Magician Penn Jillette Says 'God, No!' To Religion

muscogee · 08-18-2011, 08:02

http://www.npr.org/2011/08/16/139676...-god-no-to-god

jwhite75 · 08-18-2011, 08:12

He is an odd cat. But he is also a noted libertarian and peoples rights advocate.

Sharkey · 08-18-2011, 08:52

I've only been visiting for a week but do you ever post anything that is actually positive towards "God"? You must be a hoot at dinner parties.

So Penn says no. What difference does that make? Justin is dating Selena too.......Like I care. FYI, Billy Graham says yes to God.

For someone who doesn't believe, you spend a lot of time posting in RI? I guess that is why atheism as a religion thread is so long.

muscogee · 08-18-2011, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey

I've only been visiting for a week but do you ever post anything that is actually positive towards "God"? You must be a hoot at dinner parties.

So Penn says no. What difference does that make? Justin is dating Selena too.......Like I care. FYI, Billy Graham says yes to God.

For someone who doesn't believe, you spend a lot of time posting in RI? I guess that is why atheism as a religion thread is so long.

I have found that many Christians can't understand what they read. The author respects believers, but does not respect religion.

Gokyo · 08-18-2011, 12:38

He sounded very reasonable and honest.

Ogreon · 08-18-2011, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscogee

I have found that many Christians can't understand what they read. The author respects believers, but does not respect religion.

Mr. Jillette seems to be a reasonable guy. (Even if his name does seem suspiciously French.) A fine example of tolerance for theists and atheists alike.

Syclone538 · 08-18-2011, 13:26

Penn is great. He is atheist and libertarian, so I agree with him on a lot.

More Penn
http://www.youtube.com/user/pennpoint
http://www.youtube.com/user/pennsays

RC-RAMIE · 08-18-2011, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogreon

. (Even if his name does seem suspiciously French.) A fine example of tolerance

Maybe you could learn something

Love how you are suspicious of the french then compliment somebody on being tolerant.

Keyhole · 08-18-2011, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gokyo

He sounded very reasonable and honest.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

RC-RAMIE · 08-18-2011, 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyhole

That's exactly what I was thinking.

If you have crackle he does a show on there.

Paul7 · 08-18-2011, 14:08

"And you also listen to [the] St. Matthew Passion by Bach. All the Bach stuff references God, even if it's not directly. I may be lying to myself, but I believe that that incredible talent, that incredible power, that incredible passion, is from the people who created it. And I believe that they would find passion in something else, if not for the church.

"We should not throw out religious art because it was inspired by that, but I believe that had Bach — even though this is impossible to say, and I have no authority to say this at all — ... I believe had Bach not been inspired to write [the] St. Matthew Passion about Christianity, that he would have still written the most beautiful music on the planet for some other ideal. Maybe for his family; maybe for love; maybe for truth.

Nonsense, where is the Islamic, Hindu, or Bhuddist St. Matthew's Passion?

Ogreon · 08-18-2011, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC-RAMIE

Maybe you could learn something

Love how you are suspicious of the french then compliment somebody on being tolerant.

Perhaps it is une petite blague. How you say eet...a small joke. Yes, no?
Hmmm. Maybe you're French, too.

RC-RAMIE · 08-18-2011, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul7

"And you also listen to [the] St. Matthew Passion by Bach. All the Bach stuff references God, even if it's not directly. I may be lying to myself, but I believe that that incredible talent, that incredible power, that incredible passion, is from the people who created it. And I believe that they would find passion in something else, if not for the church.

"We should not throw out religious art because it was inspired by that, but I believe that had Bach — even though this is impossible to say, and I have no authority to say this at all — ... I believe had Bach not been inspired to write [the] St. Matthew Passion about Christianity, that he would have still written the most beautiful music on the planet for some other ideal. Maybe for his family; maybe for love; maybe for truth.

Nonsense, where is the Islamic, Hindu, or Bhuddist St. Matthew's Passion?

How is that nonsense he is saying it inspired him but if it wasn't for religion somebody with his talent would have wrote beautiful music anyways.

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***ArtificialGrape*** · 08-18-2011, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul7

Nonsense, where is the Islamic, Hindu, or Bhuddist St. Matthew's Passion?

Perhaps you've missed the point. The point of his argument is that Penn argues that Bach was destined to create beautiful music. If Bach did not find his inspiration in Christianity, he would have found inspiration somewhere else and still left us with beautiful music. The point is not that other religions would yield their own Bach.

-ArtificialGrape

Paul7 · 08-18-2011, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Perhaps you've missed the point. The point of his argument is that Penn argues that Bach was destined to create beautiful music. If Bach did not find his inspiration in Christianity, he would have found inspiration somewhere else and still left us with beautiful music.

