[Self Defense]

I am new to the site, and I have a new glock 19 Gen 3 that I have run 400 - 500 rounds through without the first hitch. I also found it to be very accurate. I had some difficulty manipulating the Slide Lock and the Magazine release, and this was easily fixed in my case with the addition of an extended Slide Lock and extended magazine release. I was so pleased with the pistol that I thought the only other possible thing that may make it better is night sights. I decided on the XS 24/7 Big Dot Night Sight. My accuracy has gone all to h^^ and I am all over the place. Can't seem to get an accurate sight picture for most shots. Just wondering if anyone else has installed these sights and might have a suggestion on how to improve.

[Braden]

I have them on all my Glocks and love them. From 25 yards I can keep my shots on a paper plate, which is about as well as I did with Glock sights. If your accuracy is off and you're all over the place then you're not being consistent about something. Either you're not holding the same sight picture or maybe you just need to work on trigger control. The sights themselves are plenty accurate.

[JBarbaresi]

the XS sights are great for their intended purpose, but contrary to what most users will tell you, they do not work magic and help you shoot any better. i had a few sets installed on various glocks over the years, but recently went a different direction when i found myself with only 1 glock presently. i just didn't enjoy shooting at the range as much because for me that are not as accurate beyond 7 yards.

[djackson]

I put the big dots on my g26 and love them

[Bogey]

Originally Posted by Self Defense

Just wondering if anyone else has installed these sights and might have a suggestion on how to improve.

Lose the XS sights and get some 3 dot type.

I'll suggest Tru Glo TFOs.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by JBarbaresi

the XS sights are great for their intended purpose, but contrary to what most users will tell you, they do not work magic and help you shoot any better. i had a few sets installed on various glocks over the years, but recently went a different direction when i found myself with only 1 glock presently. i just didn't enjoy shooting at the range as much because for me that are not as accurate beyond 7 yards.

I'll agree that they don't necessarily make you a BETTER shooter, but I certainly wouldn't agree that they make you a WORSE shooter or that they're not accurate beyond 7 yards. I shoot at 15 and 25 yards on a regular basis and manage the same accuracy I did with Glock sights and with 3 dot sights. You just have to know how to use them.

[sigchaser723]

Those sights are a love em or hate em type of sight. I was in the latter catagory. I was fast as hell up close but at extended ranges I sucked with them. It was me not the sight for me they didn't work and more traditional sights did so I sold them.

[G19aps]

Your sight picture has to be the same every time. If you were OK with post/notch sights and suck with XS, you're not being consistent with your sight picture.
Also, the human eye is more capable of judging accuracy with straight lines, not curves. Even if you get 3 dot sights, you should always be using the post/notch unless it's too dark to see it.

[verde]

Originally Posted by Bogey

Lose the XS sights and get some 3 dot type.

I'll suggest Tru Glo TFOs.

+1 or truglo t

[SCSU74]

ya these sights are great for their intended purpose, extremely fast target acquisition, but they aren't meant for a "range" gun that you are shooting for accuracy. I have these sights installed on my secondary gun at work (G30) and my BUG (S & W 637) as well as my patrol shotgun (Rem 870) I would never even look at another sight system for any of these three guns because XS is an amazing sight system when you are trying to get hits on target quickly. All of these 3 guns will be used in close quarters and probably won't be outside of 15 yds. esp. my 637. I use Trijicon 3 dot for my duty gun because if i am outside of 20+ yds i don't feel i am accurate enough with XS. So it really depends what you are using your gun for. If you only go to the range and want really tight groups XS probably isn't your best choice, but if you are carrying CCW there isn't a better sight system than XS.

[IT0]

I just got and shot the XS little dot for the first time today and WOW, they are nice. Nice groups, quick acquisition and felt really natural.

My local gun store geek advised against the big dot and I am really glad I took his advice this time.

[JimD303]

No faster than point shooting (the only range where there might be a "benefit"), and much slower as distance.

They're a gimmick. Stick with traditional sights - the design has been around for so long because it works.

[up1911fan]

I have them on my G26 and like them. No problems making center hit's at 15-20 yards.

[argy1182]

I have them on my 21sf and like them. My accuracy is pretty much unchanged from the standard sights, but I do like the unmistakable big dot for quick acquisition.

