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Old 09-13-2011, 06:40   #41
Chuck TX
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Everybody should be able to sign a really bad contract and have the opportunity to lose half of what they own, up to and including future earnings.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:43   #42
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Originally Posted by nelamvr6 View Post
You must be kidding!
No, I am attempting to discuss the issue with you as an intelligent adult. Want to continue?

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Check out every single blue law anywhere in this country... they all mandate restrictions on Sunday. You think the choice of that day is coincidental?
OK, take a deep breath. Now, I don't have time to "Check out every single blue law anywhere in this country", so how about you specifying one or two instances in which government is making laws based on religion. Present your position clearly and unemotionally and let's discuss it.

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If religion wasn't in government, why would we even be debating gay marriage? The only objections to gay marriage are based on religious beliefs.
Marriage is regulated by the government in order to provide for the children of those marriages. Many people object to gay marriage because it doesn't promote childrearing. It is not solely for religious reasons.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:44   #43
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Originally Posted by nelamvr6 View Post
That specific phrase is not found in the constitution, but the constitution does prohibit the establishment of an official religion.

In the First Amendment we find:




The separation phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of the constitution, and the intent of the constitution's framers is clear, as it's spelled out in the first amendment.

No matter how much religious zealots would like to drag us back into ignorance, we will not have an official religion,and there WILL be a wall of separation between church and state.
Don't even bother.

Convincing the zealots that the Christian founders understood that no religion should be forced upon its citizens by the State, is like trying to convince the crippled that Benny Hinn can't really heal them.
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Last edited by eracer; 09-13-2011 at 06:44..
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:46   #44
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I have a transgender niece.......ever since she was a toddler (2 or 3 years old) she fought her mother when she tried to put a dress on her proclaiming "mommy, I'm a BOY, I don't want to wear a dress". I specifically remember her saying this a few times.

This was NOT her choice.......I truly believe that there is something chemical or biological in why she wants to be the opposite sex. I also support her, as does her mother. She loves her child no matter what gender she is.

I also agree that being gay is NOT a choice in most cases. It's NATURE....not NURTURE.

I have had a gay guy friend of mine say "do you think I wanted to be gay and have to go through life where society doesn't accept??....I was with a girl in HS and getting intimate with her made me SICK....physically sick".

So there you have it.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:46   #45
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God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve!

The United States was never a christian nation and will never be a christian nation. - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:12   #46
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The NC House has decided to let voters decide next May as to whether or not they want to add a provision to the state constitution that defines marriage between one man and one woman.

I was just curious as to whether or not your state has a similar provision in your states constitution?

http://www.witn.com/home/headlines/129638638.html
Yes we did and yes it passed.
Too many Southern Baptists here to think that it wouldn't.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:28   #47
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All the people here criing that it is against god, you need to remember some of those teachings you are criing about. Something like People in glass houses should not throw rocks maybe not exactly that but I know its says something about throw'n rocks.

Also I does not come out and say it but Your god gave people free will to choose so who are you to so somebody can not choose.

I think the dems. should just propose a ban on gay unions and attach a bann on everything Gun to it. Then all of the bible beaters could choose guns or gays.

And for all you christians Matthew 5:22 is a good place to start.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:37   #48
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Originally Posted by nelamvr6 View Post
That specific phrase is not found in the constitution, but the constitution does prohibit the establishment of an official religion.

The separation phrase was coined by Thomas Jefferson, one of the framers of the constitution, and the intent of the constitution's framers is clear, as it's spelled out in the first amendment.

No matter how much religious zealots would like to drag us back into ignorance, we will not have an official religion,and there WILL be a wall of separation between church and state.
One point of clarification: TJ was not a framer of the Constitution. He wrote the Declaration of Independence, but was in France during the summer of 1787 when the Constitutional Convention met in Philadelphia.

As to church vs. state, one could argue that the framers were more concerned with the state co-opting religion for its political ends (as in the Church of England), than with religion (in a generic sense) influencing government. Hence, we have "In God We Trust" on our currency.

