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Old 08-13-2011, 16:31   #41
LongGun1
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Originally Posted by Bolster View Post

I'm just trying to make the point that city life doesn't risk certain death by mob action...that would actually be exceedingly rare.

Exceedingly rare......right now!


But it is not the "here & now" many are concerned about..

..but the knowledge that many Blue State Urban Areas..

..are simply a powder keg looking for the right match!
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Old 08-13-2011, 17:53   #42
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During the LA riots in 1992 I think it was. I was around 50 miles away and safe. But I was unemployed and watched it for three days live on TV. The one thing that stands out is a scene in Compton where dozens of looters where in a store and the Compton Police showed up. All they did was step out of their car with shotguns and fire a couple of rounds into the air. That store was cleared out in a minute, those people couldn't get out fast enough. Most looters are not violent just opportunists. I think a show of force will deter most looters, but don't count on it.
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Old 08-14-2011, 00:00   #43
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Not to be contentious, but seems like there’s either a serious bias against non-metropolitan areas, or at least a gross misunderstanding of more rural life. We have hospitals & grocery stores; even have schools, paved roads and fire departments. And if we’re going to be fair about it, city people have to “put up with” a whole lot more than panhandlers. Cities not only have more crime, they have more crime per capita and a much higher percent of that crime is violent crime. They also have to put up with higher taxes, lower personal freedoms (less ccw allowance, etc), less privacy, lower performance on average of the school systems, and all manner of differences. And while there’s a whole lot more towns of 20 thousand than there are cities of a million, when was the last time we heard of a flash-mob in one of those 20K population towns.. None that I’m aware of.

Not hating on cities, and rural areas absolutely have their disadvantages too; there’s been times I’ve just craved a good marinated ribeye at 4am, and don’t like driving over an hour to get to little rock airport. But if we’re going to be honest about it, the differences between big city & small town is nowhere near being just a matter of inconveniences like panhandlers & traffic.

+1


Each to his own...but I have worked & lived/extended stays in large (Austin, Baton Rouge), very large (Houston, San Diego, New Orleans, Atlanta, Washington DC) to mega-cities (Istanbul...population 9 million)....

I have also worked & lived in rather rural & suburban areas...


I also had the opportunity to be intimately familiar with the medical centers in many of these areas...both rural, suburban & urban..

..and I would much rather go to a clean ER in a more suburban or rural area..

..with just a few of a much better clientŤle in the waiting room...

..than a overpacked, rather filthy ER waiting room in a large urban area..

..with all of the associated parking, waiting & crime issues!


In one rural home..We can be at a well staffed, award winning medical center in less than 15 minutes..

..with (low crime & good convenient parking) stores & shopping centers nearby..

..and 30+ restaurants in the same amount of time....Outback, Chili's, Copelands, Long Horn, etc.


In the other rather rural home...I can be at a couple of well staffed, award winning medical centers in less than 15 minutes..

.. with (low crime & good convenient parking) high end stores & shopping centers nearby..

..and 40+ restaurants in the same amount of time....PF Changs, Outback, Chili's, etc.

Commute is 10-15 minutes in both locations for wife & I...

..whereas I have been party to 1 & 2 hour bumper-to-bumper commutes with friends/relatives in major metropolitan areas...2 to 4 hours a day wasted smelling exhaust fumes!


Little to no traffic (rarely can you not go at least the speed limit...even during "rush hour")..

..always being able to safely park at or very near your destination (free of charge)..

..little to no crime (I know of friends in one AO that leave their cars & homes unlocked..

..fresh clean air, no graffiti, good schools, no panhandlers dumping filthy water on the windshield & wanting to be paid for their services, polite friendly people, the ability to exercise my 2nd amendment rights, the list goes on!


During those times that I stayed/lived in the big cities...

..often having to work after hours & in the early am..

..and in areas not prudent for a safe & long life..

..I learned the value of always having a weapon nearby..

