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Old 03-08-2015, 14:10   #1
nohocop
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Pocket Carry and the 4 Safety Rules

I recently heard an opinion from a noted firearms expert to the effect that pocket carry routinely violates one of the gun safety rules, namely never let your muzzle cover anything you are not willing to kill or destroy. Every time you sit across the table from someone at dinner or Starbucks or wherever, the natural seating position with a firearm in your pocket will inevitably end up with the business end of the gun being pointed at a human. For that reason this expert is adamantly against pocket carry.

Does anyone ever worry about that? With good pocket holsters I just don't see how the trigger can be pressed, and there are literally millions of us who have to pocket carry for various reasons (such as being at work in a formal work environment just does not facilitate an IWB or OWB holster). Often pocket carry is the only option.

Would love to know if any of y'all have been wringing your hands on this and what you have done to deal with it.
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Old 03-08-2015, 14:20   #2
pAZ Ron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohocop View Post
Every time you sit across the table from someone at dinner or Starbucks or wherever, the natural seating position with a firearm in your pocket will inevitably end up with the business end of the gun being pointed at a human…. Often pocket carry is the only option.

Would love to know if any of y'all have been wringing your hands on this and what you have done to deal with it.
Concerned but not wringing my hands about it. Still continue to pocket carry when it is so hot it is the most practical option.

Found 2 ways to minimize the "pointing". One is watching the direction my leg is pointing to minimize the problem. The second way is with my Recluse pocket holster, I found I can make a minor adjustment of the holster direction so that the holster is pointed down toward the floor inside my pocket when I am going to be seated for awhile with people in front of me. Then tweak it again when I am standing to point down again.

Works very well in even a slightly loose pocket. Not so well in tight fitting jeans pockets. (I am talking about pocket carrying a P380. Don't think I could make that adjustment with a "pocket" 9mm)

(If you want to get technical, with pocket carry the gun is pointed toward your own foot a lot of the time also. So literally following the 4 rules, you'd avoid it for that reason too.)

Last edited by pAZ Ron; 03-08-2015 at 14:35..
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Old 03-08-2015, 14:21   #3
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As long as the gun is in a good pocket holster that completely covers the trigger and trigger guard than I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 03-08-2015, 15:07   #4
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I recently heard an opinion from a noted firearms expert to the effect that pocket carry routinely violates one of the gun safety rules, namely never let your muzzle cover anything you are not willing to kill or destroy.
Heaven save us from "firearms experts".
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Old 03-08-2015, 15:07   #5
TFLWYO
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A holstered gun is always pointed at something, and that something may well be something one would not want to destroy.
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Old 03-08-2015, 16:08   #6
nohocop
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A holstered gun in an OWB or IWB holster is almost always pointed at the ground. No comparison to a pocket carry. That being said pocket carry with a quality holster seems very safe to me and I was surprised to hear Tom Gresham of Gun Talk come out so strongly against it.
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Old 03-08-2015, 16:10   #7
AgentM79
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Safe pocket carry requires a pocket holster. It also requires the shooter to be extra-vigilant about "TF outta TG" during re-holstering. Appropriate practice is required for an efficient pocket-draw as well.

It's also understood that NOTHING else goes in the gun pocket. Easier said than done if pocket carry isn't "routine", because you will be used to putting non-gun things in your dominant-side hip pocket.

Years back, I took to carrying my Kel-Tec P32 in my opposite pocket to ensure I had a gun accessible to either hand. Not a bad strategy if the pocket gun is a back-up.

Gun selection is also a component of pocket carry. The 2" square-butt S&W M36 (DA/SA with a hammer spur) is a lot harder to pocket-carry than a round-butt enclosed-hammer Centennial or Bodyguard. If a revolver is carried, pay attention to your grip selection. Wood and hard synthetics beat rubber for this purpose. Remember, you CAN fire a Bodyguard or Centennial THROUGH a pocket in an emergency..................
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Old 03-08-2015, 16:16   #8
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This reminds of a thread from several years ago. Someone posted a pic of some people shooting Rifles in the prone position and pointed out that their holstered handguns were pointing uprange. The OP got roasted pretty well if I recall.

