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Old 08-20-2011, 18:35   #1
Dukeboy01
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Trouble brewing...

So it appears that the "Public Employee Pensions Are Robbing the City Blind" bandwagon is about to roll through my neck of the woods. I opened up the website of the Lexington Herald- Leader a little while ago and it appears they are updating their site for a big story on the Police and Fire pension system in the Sunday paper tommorrow.

Here's a link to the lead editorial cartoon. Note the date of August 21, 2011.
(And, yes, I'm Dukeboy everywhere I roam...)

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/08/20/1...tt-aug-21.html

There is also now a searchable database of pensions awarded in the last five years.

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/08/19/1...-pensions.html

Nothing good is coming. I can feel it.
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Old 08-20-2011, 19:00   #2
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Nope. Nothing good is coming for sure.

Many cities are already doing that. Many cities are planning to do the same.

Everybody's broke...Cities are claiming they're broke,things are a changing.

It's getting real ugly out there.
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Old 08-20-2011, 20:43   #3
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Let's start with our politicians' extremely lucrative compensation, benefits, and retirement, then start looking for some folks who want to be in politics for the RIGHT reasons, and not to fleece the public. With the right people in office, for the right reasons, we can fix this, including the stinking liberal judges. I fear that without this change, the worst is yet to come.

I'm vested in my retirement. Hopefully there is not much they can do to me, since thay have to honor the terms that I signed on under. Hopefully.
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Old 08-20-2011, 20:46   #4
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While we're on this subject, let's start a class-action lawsuit against our pitiful excuse for a government, forcing them to enact legislation that would bar anyone who receives any type of government assistance from voting, to eliminate a huge conflict of interest.

Atilla the Hun for President.

Actually, I like the thought of an Atilla/Dragoon ticket...
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Old 08-20-2011, 21:45   #5
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Actually, I like the thought of an Atilla/Dragoon ticket...
Make it Dragoon/Atilla and I'm on board! And Cochese will be head of their secret service detail.
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Old 08-20-2011, 21:50   #6
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Make it Dragoon/Atilla and I'm on board! And Cochese will be head of their secret service detail.
Thanks for catching that. Father/Son does make better sense than Son/Father.

Right on the money for head of Secret Service detail.
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:27   #7
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I'm vested in my retirement. Hopefully there is not much they can do to me, since thay have to honor the terms that I signed on under. Hopefully.

I have often wondered about that also (if my pension is safe, or not?).

I am collecting from one (1) 20 year police pension and I'm vested in another current police pension with the Florida State Retirement system (FRS).

Could things get so crazy that it would affect my City Police Pension?...let alone my current vested FRS pension?

Nobody knows yet. All I really do know is most Law Enforcement Agencies are NOT hiring and they can make any type of agreement for any new LEO who only wants to get into Law Enforcement at any cost.

Things are so unstable in the economy, that many people (including LEO's) dare not try retirement...which is stopping/bottle-necking the hiring and new jobs.

This topic really has my attention...It's a mess!
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:35   #8
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So let me see if I understand this situation correctly....

One of the reasons you take a job like police/fire even with the crappy pay is because you get a good pension, right?

So if they take the pension away, or cut it substantially, they're going to make up for the many years of crappy pay with a retroactive raise, right? Right???

Randy
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Old 08-21-2011, 12:24   #9
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So let me see if I understand this situation correctly....

One of the reasons you take a job like police/fire even with the crappy pay is because you get a good pension, right?

So if they take the pension away, or cut it substantially, they're going to make up for the many years of crappy pay with a retroactive raise, right? Right???

Randy

All I know is I took the job (in 1983) because I wanted a steady job, with good benefits. I remember friends and even my own brothers laughing at me for having, "Such a low paying job". They were even bragging about their six figure salaries all during the 80's and the 90's.

Now that they have spent all their money on fancy cars, European vacations, liposuction, etc. they find out they can't pay the $5000.00 + mortgage payments...that they got from refinancing their homes and spending the money...so they foreclose on their homes, walking away from a half million or more in debt....which was a BIG cause of the financial crisis.

So, I get gradual small raises as I stay in my career and get my police pension that was promised to me and that I was working waiting for for 20 years, taking all sorts of crap that comes with the job...and they're ready to tell me I don't deserve this pension.

They spent and wasted far more money that I ever made in their lifetime...they had their choices in life...and they want us to suffer with them?

That's the situation. If anybody can explain it better...please chime in.
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Old 08-21-2011, 13:04   #10
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I actually called the NC DOL about the wage/hour thing. For instance, they stopped paying our long term disability insurance payments. What cost the city 40 cents a week now costs me $6.50 a week. Is it a lot? No, but it cost them $20.80 a year and now it ends up costing me $338 a year. Something like a $358.80 swing in benefits. I asked the DOL how they could do it. They said that since it's a government agency, they can do whatever they want as long as they give you 24 hours notice before they do it.

They promised us raises and a cost of living increase each year. I'm still waiting for that to happen. They claim that due to the economy they don't have the money. They fail to mention they have $100 million unallocated dollars squirreled away in their funds (which is $20 million more than when they gave raises 5 years ago). So it's obvious they are just using the economy as an excuse to not give us a raise.