Pure speculation.

From Michael Caputo:

"For centuries, classical music lovers have been delighting in the great works of Johannes Sebastian Bach. Few, if any, have known that Bach’s greatest motivation in composing his music was his deep awe and love for God.

Bach, according to his biographers, was a profoundly religious man. Bitter, a nineteenth century biographer, wrote that Bach was a, "Sincere Christian" and that "His deep religious feeling is shown throughout his life" (Leaver, 1985, 13). It is also a well established fact that Bach was a zealous Lutheran who made evangelical Christianity a central part of his life. Because of his zeal for Christianity he has been referred to as "The fifth evangelist"
(Ibid, 13).

Being an Orthodox Lutheran, Bach had a profound love for the Bible. By the extensive notes that he wrote beside many scriptural passages in his Bible, we can deduce that he was a serious and reflective student of the Scriptures.

Unknown to most is Bach’s view of music. His belief was that music was to be composed to give glory to God, as well as for pleasant recreation. In fact, it was his custom to write, "Soli Deo Gloria,"(Only to God be the glory) at the end of many of his works.

Bach was without doubt one of the greatest composers of all time. Yet, in spite of his greatness, he humbled his great genius before the Creator to whom he dedicated most of his masterpieces. As a result, for the past three centuries, much glory has gone to the great God, through the delight and inspiration that millions have experienced by listening to his music."

Sharkey · 08-18-2011, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by muscogee

I have found that many Christians can't understand what they read. The author respects believers, but does not respect religion.

Well if it helps, I didn't read the article. I was referring to all your posts in RI, none of which seem very positive towards God or a belief in God. I think I stated that in my original posts so maybe it just isn't Christians that can't understand what they read?

I've seen Penn N Teller and it was a great show though maybe illusionist would be a better word for him especially if he doesn't believe in God. Carrot Top was way better though.

That said, I will state it again, I no more care what Penn thinks on God than what some of the Hollywood stars think on politics. He is tolerant? Bravo for him and so are most folks in this country.

***ArtificialGrape*** · 08-18-2011, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul7

Pure speculation.

Agreed, and Penn was clear about that in the text that you initially quoted, "even though this is impossible to say, and I have no authority to say this at all"

***ArtificialGrape*** · 08-18-2011, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey

I was referring to all your [Muscogee's] posts in RI, none of which seem very positive towards God or a belief in God.

How odd, I've noticed that the posts from most Christians are not very positive towards atheism/atheists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey

I've seen Penn N Teller and it was a great show though maybe illusionist would be a better word for him especially if he doesn't believe in God. Carrot Top was way better though.

I was willing to let your belief in God go, but Carrot Top, c'mon.

-ArtificialGrape

See all those lights out on the strip. Those are powered by two things. The Hoover Dam, and bad math. -- Penn Jillette

Paul7 · 08-18-2011, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Agreed, and Penn was clear about that in the text that you initially quoted, "even though this is impossible to say, and I have no authority to say this at all"

So why say it?

Sharkey · 08-18-2011, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

How odd, I've noticed that the posts from most Christians are not very positive towards atheism/atheists.

I was willing to let your belief in God go, but Carrot Top, c'mon.

-ArtificialGrape

See all those lights out on the strip. Those are powered by two things. The Hoover Dam, and bad math. -- Penn Jillette

You owe it to yourself to go see him. Really.

I would say the difference is that most Christians are on the defensive if you take an objective look at it. Obviously, I don't agree with atheism but you don't see me posting threads saying something that is disrespectful to your belief or lack thereof. Believe or don't. I'm just a messenger.
At the very least, make a valid argument other than Penn says no to God.

The other thing is that for a bunch of folks that don't believe, you sure spend a bunch of time here which I would think would be a waste of time. I mean you guys are so smart and figured it out. I guess the flip side is that most here just like to debate. It's not like either are gonna make converts to their beliefs.

Like I stated before, I just see a trend with the OP and I'm not the only one.

RC-RAMIE · 08-18-2011, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkey

You owe it to yourself to go see him. Really.

I would say the difference is that most Christians are on the defensive if you take an objective look at it. Obviously, I don't agree with atheism but you don't see me posting threads saying something that is disrespectful to your belief or lack thereof. Believe or don't. I'm just a messenger.
At the very least, make a valid argument other than Penn says no to God.

The other thing is that for a bunch of folks that don't believe, you sure spend a bunch of time here which I would think would be a waste of time. I mean you guys are so smart and figured it out. I guess the flip side is that most here just like to debate. It's not like either are gonna make converts to their beliefs.

Like I stated before, I just see a trend with the OP and I'm not the only one.

Take a min and read the article he wasn't be negative towards religion