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Old 08-09-2011, 08:14   #1
RussP
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Will events in England influence behavior here in the US?

Been thinking about this. My vote is yes, it maywill embolden the current crop of instigators and escalate the level of behavior.

Am I wrong?
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Old 08-09-2011, 09:20   #2
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Am I wrong?
No, your most likely right unfortunately.

LE has to be proactive to prevent it from getting to the stages it has reached in England
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:00   #3
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With the recent "flash mob" violence that has happened in places like Wisconsin, I don't see any deterent from UK style rioting getting started in the US. I havent heard of any reprocussions for any of the Wisc. perpetrators, but then again, I don't watch much TV news.
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:28   #4
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This has happened here, Canada several times, think Rodney King http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh5ogOH82Aw.

The biggest issues are that possible consequences will not outweigh the benefits of the group mayhem, and society cannot/will not pay for managing the crisis logistically in a timely fashion, or to quell it in the beginning.

What is the worst that will happen, get arrested, spend the weekend in jail? After 6 months to a year when/if it goes to trial the result will be probation. The court appointed attorney doesn't cost a whole lot either, and why pay fine and court costs... at least here the court will suspend the already suspended driver license, and make a negative entry on their poor credit history.

In the end, the new TV is in the living room, and insurance companies and society will foot the cost.
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:47   #5
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Philly Announces Youth Curfew to Combat Violent 'Flash Mobs'

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/09...#ixzz1UYDGXxCW

So, a kid violates curfew, what happens? Are parents held responsible? Put them in jail (if they aren't already) and see if that has any effect.
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Old 08-09-2011, 10:50   #6
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With the recent "flash mob" violence that has happened in places like Wisconsin, I don't see any deterent from UK style rioting getting started in the US. I havent heard of any reprocussions for any of the Wisc. perpetrators, but then again, I don't watch much TV news.
There would likely have been instant repercussions if that had not occurred in a gun free zone.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:23   #7
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Actually, I think the *********gery that runs rampant over here influences other countries.

Plus, our little troublemakers are too ****ing stupid to switch to CNN, FOX, or read a newspaper. They're too busy banging hos, using bath slats, and collecting my tax dollars to fund their next purchase of 26" rims.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:53   #8
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Actually, I think the *********gery that runs rampant over here influences other countries.

Plus, our little troublemakers are too ****ing stupid to switch to CNN, FOX, or read a newspaper. They're too busy banging hos, using bath slats, and collecting my tax dollars to fund their next purchase of 26" rims.

DING DING DING, we have a winner.

"*********gery" I love it. I'm gonna use it.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:29   #9
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Some differences. For one, we have people who will use appropriate measures (including firearms) to defend themselves and their businesses. Two, different methodology and response to rioters (not water cannons but lots of deterrant/tear/OC agents used).

Then again, we have people who will riote when their favorite thug club, err, sports team, wins a championship.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:45   #10
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Well, I remember the rioting here in the late 60's.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:45   #11
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Definitely LE and civic leaders in this country would be remiss if they didn't at least have contingency plans in place.

I still remember photos of the L.A. riots with the Korean store owners on rooftops protecting their stores.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:48   #12
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I hate to be a MMQB, but the English police were way too passive in their response and now stuff is just out of control. Saw a report to day that their Lord High Superintendant of Her Majesty's Royal Police Forces or whatever they call the top cop over there was still refusing to deploy water cannons against the rioters. That's just silly, but the British of today are a mush- brained, lilly- livered, spineless people compared to their ancestors who created an Empire upon which the sun never set.

It's one thing to have hit and run attacks in which the mob is gone before the police arrives, as we've seen over here this Summer, as opposed to ongoing groups of rioters staying put in the street and waiting to confront the police. The actions of the English police that I've seen videos of in response to that type of confrontation are weak. I'd like to think that law enforcement in the US is much better prepared to respond with force in a similar situation.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:49   #13
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Well, I remember the rioting here in the late 60's.
So which did you enjoy more from the 1960s? The riots or the free love movement? California in the '60s... jeez.
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Old 08-09-2011, 12:51   #14
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And the top London cop recently resigned over the NOTW phone tapping scandel. So the Force was probably leaderless, which certainly didn't help.
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Old 08-09-2011, 13:09   #15
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I hate to be a MMQB, but the English police were way too passive in their response and now stuff is just out of control. Saw a report to day that their Lord High Superintendant of Her Majesty's Royal Police Forces or whatever they call the top cop over there was still refusing to deploy water cannons against the rioters. That's just silly, but the British of today are a mush- brained, lilly- livered, spineless people compared to their ancestors who created an Empire upon which the sun never set.

