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Old 08-17-2011, 21:08   #1
squirreld
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Published reloading data compared to your load?

So my dad has a 300 win mag browning BAR, book has the max at 74 gr coming out at 3148 fps for a 165 gr sierra HPBT bullet.
Chrono has it at 3125 fps.
All good.

I have a 338 win mag browning BAR, book has the max at 68.5 gr coming out at 3000 fps for a 185 barnes XXX bullet.
Chrono has it at 2700 fps.
Way off. 10% off.

Both rounds are loaded until the primers start to flatten.
Any suggestions?
I think it has something to do with the bullet profiles.
Seems the Barnes X bullet comes out slower than the equivalent lead based HPBT.

Edit to add,
Rifles are identical other than bore diameter.
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Last edited by squirreld; 08-17-2011 at 21:30..
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Old 08-17-2011, 21:22   #2
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It is your gun. You may have a different bbl. length than the test bbl. or your bbl. may be to a different tolerance. If you want 3000fps try different powders and bullets. Out of my g-22 my reloads shoot 25fps slower on average than my friends g-22. Just the way it is.
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Old 08-17-2011, 22:35   #3
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What barrel length did the manual use for testing?
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Old 08-17-2011, 22:36   #4
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Quote:
Both rounds are loaded until the primers start to flatten.

...and why would you do this instead of trying to find the most accurate load? Not like either cartridge doesn't have a bunch of ass to spare.
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Old 08-18-2011, 13:41   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albyihat View Post
It is your gun. You may have a different bbl. length than the test bbl. or your bbl. may be to a different tolerance. If you want 3000fps try different powders and bullets. Out of my g-22 my reloads shoot 25fps slower on average than my friends g-22. Just the way it is.
^^^
What albyihat said. Most loads in loading manuals for .300 win mag and .338 win mag are measured in 24or 26" barrels, not sure what length you have.

They may also measure them in pressure test barrels not actual rifles.

Also you are shooting them in BAR's, you probably won't get the same velocity that a bolt action will.

Temp and altitude all affect actual velocity. Just work up loads with several powders until you find the most accurate load.

Then experiment with the best velocity you can acheive safely.
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Old 08-18-2011, 16:41   #6
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There are many factors that go into a barrel giving this or that velocity. It's not uncommon to have a 200fps diff between diff rifles w/ identical bbls & loads. Chamber & bore tolerances, smoothness of the bbl, even the numbr of grooves will all have an affect on vel. Throw in variations in components; primers, bullets, case manuf & number of times fired, etc, velocity is gonna vary.
Same for handguns, just smaller variations. I have several 4" 357mags, they all give diff vel w/ identical loads, one as much as 150fps diff. So always take the book data as a ref point only. You will likely never achieve exact results.
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Old 08-18-2011, 18:45   #7
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Thanks.
I'm gonna try a few diff bullets around the same weight to see if I get any speed increases/variations.
2700 is to slow.
I'd be happy at 3000.

Why do I flatten the primers?
Cause I am still cutting the same hole at 100 yards with each shot.

Wait till I get my 220 swift tuned in at 4000 FPS.
I am actually more comfy reloading rifle rounds that pistol rounds.
No chance for 2x charges and I reloaded about 99% rifle rounds growing up.
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Old 08-18-2011, 20:56   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirreld View Post
Thanks.
I'm gonna try a few diff bullets around the same weight to see if I get any speed increases/variations.
2700 is to slow.
I'd be happy at 3000.

Why do I flatten the primers?
Cause I am still cutting the same hole at 100 yards with each shot.

Wait till I get my 220 swift tuned in at 4000 FPS.
I am actually more comfy reloading rifle rounds that pistol rounds.
No chance for 2x charges and I reloaded about 99% rifle rounds growing up.

What powder are you using in the .338? It has been my experiance that Barnes bullets tend to give higher pressure than some other bullets. You should really be able to do better than 2700 fps with a 185gr bullet in the .338.

Last edited by ColoCG; 08-18-2011 at 21:00..
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Old 08-18-2011, 21:33   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoCG View Post
What powder are you using in the .338? It has been my experiance that Barnes bullets tend to give higher pressure than some other bullets. You should really be able to do better than 2700 fps with a 185gr bullet in the .338.

I have to agree. I can get 2900fps in my 22 1/2"bbl 338-06 using the 185gr TSX. I would think 3000fps in the 338winmag easily done. You don't say what powder you are using, but try RL19 or H4350 or IMR4831. Your flattened primers usually mean higher pressures but Federal primers can show flattening early.
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Old 08-18-2011, 22:47   #10
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...or loose primer pockets.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:06   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
You don't say what powder you are using, but try RL19 or H4350 or IMR4831.

I agree all great choices for.338 plus IMR4350 fits in the same category.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:06   #12
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Federal Magnum Match primers
IMR4350
67 grains
Virgin Brass.

I have IMR4351 and Re19 but since I'm essentially shooting the same hole at 100 yards with 4350, I have not tried these 2 yet.
I see no reason to.

I have some Nosler Accubonds, 180 gr. I'm going to try them. Bullet profiles are very different. Book has them coming out alot faster so perhaps thats the ticket.
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Last edited by squirreld; 08-20-2011 at 10:08..
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Old 08-20-2011, 22:00   #13
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If that's IMR 4350 I know that that is a good powder but I have never reloaded bullets as light as you are loading.