[Glockbuster]

You'll get all kinds of opinions on this or that. What exactly do you mean by accuracy gone to hell ? if we're talking 2 inch groups I believe you. If you are worried about hitting a human target at normal defensive ranges I'd be more concerned something other is the problem. You cannot expect exceptional accuracy out of XS sights unless you take the same time to align them properly as you do the other sights. XS sights help you put that big dot on target at close range. When you target practice, you give yourself the luxury of lining up your sights nice and clean. When your life is on the line, you'll be focused on your threat and the sight picture will be secondary. This is when that big dot will cross your threat unmistakely and BANG!. Target practice is one thing, defensive shooting another. The sights excell at the latter. And once you learn to line them up properly with practice, they'll serve you well for both.

[JimD303]

Originally Posted by Glockbuster

You'll get all kinds of opinions on this or that. What exactly do you mean by accuracy gone to hell ? if we're talking 2 inch groups I believe you. If you are worried about hitting a human target at normal defensive ranges I'd be more concerned something other is the problem. You cannot expect exceptional accuracy out of XS sights unless you take the same time to align them properly as you do the other sights. XS sights help you put that big dot on target at close range. When you target practice, you give yourself the luxury of lining up your sights nice and clean. When your life is on the line, you'll be focused on your threat and the sight picture will be secondary. This is when that big dot will cross your threat unmistakely and BANG!. Target practice is one thing, defensive shooting another. The sights excell at the latter. And once you learn to line them up properly with practice, they'll serve you well for both.

Is that why every experienced gunfighter doesn't recommend them?

[Glockbuster]

Originally Posted by JimD303

Is that why every experienced gunfighter doesn't recommend them?

What do you mean by "experienced gunfighters"?. I don´t believe in "experienced gunfighters" in defensive shooting scenarios that is. I wonder how many of them actually used XS sights in a defensive situation. You make it sound as if these "experienced gunfighters" have gone through all kinds of sights in many defensive gunfights where a threat has the lead as it applies to CCW. Keep in mind I´m not talking combat in a battlefield here.

[JimD303]

Originally Posted by Glockbuster

What do you mean by "experienced gunfighters"?. I don´t believe in "experienced gunfighters" in defensive shooting scenarios that is. I wonder how many of them actually used XS sights in a defensive situation. You make it sound as if these "experienced gunfighters" have gone through all kinds of sights in many defensive gunfights where a threat has the lead as it applies to CCW. Keep in mind I´m not talking combat in a battlefield here.

So, you are more interested in the theory that they might work, when they fail in competition and there are no experienced shooters using them, than paying attention to what experienced combat shooters use?

Ask Raymond Davis if his shooting was "defensive" or not. Let me know who is in a better position to offer advice on what works on a pistol - guys who've killed plenty of people with pistols, or guys who've shot paper and hid in a ditch.

[Bodyarmorguy]

I have XS Standard Dot combined with a 10-8 U notch rear on a couple of pistols and have enjoyed the results

[Glockbuster]

Originally Posted by JimD303

So, you are more interested in the theory that they might work, when they fail in competition and there are no experienced shooters using them, than paying attention to what experienced combat shooters use?

Ask Richard Davis if his shooting was "defensive" or not. Let me know who is in a better position to offer advice on what works on a pistol - guys who've killed plenty of people with pistols, or guys who've shot paper and hid in a ditch.

I have my own account and draw my own conclusions from IT. It is not extensive as I´ve only had one encounter in a rural area in my part of the world. I was lucky to come out alive. I´ve often thought what would have happened if the encounter had been urban with cars and people around there would have been no way I could have used my weapon without getting inocent people killed. I´m a competitive shooter myself and don´t use the XS for that shooting. Competitive shooting--at least the one I do--is more like attacking the blanks. That is a totally different thing. If I had moved and aimed and shot like I do in competition it would most certainly have gotten me killed.

On to your later statement, I´m curious to know what guys that have killed plenty of people with pistols defending themselves have used as sights ? Because, to tell you the truth, I knew plenty who are now regretably dead after they were attacked the first time, few have survived, but none have killed many pleople defending themselves.

[Glockbuster]

Originally Posted by Bodyarmorguy

I have XS Standard Dot combined with a 10-8 U notch rear on a couple of pistols and have enjoyed the results

Good for you!! you´ll like em more and more.