In my opinion, a properly holstered handgun is no threat to anyone.

Think of all those guns in the counter at the gun shop! They are all pointing right at everyone that walks by! We must stop this madness!
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Old 03-08-2015, 16:39   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohocop View Post
A holstered gun in an OWB or IWB holster is almost always pointed at the ground. No comparison to a pocket carry. That being said pocket carry with a quality holster seems very safe to me and I was surprised to hear Tom Gresham of Gun Talk come out so strongly against it.
What if you're sitting in your car? The gun is pointing at all kinds of critical things.

What if you're walking around in a multi-story building? The gun could be pointing at people below you.

This is much ado about nothing IMO- the same as people freaking out about shoulder holsters pointing at the people behind the wearer.

Of course it pays to be safe. But IMO the aspect of pointing is most pertinent when an un-holstered gun is being held in the hand. Not in regards to a holstered handgun not held in the hand.
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Old 03-08-2015, 16:40   #10
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Think of all those guns in the counter at the gun shop! They are all pointing right at everyone that walks by! We must stop this madness!
But those guns are being handled by "experts", so we know our crotch isn't in any danger as we walk by.
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Old 03-08-2015, 16:56   #11
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On rare occasions I pocket carry a snubbie in a Blackhawk pocket holster; I have no safety concerns about carrying this way. Keep your booger hook off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
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Old 03-08-2015, 17:07   #12
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Originally Posted by TFLWYO View Post
A holstered gun is always pointed at something, and that something may well be something one would not want to destroy.
That is the reality. I'm seated now, AIWB.
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Old 03-08-2015, 17:10   #13
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The four rules are a good guideline, in general, but don't really apply outside of the square, cold shooting range.

Short easy to remember safety rules don't really apply to the complexities of all the different types and styles and configurations of firearms and the various ways to carry them.

Experts. :(


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Old 03-08-2015, 17:37   #14
nohocop
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Whenever there is a negligent discharge one of those rules was broken. Pretty etched in stone in my book. Not to be trifled with.
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Old 03-08-2015, 17:44   #15
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What so-called expert? Is he ashamed to be ridiculed?

What does this have to do with General Glocking?
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Old 03-08-2015, 18:13   #16
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Yeah i get the rules, but to me the "don't point it at things" rule is kind of exempted when a gun is holstered. Not that I go intentionally pointing holstered guns at people, but if it is a proper holster and there is no other debris or factors in play I don't see how it would be an issue. I'm sure there is extraordinary circumstances that could cause an issue, but I think some common sense and general safety otherwise a gun in a holster is safe.
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Old 03-08-2015, 18:29   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
What if you're sitting in your car? The gun is pointing at all kinds of critical things.

What if you're walking around in a multi-story building? The gun could be pointing at people below you.

This is much ado about nothing IMO- the same as people freaking out about shoulder holsters pointing at the people behind the wearer.

Of course it pays to be safe. But IMO the aspect of pointing is most pertinent when an un-holstered gun is being held in the hand. Not in regards to a holstered handgun not held in the hand.
AGREE.

Modern guns only go off when someone pulls the trigger. If your pocket holster covers the trigger properly (mine does), you only need to get paranoid when your hand is in the pocket.

There is no way to carry a pistol in a conventional holster without it sometimes being pointed at people or other important things as AH.74 pointed out. That's life.
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Old 03-08-2015, 18:34   #18
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Undoubtedly one of the youtubers who spends the first two minutes of his video convincing me that his gun is clear. I DON'T CARE! From where I'm sitting in front of my computer I am in ZERO danger from you being negligent. Just get on with it already.
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Old 03-08-2015, 18:45   #19
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As long as it is in a holster it's safe. And generally nothing else should be in the pocket with the gun.

I am not too worried about it.
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Old 03-08-2015, 19:32   #20
nohocop
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Yeah neither am I. Was just a bit floored that Tom Gresham, whom I respect, would in essence, declare pocket carry reckless.
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