..and good situational awareness is not optional!


At one time, the family & I would go to Houston once or twice a year for vacation..

..hit the rides at Astroworld, the exhibits at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, eat at Pappasito's Cantina ...

..but those vacations came to a screeching halt..

..gang activity at Astroworld became so unbearable the park was finally closed..(last trip we witnessed gang fights, gang intimidation directed at park customers including violence...the park literally was infested with gangs) http://www.epinions.com/review/trvl-...t_147551784580
http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/53091.aspx

..and my wife's purse was stolen by young ghetto rats while we were sitting in the Houston Museum of Natural Science theater..

..recovered the contents not stolen in the trashcan in the men's restroom!


We decided that trip we could do without their decaying, crime-ridden urban culture..

.. & they could do without our vacation $$$!












YMMV
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:11   #44
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Its a damn shame LG1. When you can't even go on vacation and worry about gangs, thugs and all the other trash trying to rip ya off. I lives in NYC for 20 years and know what your talking about. Shortly after I got married I moved out of state to a real nice area to eventually watch the scumbags I left move into the area I moved to. So I picked up again and moved to the burbs just outside a small city. In a different city where I work (as a defense contractor) my facility (owned by the US Army) is in the middle of a ghetto infested with the Bloods, Cryps. MS13 and other vermin. I can't seem to win. If I were a young man I'd consider relocating to a remote area of either Montana or Idaho, like I wanted to do years ealier.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:20   #45
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If rioting somehow came your way, a show of force will probably help. You and the neighbors sit out on the porch with you weapon of choice. I think firing a round or two over the bow of the crowd will dissuade even tough rioters, just know your backstop.

I doubt it would ever get theat bad where I live, but if it did, I would take the Israeli approach. If a large crowd of rioters were coming down my street, looting and burning house along the way, and they did not back down from warning shots, I would shoot a few in the leg with a .22lr rifle. If that didn't do it, anyone with a molotov cocktail, trying to break into my house or the house of my neighbors, or I see commiting a violent felony (rape,beating, etc.) would be shot dead.
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:41   #46
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Sounds like a good plan. But I probably would document it with video to show the use of deadly force was necessary. If it's a small short term shtf, government will be restored and actions accounted for. You have a body with brains spattered in your neighborhood, someone's gonna ask questions and someone will point you out as the shooter.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:01   #47
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I was in a couple riots as a participant. I was not on the side of the rioters. All I can say is, avoid large mobs of people if you can. That means stay off the street and out of the way. Get out of the area if you can, lay low if you can't. Shoot back. Rioters and looters will duck and run when gunfire erupts.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:27   #48
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I was a bystander in a riot once as a teenager and it was very exciting. I don't know to this day what it was about but the Puerto Ricans in Lawrence Ma. were upset about something. I was at work and we just locked the doors and watched out the windows as people ran from the riot down our street and past our building.

It was mild because the police there were brutal on a good day. I would not like to be in a really bad one without a gun.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:37   #49
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The Israelis use snipers to pick out the mob leaders and then the shoot them in the knee with a scoped .22
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:06   #50
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The Israelis use snipers to pick out the mob leaders and then the shoot them in the knee with a scoped .22
+1 that is why I said I would take the Israeli approach. Its not 100% non-lethal, but I'm thinking if you drop 2 or 3 key rioters the gang would pull back. You have a maximum effect, with minimal injury and loss of life, and with a .22 its quiet and with little flash so its easier to keep your shooting position hidden.


http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

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Old 08-15-2011, 11:42   #51
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It was mild because the police there were brutal on a good day. I would not like to be in a really bad one without a gun.
Police were brutal? You mean the police did what they needed to do to quell the disturbance? If the animals didn't riot, the police would not need to bring out the riot gear and whip some butt. See how that works? Behave like a civilized person, get left alone.