It's one thing to have hit and run attacks in which the mob is gone before the police arrives, as we've seen over here this Summer, as opposed to ongoing groups of rioters staying put in the street and waiting to confront the police. The actions of the English police that I've seen videos of in response to that type of confrontation are weak. I'd like to think that law enforcement in the US is much better prepared to respond with force in a similar situation.


They will not use gas. They also have no firearms to support their riot troops. They need permission from upper managagement to use less lethal (ARWEN) which is ridiculous because by the time they get permission the situation requiring it is over. As a result their police getting treated like punching bags and the rioters can throw stuff at them (molotovs, fences, rocks, etc) with nothing happening to them.

During our riot one of our tac support guys went through two entire vest load outs of munitions (40 rounds of 40mm)
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Old 08-09-2011, 13:11   #16
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I wonder if they have considered importing some Israeli Police to help.
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Old 08-09-2011, 13:16   #17
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So which did you enjoy more from the 1960s? The riots or the free love movement? California in the '60s... jeez.
Me? Aside from LA, the riots were worse further East.

I liked the attention the muscle cars received on the West Coast, like Ford and even Buick making "California Special" versions of a couple of their popular cars. I was in HS at that time, so the beaches, cars and pretty much everything else made the West Coast a fun place to live and get summer work back then.

It was a far different place than nowadays.
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Old 08-09-2011, 13:20   #18
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I hate to be a MMQB, but the English police were way too passive in their response and now stuff is just out of control. Saw a report to day that their Lord High Superintendant of Her Majesty's Royal Police Forces or whatever they call the top cop over there was still refusing to deploy water cannons against the rioters. That's just silly, but the British of today are a mush- brained, lilly- livered, spineless people compared to their ancestors who created an Empire upon which the sun never set.
It's hardly a new thing - the people on the front line are fearless but the people giving the orders refuse to give the orders necessary. The top policeman has effectively said "get a grip, lads, it's hardly a proper rebellion now, is it?" and is leaving them too it. The Prime Minister has told them to use "robust policing" but nobody will clarify what "robust" means. The policeman who tries to use his initiative and be "robust" without signed and sworn and sealed Rules of Engagement WILL end up jobless and with a criminal record to appease the masses. It's traditional.

Since the Crimean war, people have described the British as "lions led by donkeys". You're seeing it in action as we speak
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Old 08-09-2011, 13:41   #19
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If Obama is re-elected, count on it. The man is a complete buffoon and will lead this country to disaster. The experiment failed, we all got a good laugh, now lets elect a real leader.
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Old 08-09-2011, 15:34   #20
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DING DING DING, we have a winner.

"*********gery" I love it. I'm gonna use it.
Just give me credit.
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Old 08-09-2011, 16:59   #21
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Great, they've just firebombed the local police station. If they'd set fire to any other part of the city they might have actually increased the value of the place...
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Old 08-09-2011, 17:16   #22
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We don't have any in house to be concerned with as to serious rioters. But, we do have plans in place and means to deal with it. Lock it down and rock and roll is something we still know how to do, in case of certain outside and and inside influences. So far it seems to be calm around here.
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Old 08-09-2011, 21:45   #23
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If Obama is re-elected, count on it. The man is a complete buffoon and will lead this country to disaster. The experiment failed, we all got a good laugh, now lets elect a real leader.
...if Obama is NOT re-elected you can probably count on it as well.

If you think about that one for a minute...that could be real bad starting that night.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:44   #24
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From the Daily Mail....

"The most frightening side-effect of the new ‘softly, softly’ policing approach is that the control of such estates has been surrendered to lawless gangs led by the likes of Mark Duggan, whose shooting by police sparked the peaceful demonstration which escalated into mob violence.

Reliable locals attest that, despite the Guardian’s doting portrait of him as a respectable pillar of the community, Duggan was involved in drug dealing and gun crime.

Impressionable ‘youths’ looked up to him as an ‘elder’. Only on our inner city estates can a 29-year-old gangster be considered an ‘elder’, a term usually associated with a wise old man.

The police have questions to answer, not just in relation to the death of Mark Duggan but also why they stood aside and allowed the wholesale looting in Wood Green and at the Tottenham retail park."

Another recent headline:
'We don't do water cannon, we rely on consent': May rules out tough action as vigilantes are forced to defend shops

Theresa May: 'We need robust policing but we also need to ensure that justice is done through the courts'

Senior officers complain Met police 'rudderless' since Sir Paul Stephenson left

(Theresa May is the British Home Secretary. Estates are what the brits call the projects.)

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Uc5v53Qs



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Uc5TwJGQ
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:23   #25
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I may be wrong but I feel like the 2nd amendment will help deter this. My part of the country people (vigilanties) would take it into there own hands like they have in england, except over here they would be armed.
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