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Old 09-13-2011, 15:06   #76
Bilbo Bagins
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Originally Posted by PurplePirate View Post
That is what I found interesting. I wasn't even aware that it was being discussed in Raleigh, but I think it is going to get heated as the day to vote nears.

Another thing I find surprising is the amount of people on here that assume all people who oppose gay marriage are "religious zealots". That's like saying all people who support gay marriage are gay.
People assumed it was white christian conservatives, but a Lot of Catholic Latino and Black Baptist that usually vote democrat in California oppose gay marriage.

Last edited by Bilbo Bagins; 09-13-2011 at 15:08..
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Old 09-13-2011, 15:12   #77
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Originally Posted by gwalchmai View Post
I'm sorry, I can't understand what this gibberish has to do with the question I asked. Could you rephrase it?
Answering your question, we outlaw slavery, and have child pornography laws. As far as I remember form my one reading of the bible, both are things the bible does not have laws on. iirc the bible has rules on how to treat your slaves.
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Old 09-13-2011, 15:12   #78
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The glass houses thing was likely referring to seeing the speck in a brother's eye rather than the beam, but the context is basically the same.

The fact that we are all sinners and should not judge is a basic foundation; because we are sinners, we do.
Homosexuality is a sin of choice. You may have been born that way, but like many facets of the human psyche, it is a sin only when acted upon.
I believe if you accept Jesus as your Savior, no matter what sin you have committed, you will be forgiven.

I don't know if transcribers want the Bible to change- who knows, maybe they hated their jobs like a lot of us do. I do know that King James had a bunch of folks doing the transcription in order to reflect his views as they aligned with the Church of England.
Humans interpret the Bible in so many ways, in my mind, you do as best you can, only God knows the absolute Truth, which can indeed differ from divinely inspired writings due to the machinations of human error, concious or not.
I don't believe arsenokoites was used to describe homosexuality the preference, I think it was used to describe and condemn the acting upon the feelings, lumping sins of the flesh along with thievery, murder, etc.
Is there any sins that are not a choice? Also could you(general nothing I say or have said is pointed toward you.Im just debating my side) please tell me what sin is worse than the other. My belief is a that they are all equal lie=Murder=homosexuality.

My take on the bible that is in print right now is its contaminated. there was a king that had his say. You had the catholic church (some how they are uber rich) that said let me see this bible (quickly pulls out hand axe)
Wack!!! (hands scribe back half the original) Go publish that half the rest makes the church look bad.

I dont think it matters if they are born that way or its a choice. Some people do, So i have another question if they were born that way then with all reason God himself made a mistake? Remember that We all were created in his image. So remember if you are against gay marriage there is a chance you are saying God screwed up.
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Old 09-13-2011, 15:17   #79
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God is absolutely man's worst invention.
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Old 09-13-2011, 15:24   #80
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Ok I am an American white guy, but I want to call myself as a negro or African-American because I want to be on par with black people. Does it make sense to you? No way! You are doing this in the same way with the gay marriage.

The marriage is between a man and a woman and nothing else. Sorry.

I will support for the civil union but I won't support gay marriage. If those gay people want to get “married” then it is better for them to move out of this country. We simply don't need them and their issues.

If everyone on this earth is gay and then the human beings will come to end. We already knows that the gay act is abhor thing to do. However, some people wants to sin so I gave them a chance to get “married” under the civil union, but they don’t like “Civil Union” and they want get married under “gay marriage” definition. Sorry get out of our land.
Thanks for debating with opinions and emotions and not facts you showed no facts in this at all.

You actually proved my point. You hear(read) people all the time how its not fair to be a white male, So in your example it does make sense to want to be on par with them.

What about womens rights they wanted to be equal so they stood up and got it. Black rights same story. So where does it not make sense to want to be equal?