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The Israelis use snipers to pick out the mob leaders and then the shoot them in the knee with a scoped .22
I have zero problems with that. No moral dilemma, no righteous indignation, no outrage of circumstance, nothing. In addition to the knee, I would also put a few in the ankles, wrists, and elbows if the targets of opportunity were to present themselves. Basically do an Irish 6-pack from afar.
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:16   #52
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Have to disagree with the "move" strategy, because it recommends major disruption and likely downgrade of lifestyle (as you leave your job, family, house or whatever your reasons you live where you do) for a minute probability of potential harm by a mob.

Take the Rodney King riots of LA. 53 people died, and that includes rioters themselves (for a better measure we should just take victims, not perps plus victims, but we'll take the conservative measure here and include the dirtbags too). There are almost 4 million people who live in LA. So chances of dying during one of the most violent outbursts in LA history were 1:76,000. If the odds were 1:1000 I'd think about moving, but one in seventy six thousand? I'm more likely to win the lottery than die in mob violence.

Good preparation is all about playing the odds, and odds don't favor death by mob action...that's a very rare scenario that some of us like to fantasize about. All types of assaults combined, account for a whopping 0.7% of all deaths in the USA.

We should be much much more concerned about things like seat-belting into our cars, stopping smoking, getting exercise to prevent heart disease, controlling weight. Your chances are an order of magnitude higher for dying of one of these controllable events, than mob violence.
In the Rodney King Riots, Most of the Korean business were not harmed or burned down, Because they were armed to the teeth, Just a couple of shots sent the rioters away, I new a couple of cops that were there They Believe in a armed populas) they said the Koreans were awsome, Some of the other cops would disarm the Koreans and they would just arm themselves back up. Almost all the Korean busnesses stayed intact.

In my whole neighborhood there maybe 8 gun owners and 75 non gun owners, Who is going to be hit in a riot. Even a shot gun spraying bird shot would scare away a lot of would be rioters, I would be armed with at least 2 hand guns a long gun and a shot gun with Hornady 00 Buck and some 1oz Slugs My house is my last stand.
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:20   #53
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So let me get this straight, you're sending your kids and wife out alone to make it an hour to her parents house? This is assuming it's bad enough in your area to want to bug out?


Makes perfect sense...
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Old 08-15-2011, 14:30   #54
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Police were brutal? You mean the police did what they needed to do to quell the disturbance? If the animals didn't riot, the police would not need to bring out the riot gear and whip some butt. See how that works? Behave like a civilized person, get left alone.



I have zero problems with that. No moral dilemma, no righteous indignation, no outrage of circumstance, nothing. In addition to the knee, I would also put a few in the ankles, wrists, and elbows if the targets of opportunity were to present themselves. Basically do an Irish 6-pack from afar.
No brother, not what I was getting at. The police in Lawrence were brutal on a good day when there was no riot going on. The prevailing attitude was if you did not do what they said to do they would beat the crap out of you. Everyone knew it, many experienced it, many were greatful for it.

I was the manager of a Radio Shack store in Boston for 5 years and no one can ever tell me that police are clean up there. I could tell you 100 stories of police theft, graft, intimidation and other crimes that we dealt with first hand. It wasn't until I moved out of the north east that I trusted a cop, and that took a while.
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Old 08-15-2011, 14:40   #55
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History has shown that dropping a few REALLY slows the attitude down.
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Old 08-15-2011, 17:31   #56
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So what about if you happen to find yourself in the area when the riot starts and you have no means of communication? You canít call the family to ask for help or tell them what area to stay away from or even call 911 if youíre injured. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And before you say it canít happen: http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10323288/ca-bart-blocks-cellphones-to-disrupt-protest<o:p></o:p>