Just out of curiousity what are you trying to accomplish with these loads. Are they for hunting or just accurate long range acccuracy or what? The lightest bullet I have used was a Nosler 210gr. Partition, but I prefer 225gr. bullets.

Also what is your load with IMR 4350?

Nosler Accubonds are a great bullet. I have used the 180gr. in .300WIN Mag and 30-06 also 140gr. in .270Win.

Last edited by ColoCG; 08-20-2011 at 22:03..
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Old 08-20-2011, 22:24   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirreld View Post
Federal Magnum Match primers
IMR4350
67 grains
Virgin Brass.

I have IMR4351 and Re19 but since I'm essentially shooting the same hole at 100 yards with 4350, I have not tried these 2 yet.
I see no reason to.

I have some Nosler Accubonds, 180 gr. I'm going to try them. Bullet profiles are very different. Book has them coming out alot faster so perhaps thats the ticket.
I just checked your load, sounds pretty light. Hodgdons data Shows 67grs. of IMR4350 as a starting load for 185gr. Barnes TSX loaded to col. of 3.290" with a velocity of 2792 fps.

It lists a max of 74gr. in a compressed load for a velocity of 3072 fps.

So if you are loading 67grs. with the 185gr. it's no wonder all you are getting is 2700fps.

Not sure where you are getting the 68.5grs as a max load.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Last edited by ColoCG; 08-20-2011 at 22:28..
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:36   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirreld View Post
Federal Magnum Match primers
IMR4350
67 grains
Virgin Brass.

I have IMR4351 and Re19 but since I'm essentially shooting the same hole at 100 yards with 4350, I have not tried these 2 yet.
I see no reason to.
Agreed. There's no need to look for increased velocity unless you're needing to shoot very long distances are are trying to minimize bullet drop. But, that may come at a heavy accuracy price.

When I'm shooting 3/8 or 1/2" groups at 100yds (scoped), I quit experimenting with the load.
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:50   #16
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Agreed. There's no need to look for increased velocity unless you're needing to shoot very long distances are are trying to minimize bullet drop. But, that may come at a heavy accuracy price.

When I'm shooting 3/8 or 1/2" groups at 100yds (scoped), I quit experimenting with the load.

I agree with you Jim, but the OP was wondering why he was only getting 2700 fps with his load when he thought he should get 3000 fps.

It looks like he was using the wrong data. He was using a starting load and was 7grs. below max

A good accurate safe load should be your main criteria, that is why I asked about what he was trying to accomplish with this load.

Last edited by ColoCG; 08-21-2011 at 09:53.. Reason: more info
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Old 08-21-2011, 13:11   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirreld View Post
Federal Magnum Match primers
IMR4350
67 grains
Virgin Brass.

I have IMR4351 and Re19 but since I'm essentially shooting the same hole at 100 yards with 4350, I have not tried these 2 yet.
I see no reason to.

I have some Nosler Accubonds, 180 gr. I'm going to try them. Bullet profiles are very different. Book has them coming out alot faster so perhaps thats the ticket.
Well, you do NOT have a powder called 4351, so maybe 4831?? Your load is pretty light, so not surprised you are not getting the vel you want. You should be able to work upto 73-74gr, go in 1/2gr increments @ watch for pressures. While I agree, you don't need higher vel for paper, not much point in loading a premium Barnes at low vel for paper punching @ that vel. Might as well drop to a 338Federal & save powder & bbl wear. Accuracy is the primary goal for reloaing rifle rounds, but I won't give up 300fps vel to get 1/4MOA better accuracy in a hunting round.
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Last edited by fredj338; 08-21-2011 at 13:13..
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Old 08-21-2011, 18:05   #18
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Your right.
4831.

I am seeing the primers flatten at 67 gr.
I was going with Lee's modern reloading 2nd edition.
pg 516, 185 gr Barnes X bullet maxes out a 68.5 with a Large rifle primer.
I'm running a Magnum primer and 67 gr. Seems to fit with this books max load unless that's a different bullet?

I see what you are looking at on Hodgdon's site.

Now I'm confused. I see flattened primers at 67 gr. and the website says 74 gr.? Perhaps federal primers are a little softer start flowing a little to early as mentioned earlier?

I'm working up a colorado load.
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Last edited by squirreld; 08-21-2011 at 19:15..
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Old 08-21-2011, 23:53   #19
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Federal primers do indeed flatten easily. There should be other signs of excessie pressure, like case head marking from the breech or extractor if they are really over pressure. FWIW, you do NOT need mag primers for 4350, it will run fine on std primers. Check to make sure the bullets are not touching the lands/rifling. Huge pressure issue w/ any bullet but particularly monometals. They like to get a running start beore engraving into the rifling, as much as 0.030" of lead.
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Old 08-22-2011, 14:08   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squirreld View Post
Your right.
4831.

I am seeing the primers flatten at 67 gr.
I was going with Lee's modern reloading 2nd edition.
pg 516, 185 gr Barnes X bullet maxes out a 68.5 with a Large rifle primer.
I'm running a Magnum primer and 67 gr. Seems to fit with this books max load unless that's a different bullet?

I see what you are looking at on Hodgdon's site.

Now I'm confused. I see flattened primers at 67 gr. and the website says 74 gr.? Perhaps federal primers are a little softer start flowing a little to early as mentioned earlier?

I'm working up a colorado load.


For deer or elk or something else?
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