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Old 08-29-2011, 19:34   #1
Drjones
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New system I built is crashing

Hey guys.

So the new PC I built myself is randomly crashing.

Here's the thread with my specs: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1353613

It has been randomly shutting down, then when it reboots, it says "Reboot and select proper device...or insert boot media in selected device."

Today when I came home, it had a BSOD, said Kernel_Data_Inpage_Error and a bunch of other numbers I'm too lazy to type.

I have had a mild overclock on it, perhaps I'm not doing that right? In any case, I just cleared my CMOS and am in the process of creating a system image so that I can just reinstall Windows from scratch and then recover from that image.

Any thoughts as to what could be going on?? Again, totally random shutdowns; it usually happens when the PC is unattended.

I've stressed it a bit (not too much because I need better cooling) with Prime95 & some other programs, it holds up fine. But then I leave it alone, and kaboom.

Any ideas are much appreciated.

Oh, and yes, all Windows updates have been installed, all my drivers are 100% up to date.
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Old 08-29-2011, 19:52   #2
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Sounds like a HW issue. Recheck cabling from controller to HD and re-seat memory or check memory one module at a time.

Run CHKDSK.

Check your error logs.
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Old 08-29-2011, 20:37   #3
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Is it shutting down, or rebooting? That makes a difference. If it is just shutting down then you either have a heat problem or a power problem. If it is just rebooting then I would burn the latest memtest iso and let it run for 20 minutes or so. Also, go into the system properties and make sure and uncheck "automatically restart on system failure" so if it is rebooting we can see the BSOD code in its entirety.
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Old 08-29-2011, 22:36   #4
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I dunno SRHoades - 12Gb of ram I would definitely run overnight on that one...

+1 on the check error logs before you reformat and reinstall.

Then, run at stock speed and see what you get.

CPUID has a HW Monitor that will tell you what your temps are. Get a baseline on temps with no overclock and a stable system.

You may have been a little light on Ram or CPU voltage with your overclock. Sometimes the ram will write bad data and the system will BSOD on you.

You can always goto EventID.net and see if you can decode any messages in your error log.

This is the part where overclocking can be a real P.I.T.A. I used to burnin test with Prime95 and SuperPI and mix that with MemTest86 for a couple of weeks - All this on AMD systems, and AMD systems when they fail an overclock will often scramble MBR forcing a reinstall... Nothing like being an expert installer!

So - try it stock for a while and see what happens.

Good Luck!

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Old 08-29-2011, 23:12   #5
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Well, too late.
I created a system image using Win7s built-in utility, formatted and reinstalled. I was in the process of doing that while I posted this thread from the PC that my new rig replaced.

And I absolutely cannot restore from the image I created.

Not a HUGE deal, as I double-backed up all my data before doing all of this (and I can mount the Image as a VHD) but it's a PITA nonetheless.

On the other hand, I had a problem where my system was taking FOREVER to connect to my NAS; that problem seems to be gone.

At least now I know I have a fresh, clean system. I'll keep it at stock speeds and also run the new version of Memtest....
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Old 08-29-2011, 23:31   #6
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When you build a new machine - especially if you "mildly overclock" it - you should thoroughly (24 hours or more) test your RAM. Memtest86+ is a good tool for that.

Also, it's a good idea to check the cooling system. Heat the CPU with 100% load and see how high the temperature will rise.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:01   #7
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Quote:
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I dunno SRHoades - 12Gb of ram I would definitely run overnight on that one...


Patrick
For the complete test yes, but faulty RAM shows up rather quick.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:06   #8
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1) Back off the overclocking, run memtest86 overnight. If that passes, then
2) find yourself a CPU torture test and run that overnight.

Have you ensured that all components are properly seated? When you installed the processor, did you use the manufacturer-supplied thermal paste, or clean it off and apply a good coating? Is the heat sink on the processor 100% functional?

Have you done a complete & thorough scan & repair of your boot drive?

This is what I'd do to begin debugging.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:22   #9
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I guess I was too late to this party.
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:00   #10
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I guess I was too late to this party.
Your computer must be slow, try overclocking it.
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Old 08-30-2011, 21:36   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams View Post
Your computer must be slow, try overclocking it.

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Old 08-30-2011, 21:40   #12
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Ok, computer has been running perfectly since last night, no overclock. It has been on all day, no issues.

My Mobo came with 2 6GBPS SATA cables & 2 standard ones - I switched to the other cable for my HD. Also, the cables seem a bit loose where they plug into the mobo - usually SATA cables fit fairly snugly, but not these....they do have the little clip on them that holds them into place though.

I also haven't installed ANY windows updates, nor updated any of the drivers.
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Old 08-30-2011, 21:54   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams View Post
When you build a new machine - especially if you "mildly overclock" it - you should thoroughly (24 hours or more) test your RAM. Memtest86+ is a good tool for that.

Also, it's a good idea to check the cooling system. Heat the CPU with 100% load and see how high the temperature will rise.

I will download the latest version of MemTest & get crackin'....

With Prime95 and the OC I had it at, temp rises up to about 90C, then I freak out & stop the program.

I gotta get an aftermarket cooler....or should this thing even be getting that hot with the factory cooler??

Now with no OC, it's only getting up to 80C.

I really need a better cooler, I know...and another case fan....
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Old 08-30-2011, 23:17   #14
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Here are my random thoughts on the subject...

Maximum core temperature of 90C is OK. Above 90 would get me worried.

Inexpensive aftermarket coolers are no better than the original OEM cooler.

Modern CPUs are failsafe and will not (should not) burn up if the cooling system fails.
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Old 08-31-2011, 01:02   #15
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WoW - those i7 processors cook! 100C max!

That's crazy! Yer lookin at a Corsair closed loop system for sure!

Daaaannng...

