (kinda like the difference between felt recoil in 45 vs 40)...To the OP, you can't go wrong with either. They both kick much less than my Gold Dot and Ranger T carry ammo!

Andy W · 08-04-2011, 18:34

Tula 180 grain FMJ (Think Wolf) is a pretty mild shooting and affordable practice load. It feels almost like a 9mm and it's less than $14/50 around here. However, it's pretty dirty so frequent cleaning is a must with these.

I haven't shot these myself, but Federal's 165 grain Personal Defense Hydra-Shok load looks pretty manageable. It shoots a 165 grain bullet bullet and is subsonic, so it should have even less felt recoil than most 180 grain loads.

A6Gator · 08-04-2011, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

Which factory ammunition choice would you recommend for a petite woman shooting the .40S&W?

Fiocchi 40SWF. 165gr. Closest to major power factor floor. Make sure she uses a good grip. I'd let her shoot something w/a bit less snap, if she's just starting out.

greenlion · 08-05-2011, 07:12

Just saying "heavier bullets kick less than lighter bullets" is not exactly accurate. You have to take into account bullet weight and velocity.

If you can find (and most ammo manufacturers have this data on their website) the original .40S&W loads that the FBI tested (180 grain bullet doing 950-980 fps) it is very low recoiling, and effective. You can match a cheap full metal jacket version of this with an expanding hollowpoint version for self defense so both loads feel similar.

Some manufacturers still make (I know federal still made a version of this in their home defense line) what began as the "police light" training round. It is a 165 grain bullet doing the same 980 feet per second that the old FBI load did. This one is EXTREMELY light recoiling in .40S&W, even in the defensive loads.

Personally, I would go with the 180 grain bullet for self defense at that velocity, because when you start slowing velocities down, heavier bullets are more effective, see the 230 grain .45 acp for an example.

greenlion · 08-05-2011, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by 15GLOCKGUY

Feds always seem hotter in all calibers than white box. Especially American Eagle. That's some toasty practice ammo.

Federal American Eagle use to have a version of their FMJ ammo that was a 165 grain bullet doing 980fps. That one WAS a *****cat. They also had a full power version of the same practice ammo that had some real pep to it. The confusing thing was, they came in the same box, so some people reported that it was gentle and other called it a fire breather, and both shooters thought the other one was crazy. Federal has stopped making the slower version of the 165 gr FMJ practice bullet, but they still make it in their Hydra-shok defensive ammo.

greenlion · 08-05-2011, 07:20

I think less people would find the .40 S&W intimidating if they would avoid manufacturers who try to turn it into a 10mm, which it isn't...

I guess it helps to be a handloader, because that gives you direct experience with where the "increased bullet performance vs decreased shooting performance" threshold lies.

THplanes · 08-06-2011, 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricklee4570

Which factory ammunition choice would you recommend for a petite woman shooting the .40S&W?

I have quick access to some WInchester 135 grain JHP Ranger (not "T").

Also I have acces to some Remington Golden Saber in 180 grain.

This is not for me, it is for a friends wife. I dont shoot the .40 caliber so I could not advise them.

Yes the Winchester and I think Federal as well, 135 gr load is a low recoil load. The Winchester is rated at 1200 fps. They will have the lowest recoil but the penetration will be a bit suspect. These loads are nothing like the Corbon 135 gr load, it's definitely not a low recoil round.

G26S239 · 08-06-2011, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Fly

its called 9mm

I have to agree with this. If 40 is too much get a 9mm. 135 grain 40 is less sectional density than I care to use.

**Javelin** · 08-06-2011, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Fly

its called 9mm

This.

2 Hawks · 08-06-2011, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by G26S239

I have to agree with this. If 40 is too much get a 9mm. 135 grain 40 is less sectional density than I care to use.

She's a prime candidate for the venerable 9mm

PghJim · 08-06-2011, 16:31

I do not think most women would have recoil issues with the 180gr HST. The 135 you have mentioned is medium velocity, as with the Fed. personal defense line. I would go 9mm +p+ before I would go medium velocity 40.

DEADEYEGUY · 08-07-2011, 11:17

+1 on the Tula 180gr. ammo. I got rid of all but a couple of my .40's years ago. The only two I kept were a customized Beretta 96 and a Kahr MK40 that I love too much to sell. I'm starting to get some problems with getting older with heavy recoiling weapons. So when I found the Tula ammo in .40 to be so mild it''s what I use when I shoot .40. It's not bad at all.

barstoolguru · 08-07-2011, 11:36

lift some weights or get another gun

greenlion · 08-08-2011, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by barstoolguru

lift some weights or get another gun

Some how, I don't think she would appreciate "bulk up" as a solution to her problem. Seriously, do you guys even think before you type? I know several women who can handle hot full power .40's easily after training, just like most men. However, if this particular person is not a police officer, or does not wish to spend lots of time practicing, the Subsonic loads in .40 make the caliber very controllable, while still offering good stopping power and penetration. The original load the FBI adopted was a subsonic 180, after all. There is no reason to change hardware (gun) when you have a software (bullet) problem.

unit1069 · 08-08-2011, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by 15GLOCKGUY

Are you talking carry or for practice? If it is for practice, Winchester white box from Wally World shoots mildly.

The last .40S&W rig I shot was a Glock G-22 with WWB 180-grain FMJ ammo. I couldn't believe how much more recoil and muzzle flip that combo had compared to the .357sig G-32/125-grain ammo I own.

Does anyone know if the wife has an opinion on what she prefers in handgun/caliber/ammo?

21Carrier · 08-09-2011, 16:37

I thought .40S&W was made for women. I mean isn't that why the FBI ruined the 10mm? So their women trainees could handle it?

On a serious note, any cheap-o WalMart ammo should be fine.

Andy W · 08-10-2011, 18:40

[QUOTE=
I haven't shot these myself, but Federal's 165 grain Personal Defense Hydra-Shok load looks pretty manageable. It shoots a 165 grain bullet bullet and is subsonic, so it should have even less felt recoil than most 180 grain loads.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I'm quoting myself. Does anyone have any experience with this load? I imagine it feeling like a hot 9mm recoil-wise. Am I correct in this assumption? I might get some of these for myself if I purchase another .40. I'd probably switch them out after getting more comfortable with the .40 S&W recoil characteristics but they seem like a good option for someone who wants to transition from 9mm to .40 S&W.

barstoolguru · 08-10-2011, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlion

Some how, I don't think she would appreciate "bulk up" as a solution to her problem. Seriously, do you guys even think before you type? I know several women who can handle hot full power .40's easily after training, just like most men. However, if this particular person is not a police officer, or does not wish to spend lots of time practicing, the Subsonic loads in .40 make the caliber very controllable, while still offering good stopping power and penetration. The original load the FBI adopted was a subsonic 180, after all. There is no reason to change hardware (gun) when you have a software (bullet) problem.

if a weight lifter can't lift the weight he takes some off. Same with a gun if you can't handle the caliber get a smaller size. Lighter loads start bringing in different problems like cycling, stove piping; feeding ... yea I know change the springs bla bla bla but why not get a gun that she can control.