GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2011, 11:23   #1
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 964
Misplaced credit

I play in a church band. This morning between songs, one of the pastors told the congregation about an old woman who’d nearly died.
She had a 95% blockage in one of her coronary arteries. The doctors put in a stent to open the artery and now she’s going to be going home in a couple of days.

Naturally, the pastor gave all the credit for her recovery to God. This, IMNSHO, is a total crock.

The credit should go, in no particular order, to:

The cardiac surgeon who performed the operation.
The medical researchers who developed the procedure.
The medical researchers who developed the medicated stent used in the procedure.
The engineers, programmers, technicians and service personnel who designed and built the equipment, wrote the computer software that controlled it, installed it and handled the maintenance that kept it operating perfectly.

Also, I happen to know that, if you look on the back of each piece of equipment used in the cardiac cath lab where the procedure was done, you’ll find a small green and silver metallic label with my initials on it. I did the final quality control checkout on that equipment the week before I retired.

But, of course we all know that the old lady is alive solely due to the love and benevolence of God.

Yeah, right!!
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 12:38   #2
nmstew
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,888
so very true. But you know what the religious crowd will say: "God made all those people, so he gets the credit." God needs alot of human help to accomplish things if you ask me.
__________________
What you call "hunger", I call "incentive".
nmstew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 13:19   #3
barstoolguru
texas proud
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: dallas, tx
Posts: 2,434
Send a message via ICQ to barstoolguru Send a message via Yahoo to barstoolguru
thank god for all the people that helped her..... and that covers every one.... now where is the sunday lunch everyone always talks about
barstoolguru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 13:59   #4
Snapper2
Senior Member
 
Snapper2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: s.east Texas
Posts: 2,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japle View Post

Also, I happen to know that, if you look on the back of each piece of equipment used in the cardiac cath lab where the procedure was done, you’ll find a small green and silver metallic label with my initials on it. I did the final quality control checkout on that equipment the week before I retired.

But, of course we all know that the old lady is alive solely due to the love and benevolence of God.

Yeah, right!!
Thanks Japle, you did your part, God bless you.
__________________
Colossians 1:13-18
Snapper2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 14:09   #5
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Understand your point. Not sure I agree. I've run into folks who want footnotes to just about every thing they read. Not impressed. If the pastor was giving a academic lecture, extremes in documentation would be expected. If you consider this a serious omission on the part of the pastor, you need to bring it to the attention of the pastor. If that fails to satisfactorily resolve the issue, take it to the personnel board.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 14:20   #6
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 964
Quote:
Posted by Brucev:
If you consider this a serious omission on the part of the pastor, you need to bring it to the attention of the pastor. If that fails to satisfactorily resolve the issue, take it to the personnel board.
Seriously? That's your response? Take it to the personnel board?
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 14:22   #7
BradD
Senior Member
 
BradD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Mid-South
Posts: 5,119
I struggle with that issue also. It always sounds like a stretch when someone makes a statement such as the one your pastor made.

However, it is true that God gave those people the talent, energy, etc. that were required. Just because God doesn't do the work through an obvious miracle doesn't mean He deserves no credit.

Also, haven't you read 1 John? (other places also, but that is the most obvious one) It's one thing to disagree with your spiritual brother. It's something else to run him down in public, especially around folks who are already looking for ammo to use against our side.

Sent from my DROIDX
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Romans 3:23 -> 6:23 -> 5:8 -> 10:9 -> 10:13


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by BradD; 08-14-2011 at 14:25..
BradD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 14:29   #8
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japle View Post
Seriously? That's your response? Take it to the personnel board?
Over the years I've dealt with staff members and volunteers on a wide enough scale to appreciate how conflict can be resolved. I first said approach the pastor with whom you take issue. Then if no accord was reached, turn to the personnel board. Accountability is not optional for anyone. If this is simply a personality conflict, etc., then you need to take a look at yourself. Consider what Jesus said in Matt. 18:15-17. Hope things work out.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 16:36   #9
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 964
Bruce, buddy, you’ve missed the point completely.

While I do “take issue” with what the pastor said, I don’t have a personality conflict with him. I like the guy.

What I object to is the way he gave credit to his god, in the absence of any evidence at all that his god even exists, much less was involved in any way in the matter under discussion, while giving no credit at all to the very real people who contributed to saving the old lady’s life. It’s absurd.

In the case we’re talking about, the woman lived and God got the credit. If she’d died, would God have gotten the blame? Somehow, I don’t think so.
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 18:14   #10
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 964
Quote:
Posted by BradD:
It's one thing to disagree with your spiritual brother. It's something else to run him down in public, especially around folks who are already looking for ammo to use against our side.
My “spiritual brother”? “Our side”?

Let’s be clear about one thing; I’m an Atheist. The pastor is not my “spiritual brother”. When it comes to religion, we’re not on the same "side".