The same old line if you dont like it get out of our country. SOME ONE ELSE ALL READY STATED IF YOU DONT LIKE FREEDOM IN AMERICA YOU A JUST AS WELCOME TO LEAVE!
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Old 09-13-2011, 15:29   #81
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Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins View Post
People assumed it was white christian conservatives, but a Lot of Catholic Latino and Black Baptist that usually vote democrat in California oppose gay marriage.
The fact of the matter is I know people who have no religious affiliation at all, yet they still oppose gay marriage. I just don't know why people always assume that those who oppose gay marriage oppose it for religious reasons.

Last edited by Calico Jack; 09-13-2011 at 15:31..
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Old 09-13-2011, 15:36   #82
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The fact of the matter is I know people who have no religious affiliation at all, yet they still oppose gay marriage. I just don't know why people always assume that those who oppose gay marriage oppose it for religious reasons.
Its because the biggest part of the group that oppose it are religious. Any time its debated that is one of the first view put forth is "God hates it", "Its against God" Which is all an uniformed and not researched opinion But when you say GOD SAID everybody runs.
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Old 09-13-2011, 15:50   #83
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Its because the biggest part of the group that oppose it are religious. Any time its debated that is one of the first view put forth is "God hates it", "Its against God" Which is all an uniformed and not researched opinion But when you say GOD SAID everybody runs.
I agree that the majority of those opposed to gay marriage are in opposition due to religious reasons, but not all.

Last edited by Calico Jack; 09-13-2011 at 15:50..
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Old 09-13-2011, 16:37   #84
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I agree that the majority of those opposed to gay marriage are in opposition due to religious reasons, but not all.
Agreed, just like not all who are for it are gay. Some of us just Know what personal freedoms mean.
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Old 09-13-2011, 16:51   #85
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Thanks for debating with opinions and emotions and not facts you showed no facts in this at all.

You actually proved my point. You hear(read) people all the time how its not fair to be a white male, So in your example it does make sense to want to be on par with them.

What about womens rights they wanted to be equal so they stood up and got it. Black rights same story. So where does it not make sense to want to be equal?

The same old line if you dont like it get out of our country. SOME ONE ELSE ALL READY STATED IF YOU DONT LIKE FREEDOM IN AMERICA YOU A JUST AS WELCOME TO LEAVE!
You don't get my point.

The point is I can't change my skin to black to order to be called as a Negro. It is same thing to the marriage, it is between man and woman. It is impossible to change it to whatever so. If you want to do that, then you must allow people to start marrying their pets, computer, whatever so.

I'm libertarian and I believe in Jesus Christ. You clearly display your ignorant in the marriage. You dont really know where the "marriage" came from and who established it. It came from God, therefore God said it's between man and woman, period. Therefore, Union Civil is the beat solution for the gay people. It's very sad that it wasn't good enough for them. They don't make sense as a sin is never a logical.




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Old 09-13-2011, 17:28   #86
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Is there any sins that are not a choice? Also could you(general nothing I say or have said is pointed toward you.Im just debating my side) please tell me what sin is worse than the other. My belief is a that they are all equal lie=Murder=homosexuality.

My take on the bible that is in print right now is its contaminated. there was a king that had his say. You had the catholic church (some how they are uber rich) that said let me see this bible (quickly pulls out hand axe)
Wack!!! (hands scribe back half the original) Go publish that half the rest makes the church look bad.

I dont think it matters if they are born that way or its a choice. Some people do, So i have another question if they were born that way then with all reason God himself made a mistake? Remember that We all were created in his image. So remember if you are against gay marriage there is a chance you are saying God screwed up.
No I don't believe God made a mistake. He gives what we can handle. We are all born with a cross to bear- mine is Alcoholism. I had "the thirst" as they say. I am sober and have chosen to no longer abuse my body years ago, but it will always be with me, trying to creep back in.
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Old 09-13-2011, 19:42   #87
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You don't get my point.

The point is I can't change my skin to black to order to be called as a Negro. It is same thing to the marriage, it is between man and woman. It is impossible to change it to whatever so. If you want to do that, then you must allow people to start marrying their pets, computer, whatever so.