And I thought my 125W Quad Core AMD was *HOT*

When Dr Jones said 80C, and you said Citizen says 90C I thought y'all were drinking too much tonight!!! But nope, 100C is the max thermal load...

Just Crazy. Gonna be quite handy in the Winter Time!

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Old 08-31-2011, 09:36   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams View Post
Here are my random thoughts on the subject...

Maximum core temperature of 90C is OK. Above 90 would get me worried.

Inexpensive aftermarket coolers are no better than the original OEM cooler.

Modern CPUs are failsafe and will not (should not) burn up if the cooling system fails.

Yeah, but you shouldn't be running it that hot though, right? Everything I've read says you have to keep your parts as cool as possible for longevity.

And this is the cooler I was looking at, has received pretty rave reviews on every website I've seen: http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-...4804861&sr=8-1
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:41   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McJohnny View Post
1) Back off the overclocking, run memtest86 overnight. If that passes, then
2) find yourself a CPU torture test and run that overnight.

Have you ensured that all components are properly seated? When you installed the processor, did you use the manufacturer-supplied thermal paste, or clean it off and apply a good coating? Is the heat sink on the processor 100% functional?

Have you done a complete & thorough scan & repair of your boot drive?

This is what I'd do to begin debugging.

*SEEMS* perfectly stable without the OC, and not sure if switching SATA cables helped or not....sure hasn't seemed to hurt anything.

I was pretty darn careful when I seated the CPU, and have checked the RAM several times.

I *think* I might have used a little TOO MUCH thermal paste; the stock CPU fan came with a tiny bit, and I applied a little more....may have put too much, based on what I'm reading.

As for the faulty RAM, in my experience, when RAM is bad, it's usually pretty clear; pretty frequent system freezing, etc. I ran a diagnostic tool that I downloaded from MS direct - not sure how accurate it will be since it gives some message about not being fully compatible with over 4GB RAM & I have 12.

As for scan & repair the HD, what tools do you recommend? Windows' built-in utility?

Thank you!
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:29   #18
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Quote:
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Yeah, but you shouldn't be running it that hot though, right? Everything I've read says you have to keep your parts as cool as possible for longevity.
If your computer runs near idle most of the time (like mine), I would be perfectly happy with 90C under maximum load.

If you run a busy server or donate your spare CPU time to distributed computing, I would improve the cooling system to knock off 10-15 degrees.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:59   #19
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As for the faulty RAM, in my experience, when RAM is bad, it's usually pretty clear; pretty frequent system freezing, etc.
Not always. I have seen faulty RAM that ran stable most of the time. Then it would glitch in the worst possible moment... and the user would blame Bill Gates.

Quote:
I ran a diagnostic tool that I downloaded from MS direct - not sure how accurate it will be since it gives some message about not being fully compatible with over 4GB RAM & I have 12.
Memtest86+ does not have any problems with my 24 gigs.

Quote:
As for scan & repair the HD, what tools do you recommend? Windows' built-in utility?
If you need to check the file system, use the Windows utility. If you suspect your disk has physical problems, check the SMART status (a good program for that is Crystal Disk Info). Then try diagnostic utilities from the drive manufacturer.
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Old 08-31-2011, 23:10   #20
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Well, I was delighted to see that it crashed again today...

Running MemTest now for a little over 2 hours now, no errors yet.

Anything special I need to do, or just boot & let it go?

Any other ideas on what could be causing this? I already pulled the HD the other day & tested it a bit with a few tools, didn't see any errors....will test it again for sure.

WTF else could be causing this? Should I update the BIOS?
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Old 08-31-2011, 23:11   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srhoades View Post
Is it shutting down, or rebooting? That makes a difference. If it is just shutting down then you either have a heat problem or a power problem. If it is just rebooting then I would burn the latest memtest iso and let it run for 20 minutes or so. Also, go into the system properties and make sure and uncheck "automatically restart on system failure" so if it is rebooting we can see the BSOD code in its entirety.

Yes, it's rebooting, I did uncheck the reboot automatically box.
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Old 08-31-2011, 23:16   #22
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So, I was pulling the HD out of an old HP tower tonight, and man, the SATA cables are plugged TIGHTLY into the ports - remember that I said the SATA cables that came with my MOBO seem rather loose in the ports....could it be something that simple??

Any recommendations for higher-quality cables?
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Old 08-31-2011, 23:56   #23
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Quote:
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So, I was pulling the HD out of an old HP tower tonight, and man, the SATA cables are plugged TIGHTLY into the ports - remember that I said the SATA cables that came with my MOBO seem rather loose in the ports....could it be something that simple??

Any recommendations for higher-quality cables?
I have seen many issues with HDD cables. When I sent out a new HDD to a customer for a supposedly bad drive, I also included a new cable. I'd say about 15%-20% of the time the Sata cable or connection was the culprit.
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Old 09-01-2011, 01:19   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detectorist View Post
I have seen many issues with HDD cables. When I sent out a new HDD to a customer for a supposedly bad drive, I also included a new cable. I'd say about 15%-20% of the time the Sata cable or connection was the culprit.

I just upgraded the Firmware on my SSD. Was 2.06, upgraded to 2.11. Supposed to be much better from a performance and stability standpoint.

We'll see....I have a feeling it's gotta be either the RAM or more likely the SSD.

This might well be the last OCZ drive I buy, especially in light of what an enormous PITA it was to do the upgrade.....holy cow....
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Old 09-01-2011, 04:37   #25
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Here is what I would do to troubleshoot the instability... Slightly increase the RAM clock frequency and see if that makes it fail. In my last computer I actually had to downclock the memory to make it stable.

As for SATA cables, I've seen them as loose as [insert your favorite reference here]. Never caused a problem. But it won't hurt to try a different cable anyway.
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