Note in the First Amendment the phrase "establishment of religion." "Establishment" was understood by the framers to refer to a state church, such as the Church of England (ie, the Establishment).
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:52   #49
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Originally Posted by ATL Peach Girl View Post
I have a transgender niece.......ever since she was a toddler (2 or 3 years old) she fought her mother when she tried to put a dress on her proclaiming "mommy, I'm a BOY, I don't want to wear a dress". I specifically remember her saying this a few times.

This was NOT her choice.......I truly believe that there is something chemical or biological in why she wants to be the opposite sex. I also support her, as does her mother. She loves her child no matter what gender she is.

I also agree that being gay is NOT a choice in most cases. It's NATURE....not NURTURE.

I have had a gay guy friend of mine say "do you think I wanted to be gay and have to go through life where society doesn't accept??....I was with a girl in HS and getting intimate with her made me SICK....physically sick".

So there you have it.
I agree..."born this way".
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:03   #50
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Originally Posted by morrismma View Post
All the people here criing that it is against god, you need to remember some of those teachings you are criing about. Something like People in glass houses should not throw rocks maybe not exactly that but I know its says something about throw'n rocks.

Also I does not come out and say it but Your god gave people free will to choose so who are you to so somebody can not choose.

I think the dems. should just propose a ban on gay unions and attach a bann on everything Gun to it. Then all of the bible beaters could choose guns or gays.

And for all you christians Matthew 5:22 is a good place to start.

So I guess Theology wasn't your strong suit.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:15   #51
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I would say on balance that the government has been involved in far more promotion of humanist ideas than religious ones, especially for the last 50 years or so. Many people give great lip service to separating church and state, except for the church of liberalism, which is promoted by the state at every turn.
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Old 09-13-2011, 08:58   #52
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So I guess Theology wasn't your strong suit.
Well thats the funny thing about religion and the bible. I could go to 10000 different christian church and all of them would have a different view on something. I could ask Millions of christians their interpretation on any verse and they would be differrent. So you tell me were in that post I was lacking in Theology so that I may better my point of view.
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:16   #53
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Why they don't just accept "Civil Union" and end with it? They won't because they want to be on par with the straight people. Sorry they will never get to it. Sorry we gotta to be discrimination agaisnt gay, like or not then move to different country.
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:36   #54
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Originally Posted by morrismma View Post
Well thats the funny thing about religion and the bible. I could go to 10000 different christian church and all of them would have a different view on something. I could ask Millions of christians their interpretation on any verse and they would be differrent. So you tell me were in that post I was lacking in Theology so that I may better my point of view.
Well for one, there is nothing in the Bible about glass houses and rocks- that is a proverb.
Millions of Christians will indeed have a million interpretations, but the one constant is that the Bible does not change. Whenever a cause du jour erupts, many Christians interpret the Bible and manipulate their interpretation to fit what they see as a needed change.
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:36   #55
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Why they don't just accept "Civil Union" and end with it? They won't because they want to be on par with the straight people. Sorry they will never get to it. Sorry we gotta to be discrimination agaisnt gay, like or not then move to different country.
Why should they settle for anything? Are they less of a person not to be on par with straight people? Why not make it legal there is no reason not to and then anybody that does not like Gay marrage being legal can move to another country?

ETA: Why would anybody strive for something more? lets all just give up sit on our couches and defficate on ourselfs.

Last edited by morrismma; 09-13-2011 at 09:38..
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Old 09-13-2011, 09:54   #56
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Well for one, there is nothing in the Bible about glass houses and rocks- that is a proverb.
Millions of Christians will indeed have a million interpretations, but the one constant is that the Bible does not change. Whenever a cause du jour erupts, many Christians interpret the Bible and manipulate their interpretation to fit what they see as a needed change.
Yes I now they didnt have glass houses. John 8:7 I think says "He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her." . Same idea of the glass house, My point is everybody saying that it is a sin need to look at themselves and see that they commit sins as well. (Please do tell me where I was laking again) Also lets look at Matthew 7:1-6 I thank you may learn something.