I play in the church band because I want to keep up my basic skills and keep my chops in shape. The church is a convenient place to do that. I’m not a member of the church. No one has ever asked me to become a member. That’s fine with me. It avoids an awkward conversation.

As to the “ammo” comment, there’s already plenty of it out there. My help isn’t needed.
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 18:28   #11
Brasso
Senior Member
 
Brasso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Stranger in a strange land.
Posts: 8,679
If I cut my hand on a dirty knife and do nothing to clean the wound, I'm going to get an infection, and probably die. If on the other hand I take care of it, I'll most likely be OK in a couple of days. Putting a band aid on the cut takes nothing away from God. If He decides it's my time, nothing I can do will prevent it.

How do you know He didn't stop an infection, etc...?

I could tell you about miraculous healings, but you wouldn't believe it anyway. I'm not even sure why I'm taking the time to write this.
__________________
Yeshayahu 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon the throne of David and over His reign, to establish it and sustain it with justice and with righteousness from now on, even forever. The ardour of יהוה of hosts does this.
Brasso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 19:15   #12
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,950
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
How do you know He didn't stop an infection, etc...?
Neosporin God...

I think I'll go with Neosporin.

-ArtificialGrape
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 20:13   #13
muscogee
Senior Member
 
muscogee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,841


Had four stints put in two years ago. I was awake and watched the whole thing. The cardiologist did it. He didn't glow or anything. However, it did cost more than 10% of my income.
__________________
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley
muscogee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 21:08   #14
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 964
Moscogee,

This might sound like a funny question, but did the doctor or nurse tell you to cough at any time during the procedure?
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 21:16   #15
Brucev
Senior Member
 
Brucev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japle View Post
Bruce, buddy, you’ve missed the point completely.

While I do “take issue” with what the pastor said, I don’t have a personality conflict with him. I like the guy.

What I object to is the way he gave credit to his god, in the absence of any evidence at all that his god even exists, much less was involved in any way in the matter under discussion, while giving no credit at all to the very real people who contributed to saving the old lady’s life. It’s absurd.

In the case we’re talking about, the woman lived and God got the credit. If she’d died, would God have gotten the blame? Somehow, I don’t think so.
Yes, I misunderstood. I thought you considered this a actual problem. You have fun now. And next time you don't like something the pastor says, find the bone in your back and ask him about it.
Brucev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 21:24   #16
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,950
Blog Entries: 1
I suspect that her determination and will power to see you perform again was instrumental in her recovery.
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 22:01   #17
BradD
Senior Member
 
BradD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Mid-South
Posts: 5,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Japle View Post
My “spiritual brother”? “Our side”?
Sorry dude. I don't keep up with the roster around here. I guess I'd never really thought about whether the people playing the music are Christians. At first, it seemed odd to me, but I'm sure the folks at the church are glad to have you around, especially if they know you're an atheist. I'm sure that would be the case at our church anyway.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Romans 3:23 -> 6:23 -> 5:8 -> 10:9 -> 10:13


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by BradD; 08-14-2011 at 22:17..
BradD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2011, 23:13   #18
larry_minn
Silver Membership
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 18,054
So you feel bad you didn't receive credit in a sermon in a church? You do realize folks have done much more and had other PEOPLE (often who had nothing to do with it) get all the credit.
Do you have any idea what GOD is? Ok thats not a fair question. I have a "idea" what I think he/she/it is. Its very possible I am unable to understand that simple question.
To me think of the most powerful character you have ever seen on TV, movie,book. IMO God is as far above them as their "character" is above us.
larry_minn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 06:34   #19
muscogee
Senior Member
 
muscogee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,841


Quote:
Originally Posted by Japle View Post
Moscogee,

This might sound like a funny question, but did the doctor or nurse tell you to cough at any time during the procedure?
Not that I remember? They kept telling me not to move or raise my head. I had a large catheter in my femoral artery. They didn't want me to do anything that would increase the blood pressure where the catheter was inserted. I had to lay flat on my back for several hours after the procedure so the incision in the artery wouldn't blow out.

Given all this, I think asking me to cough would have been counter productive. Why do you ask.
__________________
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley

Last edited by muscogee; 08-15-2011 at 06:40..
muscogee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2011, 06:37   #20
Japle
John, Viera, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Viera, Florida
Posts: 964
As I said earlier, what I object to is the way he gave credit to his god, in the absence of any evidence at all that his god even exists, much less was involved in any way in the matter under discussion, while giving no credit at all to the very real people who contributed to saving the old lady’s life. It’s absurd.

Did I expect the pastor to give me personal credit? Are you kidding me? How could he possibly know? The idea is, once again, absurd.
Japle is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:06.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 641
152 Members
489 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42