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Old 08-24-2011, 13:26   #1
emt1581
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Fox Labs still among the best?

I need to order more spray for my wife and I. Is Fox still among the best if not the best or is there another brand to look at?

Also, we usually get a 3.XXoz can with a flip top (has a tensioned top you slip your thumb under).

Who generally has the best price on them and is there anything new in the past few years brand or model-wise I might want to look at?

Thanks!

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Old 08-24-2011, 15:30   #2
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I have no idea anymore. I haven't sprayed anyone since Christmas Day 2008, and that was because my Taser was down for service. I remember using spray all the time prior to 2004 when I was first issued a Taser, but it was never Fox. I always meant to get some to try out, but it never happened.
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Old 08-24-2011, 15:32   #3
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selfdefenseproducts.com used to have them, so I'm also interested to know where to buy them
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Old 08-24-2011, 20:03   #4
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I use FOX, haven't yet found anything better. I think my last can came from either officerstore.com or copsplus.com, I got it at the same time as a new OC holder.
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Old 08-24-2011, 20:32   #5
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My personal field experience is that it all works the same. One may be hotter than another on paper, but they're all hot. I have found that it doesn't work at all MOST of the time until the person is physically brought under control anyway. Once the adrenaline stops pumping so hard and those nerves start realizing how bad it burns, then they whine and cry and cough and spit.

FWIW I had only ever had one OC deployment that I would consider "successful" (where OC had the near immediate effect of stopping resistance) prior to this year. This year, I'm two for two...and that was with plain 'ol red can Def Tec.
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Old 08-24-2011, 20:39   #6
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I've had nothing but great service from Baumshoe LE Supply. I've bought a case or two of Fox products from them and they've been top notch on both price and service.

http://www.baumshoe.com/servlet/the-...abs/Categories
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Old 08-24-2011, 21:00   #7
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BR, good food for thought...

I guess my respect for OC is somewhat tainted by my exposure to some Fox. I've not had the cajones to spray myself, but I was unknowingly exposed to a small amount via a contaminated object. No adrenaline at all invovled. In short order it was: Cough. Cough-cough. "Hmm, throat tickling." Cough cough cough *eyes run, nose runs, throat burns* "GAAAAH, what the bloody hell!!!?!?"

I figured if I had that experience from what amounted to secondhand exposure, the effect of a full on blast of it would be...something else...
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Old 08-24-2011, 21:21   #8
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Fox is good stuff. Its what I used with my previous department. I was sprayed with it and it hurts like a mother. (even got it in my mouth and down my throat) I was able to find through it and perform various offensive and defensive task with relative "ease". The real pain started with decon when I had nothing else to think about but how bad it hurt.

My personal experience with OC is like DaBigBR's. I saw one crazy MF'er wipe it out of his eyes, let out a manical laugh and ask, "what'd ya do that for?" My personal favorite was when a coworker sprayed a dog near an open window with a fan. The fan sucked it up and blew it into the house. Various other fans indoors spread it about. Cleared the place out pretty fast!
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:14   #9
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Sabre Red. It hurts. Bad.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:43   #10
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Originally Posted by scottydl View Post
Sabre Red. It hurts. Bad.
This.

Although like most here, my experience is this: OC hurts cops, not drones. I've never observed the stuff actually "work" on anyone but the cops it rubbed off on.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:51   #11
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This.

Although like most here, my experience is this: OC hurts cops, not drones. I've never observed the stuff actually "work" on anyone but the cops it rubbed off on.
What's the solution then? Tasers are a possibility but you only get one shot. I have seen what yall are talking about though...no effect at all. Except at an EMS conference. An officer deployed an inert unit that was filled with compressed air (fogger) into the room....all the old folks and women cleared the room like Jeopardy was coming on or there was a sale on shoes...choking, pissing and moaning that they couldn't breathe....

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:05   #12
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Originally Posted by emt1581 View Post
What's the solution then? Tasers are a possibility but you only get one shot. I have seen what yall are talking about though...no effect at all. Except at an EMS conference. An officer deployed an inert unit that was filled with compressed air (fogger) into the room....all the old folks and women cleared the room like Jeopardy was coming on or there was a sale on shoes...choking, pissing and moaning that they couldn't breathe....