The Bible does not change is my point. Now please tell me, who gets to deside what it means? I think somebody like maybe King james or how about the catholic church. We can agree that they would not want to change the original text at all for their sake right?

Can you please tell me what this word arsenokoit mean? Does it mean homosexual in the meaning we use it? Could it have been translated wrong?
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:21   #57
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The glass houses thing was likely referring to seeing the speck in a brother's eye rather than the beam, but the context is basically the same.

The fact that we are all sinners and should not judge is a basic foundation; because we are sinners, we do.
Homosexuality is a sin of choice. You may have been born that way, but like many facets of the human psyche, it is a sin only when acted upon.
I believe if you accept Jesus as your Savior, no matter what sin you have committed, you will be forgiven.

I don't know if transcribers want the Bible to change- who knows, maybe they hated their jobs like a lot of us do. I do know that King James had a bunch of folks doing the transcription in order to reflect his views as they aligned with the Church of England.
Humans interpret the Bible in so many ways, in my mind, you do as best you can, only God knows the absolute Truth, which can indeed differ from divinely inspired writings due to the machinations of human error, concious or not.
I don't believe arsenokoites was used to describe homosexuality the preference, I think it was used to describe and condemn the acting upon the feelings, lumping sins of the flesh along with thievery, murder, etc.

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Originally Posted by morrismma View Post
Yes I now they didnt have glass houses. John 8:7 I think says "He who is without sin among you, let him throw the first stone at her." . Same idea of the glass house, My point is everybody saying that it is a sin need to look at themselves and see that they commit sins as well. (Please do tell me where I was laking again) Also lets look at Matthew 7:1-6 I thank you may learn something.

The Bible does not change is my point. Now please tell me, who gets to deside what it means? I think somebody like maybe King james or how about the catholic church. We can agree that they would not want to change the original text at all for their sake right?

Can you please tell me what this word arsenokoit mean? Does it mean homosexual in the meaning we use it? Could it have been translated wrong?
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:46   #58
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I’m sorry but how is “ because a religious book says something” and argument for a law at all in this country? This is America, not some third world tribe state. Dam it people start acting like it.
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:49   #59
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Originally Posted by morrismma View Post
Why should they settle for anything? Are they less of a person not to be on par with straight people? Why not make it legal there is no reason not to and then anybody that does not like Gay marrage being legal can move to another country?

ETA: Why would anybody strive for something more? lets all just give up sit on our couches and defficate on ourselfs.

Ok I am an American white guy, but I want to call myself as a negro or African-American because I want to be on par with black people. Does it make sense to you? No way! You are doing this in the same way with the gay marriage.

The marriage is between a man and a woman and nothing else. Sorry.

I will support for the civil union but I won't support gay marriage. If those gay people want to get “married” then it is better for them to move out of this country. We simply don't need them and their issues.

If everyone on this earth is gay and then the human beings will come to end. We already knows that the gay act is abhor thing to do. However, some people wants to sin so I gave them a chance to get “married” under the civil union, but they don’t like “Civil Union” and they want get married under “gay marriage” definition. Sorry get out of our land.

Last edited by Glock30Eric; 09-13-2011 at 11:52..
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:58   #60
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Ok I am an American white guy, but I want to call myself as a negro or African-American because I want to be on par with black people. Does it make sense to you? No way! You are doing this in the same way with the gay marriage.

The marriage is between a man and a woman and nothing else. Sorry.

I will support for the civil union but I won't support gay marriage. If those gay people want to get “married” then it is better for them to move out of this country. We simply don't need them and their issues.

If everyone on this earth is gay and then the human beings will come to end. We already knows that the gay act is abhor thing to do. However, some people wants to sin so I gave them a chance to get “married” under the civil union, but they don’t like “Civil Union” and they want get married under “gay marriage” definition. Sorry get out of our land.
You shore don’t sound like the ideal of an American. Are you new to the country and having some adapting issues? And who is the our? Maybe if people have problems with the freedoms and liberties in America they should move. Its not for everyone.
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