Look at the Smith and Wesson M&P 340CT j frame revolver--one of the most serious defensive platforms of modern date. There is a reason why it sports the standard dot XS front, and the crimson trace for that matter. I have such a revolver and love it. I also like the 340PD with the green hi viz pipe front, but this is worthless at night or low light. Believe me, you might pay a lot of attention to your sight during target practice or competition or whenever there is no threat on the other end. It will become secondary once the real deal hits.

[JimD303]

Originally Posted by Glockbuster

I have my own account and draw my own conclusions from IT. It is not extensive as I´ve only had one encounter in a rural area in my part of the world. I was lucky to come out alive. I´ve often thought what would have happened if the encounter had been urban with cars and people around there would have been no way I could have used my weapon without getting inocent people killed. I´m a competitive shooter myself and don´t use the XS for that shooting. Competitive shooting--at least the one I do--is more like attacking the blanks. That is a totally different thing. If I had moved and aimed and shot like I do in competition it would most certainly have gotten me killed.

On to your later statement, I´m curious to know what guys that have killed plenty of people with pistols defending themselves have used as sights ? Because, to tell you the truth, I knew plenty who are now regretably dead after they were attacked the first time, few have survived, but none have killed many pleople defending themselves.

The difference between defense and offense is mostly mindset. You are either taking charge and dictating the pace of the fight, or letting your attacker dictate the pace of the fight.


Competition is a game which rewards speed on relatively large targets. If XS Big Dots are faster, why aren't people who are after speed using them?


Kyle Defoor makes plain black sights with a wide notch.
Larry Vickers uses Heinie's with a wider notch.
Jason Falla makes a square cut version of the 10-8 sight.
Paul Howe uses the standard Glock night sights.
JD and Brian Searcy both have been using adjustable Dawson's, not sure if they still are.

Here is an example of an SF/Blackwater trained guy, who was in a defensive situation with his pistol. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-co...ry?id=13146587

He made shots well over 10 yards, through auto glass, in a "defensive" situation.

[Glockbuster]

Originally Posted by JimD303

The difference between defense and offense is mostly mindset. You are either taking charge and dictating the pace of the fight, or letting your attacker dictate the pace of the fight.


I am so sorry but respectfully I could not disagree more. This is a whole other topic so I wont go into detail here but you cannot defend yourself the way you attack a stage in IPSC for example.


Competition is a game which rewards speed on relatively large targets. If XS Big Dots are faster, why aren't people who are after speed using them?

Because you can give yourself the luxury to concentrate in your sights. Try competing focused on your targets not your sights and see how many points you lose.


Kyle Defoor makes plain black sights with a wide notch.
Larry Vickers uses Heinie's with a wider notch.
Jason Falla makes a square cut version of the 10-8 sight.
Paul Howe uses the standard Glock night sights.
JD and Brian Searcy both have been using adjustable Dawson's, not sure if they still are.

I'm not sure who they are I'm a little ignorant so I did a little research. Seems like they are combat oriented shooters, not CCW civilians. Their missions are attack oriented, not an unexpected defensive scenario.

Here is an example of an SF/Blackwater trained guy, who was in a defensive situation with his pistol. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-co...ry?id=13146587

He made shots well over 10 yards, through auto glass, in a "defensive" situation.

He could have made the same shots with the XS sights

[JimD303]

Originally Posted by Glockbuster

I am so sorry but respectfully I could not disagree more. This is a whole other topic so I wont go into detail here but you cannot defend yourself the way you attack a stage in IPSC for example.

Then I guess I'm doing it wrong...

He could have made the same shots with the XS sights

Except it would have been significantly harder.

You can keep trying to suggest that they're "for gunfights", but they can't pass any quantifiable test to actually proove that they're better/faster for any usage.

Instead, you have subject matter expert after expert speaking up about how much they suck, experienced shooters taking notch/post sights into harms way by choice, and every winning competitive shooter using something else.

You could take that as a clue, or your can keep believing in something that has yet to be demonstrated through empherical date and supported be expert opinion.

I used them for about 3k rounds and hit 12" plates with them past 50 yards, 1 handed. They still suck compared to most notch/post setups.

[Bodyarmorguy]

Originally Posted by JimD303

Paul Howe uses the standard Glock night sights.

Isn't Paul Howe in bed with XS for a rifle sight?