To the OP... the little blurb for the pension search says this:

Service vs. disability pensions
Police officers and firefighters can retire with service pensions after 20 years on the job. They can retire earlier with a tax-free disability pension if they convince pension officials that they no longer can work. Over the last five fiscal years, ending June 30, 38 percent of police and fire retirees were awarded disability pensions.

So is your pension safe? Nope, not at all. Not for any of us.
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Old 08-21-2011, 13:19   #11
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I'm just going to say it right now, before some mope comes in here and starts bashing us. Only a worthless idiot would try and take our pensions and benefits away. Go whine about us somewhere else, and call a talk radio host or one of the clones who follows them when someone breaks into your house.
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Old 08-21-2011, 13:51   #12
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Dukeboy,


I know Lexington is a bit different than CERS hazardous...can they change your benefits once enrolled in the plan? Statute prevents any changes to CERS once enrolled in a system, but can be made to NEW members down the road. The change from 20 to 25 for our plans is a good example.
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Old 08-21-2011, 14:09   #13
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When are all the people that are so fired up about the pension I earned and contributed to going to go out and yell and scream about all the money that is stolen and wasted by medicaid, welfare and unemployment abuse? C'mon
It's ok to bash the hardworking civil servant but don't go after the golden goose- the people dependent on the government. The earlier post was right. On public assistance = NO Voting Rights.
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Old 08-21-2011, 14:21   #14
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Just so the municipalities and the retarded public understand,

What goes around comes around.

Don't be surprised when you find out your friendly local policeman stops putting in any effort to his job. You burn his pathetic pay and his hard earned pension, they are not gonna care about your problems. They will just do what is necessary to get home everyday.

Peter Gibbons said it best:

Peter Gibbons: The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.
Bob Porter: Don't... don't care?
Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now.
Bob Slydell: I beg your pardon?
Peter Gibbons: Eight bosses.
Bob Slydell: Eight?
Peter Gibbons: Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled, that and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.
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Old 08-21-2011, 14:42   #15
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I worked hard and paid into the retirement system for 25 years.

You say that you are going broke and going to cut my pension?

That is YOUR fault you are going broke, not mine. I lived up to my end of the agreement.

We signed a contract, remember?

Pay me. Period.
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Old 08-21-2011, 14:58   #16
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Maybe it's time for some pissed-off public servants to run for office, eh?
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Old 08-21-2011, 14:59   #17
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I worked hard and paid into the retirement system for 25 years.

You say that you are going broke and going to cut my pension?

That is YOUR fault you are going broke, not mine. I lived up to my end of the agreement.

We signed a contract, remember?

Pay me. Period.
Quoted for truth. I'm waiting for it to happen at the federal level, if it hasn't already and we just haven't been told about it.
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Old 08-21-2011, 16:35   #18
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Well, the article was as bad as I expected.

http://www.kentucky.com/2011/08/21/1...opular#wgt=pop

I've rebutted some of the nonsense in in the comments section.
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Old 08-21-2011, 16:38   #19
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Dukeboy,


I know Lexington is a bit different than CERS hazardous...can they change your benefits once enrolled in the plan? Statute prevents any changes to CERS once enrolled in a system, but can be made to NEW members down the road. The change from 20 to 25 for our plans is a good example.
The honest answer is probably not, but no one will know for sure until they try it. The case law/ legislative finding of fact that covers you in CERS doesn't specifically address Lexington since we are a seperate entity. Common sense would tell you that the same principle would eventually win out, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't have to have a long, drawn out legal battle to prove it if the city officials decide to get squirrelly.

ETA: KRS 67A.640 kinda covers it, but it's not specific enough for my taste. It does go back unchanged to the 1974 legislation that created the Urban- County form of government, so that's a plus.

Quote:
67A.640 Obligations of government.
It is the intention of KRS 67A.360 to 67A.690 that the payment of the required contributions by the government shall include all allowances, annuities, benefits, and administration expenses and shall be the obligation of the government.
Effective: July 1, 1974
History: Created 1974 Ky. Acts ch. 106, sec. 29, effective July 1, 1974.
ETA2: KRS 67A.655 lays out the procedure that they could use to move us to CERS, but it requires them to have fully funded the system before they can do it, so that's not going to happen any time soon.

Quote:
67A.655 Transition to County Employees Retirement System.
The legislative body in an urban-county government may issue the appropriate order, pursuant to KRS 78.530(1), directing participation for policemen and firefighters in the County Employees Retirement System. All new employees who would have been granted membership in the policemen's and firefighter's retirement fund of the urban-county government shall be members of the County Employees Retirement System. All active members of the policemen's and firefighter's retirement fund of the urban-county government at the time of transition to the County Employees Retirement System may choose membership in the County Employees Retirement System or may retain membership in the local retirement fund, but the legislative body may withdraw its order prior to the effective date if the number of active members choosing to transfer is not sufficient to fully fund the balance of the cost of transition after available local pension assets are included.
Reading the section that I bolded, it makes it sound like the people who are currently active would have a choice as to whether or not they wanted to enter CERS or not. It's still not strong enough for my liking.
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Old 08-21-2011, 16:49   #20
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Politicians should always be the first to get hit with cuts, keeps the BS down.
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