-Emt1581
We have only had TASERs for a year but they're getting used a good bit. Being a good sized (~750 sworn) urban department we have a lot of back up and usually just use what I call the "blue tsunami" move and bury the joker in bodies.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:08   #13
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Quote:
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This.

Although like most here, my experience is this: OC hurts cops, not drones. I've never observed the stuff actually "work" on anyone but the cops it rubbed off on.
I've always seen it have SOME effect. It was rarely the "lay down and cry like a baby" effect, but always something. One guy wanted to fight me and I sprayed him, he decided he'd rather run. Even the crazy guy shut his eyes for a bit, which was enough to grab him and get him in cuffs. I never count on it working, but it is nice when it does do something.
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:09   #14
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Quote:
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We have only had TASERs for a year but they're getting used a good bit. Being a good sized (~750 sworn) urban department we have a lot of back up and usually just use what I call the "blue tsunami" move and bury the joker in bodies.
I've heard that referred to as the "pig pile" as well.
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:38   #15
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I don't doubt the effectiveness of Fox, for what it's worth, or pretty much any other spray for that matter. We had a guy from our department get hit with it in the academy and he ended up with a nasty chemical burn on his lip from it. I'm just not convinced that it's not "overkill"...in other words, how much hotter can something be than the "average OC" and have any greater effect.

I've always thought that Sabre Red was the best smelling OC out there, right up to the point that you start coughing.
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Old 08-25-2011, 17:26   #16
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CopsPlus.com appears to carry Fox Labs
http://www.copsplus.com/pepper-spray...y=1&perpage=20
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Old 08-25-2011, 19:36   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent6-3/8 View Post
Fox is good stuff. Its what I used with my previous department. I was sprayed with it and it hurts like a mother. (even got it in my mouth and down my throat) I was able to find through it and perform various offensive and defensive task with relative "ease". The real pain started with decon when I had nothing else to think about but how bad it hurt.

My personal experience with OC is like DaBigBR's. I saw one crazy MF'er wipe it out of his eyes, let out a manical laugh and ask, "what'd ya do that for?" My personal favorite was when a coworker sprayed a dog near an open window with a fan. The fan sucked it up and blew it into the house. Various other fans indoors spread it about. Cleared the place out pretty fast!
I could tell a story about an attack of flatulence and a series of fans, but I won't.....
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Old 08-25-2011, 19:43   #18
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I like the smell of Def Tec in the red can. I used to huff a bit now and then to stay somewhat immune to the fumes. Sabre Red to me is just downright rough to breathe. Maybe I'm just a lightweight.

There used to be a table on the Net with the different brands and their strengths. It showed Sabre Red as one of the hottest, and Fox not far behind. Def Tec was pretty low on the list. I have heard that Sabre Red is slow to take effect, and that Fox is one of the quickest to take effect.

Rumor has it that a good shot of Def Tec on a toilet seat can bring about a good bit of consternation.
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Old 08-26-2011, 14:58   #19
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Fox Labs and Sabre Red both are excellent. Any more heat won't make a difference due to the effects of sensory overload, however more heat will prolong the BG's recovery time (which may not be a bad thing for a civilian). As far as the "mythical" immediate incapacitation properties of OC -there is no such thing. I've used OC in the field at least 30 times starting in 1985 with the original Cap-Stun and the only things that you can count on is that 1) little effect for the first 5-8 seconds. 2) That you will have no idea how the BG will respond... I've had them drop and cry, stand there and tell me how rude that was, to being punched three times in the head before I could even side step... OC is a great product however have a plan B and C ready.
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Old 08-26-2011, 16:06   #20
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And remember that NO less-than-lethal option should ever be intended as "immediate incapacitation" that requires no additional actions. For law enforcement, OC/taser/baton/whatever just buys you a few seconds of distraction so you can handcuff, etc. and really get the person under control. For a civilian in self-defense mode, it gives you a few seconds to run, get away, call for help, etc. Be prepared for what needs to happen AFTER you deploy that spray.
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