Quote:
Bay Area Rapid Transit officials have said they shut down power Thursday evening to cellular towers for stations stretching from downtown to the San Francisco's airport after learning protesters planned to use mobile devices to coordinate its demonstration.<o:p></o:p>
</ARTICLE></SECTION>
.<o:p></o:p>
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Old 08-15-2011, 20:54   #57
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It's so sad that we even have to discuss this as such a real possibility. Bad times ahead, flash mobs are just getting started.
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Old 08-16-2011, 04:40   #58
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Originally Posted by Misty02 View Post
So what about if you happen to find yourself in the area when the riot starts and you have no means of communication? You canít call the family to ask for help or tell them what area to stay away from or even call 911 if youíre injured. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And before you say it canít happen: http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10323288/ca-bart-blocks-cellphones-to-disrupt-protest<o:p></o:p>



.<o:p></o:p>
Keep a low profile, move out of the area. Might even think about messing up your hair, tearing up your shirt and ripping off a back pocket. Maybe people won't be as tempted by a tree that looks like it has already had it's fruit plucked. It's going to depend. In some of the recent fair riots, whites were targeted. If you can't blend, hide. If you are hiding and have to shoot, run, don't walk to another position as soon as possible.

Only thing close to a riot I've ever experienced without tank support and automatic weapons, was walking out of a store into a skinhead rally in Germany with my brother. We just walked with the crowd, and turned off on the next street. Short haircuts helped.
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Old 08-16-2011, 05:32   #59
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Keep a low profile, move out of the area. Might even think about messing up your hair, tearing up your shirt and ripping off a back pocket. Maybe people won't be as tempted by a tree that looks like it has already had it's fruit plucked. It's going to depend. In some of the recent fair riots, whites were targeted. If you can't blend, hide. If you are hiding and have to shoot, run, don't walk to another position as soon as possible.

Only thing close to a riot I've ever experienced without tank support and automatic weapons, was walking out of a store into a skinhead rally in Germany with my brother. We just walked with the crowd, and turned off on the next street. Short haircuts helped.
That is actually a great idea, Cavalry Doc! One I might not have thought of in time. Thank you for planting the seed in my head. There is no chance of me blending in, so your idea offers the greatest possibility of making it out unharmed. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
If there are ever any such cases in Florida I better reconsider my choice of shoes as well, what I normally wear is not optimal for running and may not have a chance to make it to my vehicle for the spare of flats.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Itís funny (not the ha ha type) when I visited the mountain in Oneida, Kentucky over a decade ago they were having some problems with the KKK. The first thing they told me was to not outer a word if there were any problems so they couldnít detect my Spanish accent. For a period of a year I had to go there several times and even considered going back to my strawberry blond hair color to further increase my odds of blending in until I could manage to escape. Now it may be my accent that offers the greatest benefit.
<o:p></o:p>
I may have a false sense of security but I believe the possibility of things like that happening in Florida or Texas may be more remote. If it did happen here though, with the number of armed citizens we have, two things could happen: it will either end quickly and people would dissipate or it would be horrible and bloody. I donít want to be present to find out which.<o:p></o:p>

.
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Old 08-16-2011, 08:26   #60
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Its a damn shame LG1. When you can't even go on vacation and worry about gangs, thugs and all the other trash trying to rip ya off. I lives in NYC for 20 years and know what your talking about. Shortly after I got married I moved out of state to a real nice area to eventually watch the scumbags I left move into the area I moved to. So I picked up again and moved to the burbs just outside a small city. In a different city where I work (as a defense contractor) my facility (owned by the US Army) is in the middle of a ghetto infested with the Bloods, Cryps. MS13 and other vermin. I can't seem to win. If I were a young man I'd consider relocating to a remote area of either Montana or Idaho, like I wanted to do years ealier.
How do you think they feel? Some enterprising young urban professional is trying to expand his business into under-served markets and he keeps running into you. I can hear him now. "Man I keep running into the same lame kind of guy, mows his yard, paints over my marketing signs. How is a banger supposed to make a living if his customers can't find him?"

What, are you against people improving themselves?
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