I'm libertarian and I believe in Jesus Christ. You clearly display your ignorant in the marriage. You dont really know where the "marriage" came from and who established it. It came from God, therefore God said it's between man and woman, period. Therefore, Union Civil is the beat solution for the gay people. It's very sad that it wasn't good enough for them. They don't make sense as a sin is never a logical.




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Again your point stands on religous views alone with no fact. Words are given meaning by man not god.

PLEASE SO ME MY IGNORANCE SINCE I THINK THE FIRST MARRIAGE LAWS WERE 5000 YEARS AGO AND THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN SOME WHERE AROUND 3500 YEARS AGO. SO YES IN MY IGNORANCE I THOUGHT GOD CREATED MARRIAGE WAIT THAT WAS YOU.

What I have been saying and many others Your "marriage by god" has no bearing or place in a law of a country that has many religions with many different gods and some with no religion and no gods. Now the word marriage could have its meaning changed by man to cover all human to human marriage much easier then you could change your skin color.
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Old 09-13-2011, 19:54   #88
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No I don't believe God made a mistake. He gives what we can handle. We are all born with a cross to bear- mine is Alcoholism. I had "the thirst" as they say. I am sober and have chosen to no longer abuse my body years ago, but it will always be with me, trying to creep back in.
First congradulations on becoming sober I know its not easy. Yes we all have crosses to bear, but you chose to drink the first time,the second and so on tell you had to keep going. Different is everybody is born with the need to love and be loved not chosen. They are born with an attraction to the same sex.
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Old 09-13-2011, 20:58   #89
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Again your point stands on religous views alone with no fact. Words are given meaning by man not god.

PLEASE SO ME MY IGNORANCE SINCE I THINK THE FIRST MARRIAGE LAWS WERE 5000 YEARS AGO AND THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN SOME WHERE AROUND 3500 YEARS AGO. SO YES IN MY IGNORANCE I THOUGHT GOD CREATED MARRIAGE WAIT THAT WAS YOU.

What I have been saying and many others Your "marriage by god" has no bearing or place in a law of a country that has many religions with many different gods and some with no religion and no gods. Now the word marriage could have its meaning changed by man to cover all human to human marriage much easier then you could change your skin color.
Ok where is the evidence that man and woman was married in 5,000 years ago (by your words)?

Uh? You say we could change our color of skin? What drug are you taking because it must be really strong!?

Anyway.

I believe in Bible is inspired by God, and it is living words from God'a mouth. I know and surely knows that Bible is perfect.

Since you don't believe in the Bible then we don't see any point to discuss further because you are blind from the truth and you hardens your heart by rejecting the truth. I prays for your repentance and to grasp the truth by God's holy spirit.

God's grace be with you.


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Last edited by Glock30Eric; 09-13-2011 at 21:03..
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Old 09-13-2011, 21:44   #90
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Ok where is the evidence that man and woman was married in 5,000 years ago (by your words)?
Well lets see. We know of marriages in ancient Greece and Rome conventio in manum . Both predating Christianity along with Chinese marriages that predate Christianity and Christianities arrival in China. There is also interesting cases of same sex marriages in these cultures. Emperor Nero will come to mind in this case. It was not until 342 AD that a law appears on the books prohibiting same sex marriage in Rome.
Maybe you should spend some time reading some other books, if you do not even know that marriage existed before Christianity.
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Old 09-14-2011, 01:31   #91
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God already did.

He made Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve!

It's been a while since I heard that! Keep up the good work!!


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Old 09-14-2011, 05:00   #92
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First congradulations on becoming sober I know its not easy. Yes we all have crosses to bear, but you chose to drink the first time,the second and so on tell you had to keep going. Different is everybody is born with the need to love and be loved not chosen. They are born with an attraction to the same sex.
Thanks, it's been a tough row to hoe!

My correlation between the two is this-
People are born alcoholics, it's a disease; whether you act upon it is your choice. For drunks, alcohol= love and everything else they need to fill those gaps in their life.
I'm not saying homosexuality is a disease, more like a crossed wire in your brain. Whether you act upon it is your choice.
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Old 09-14-2011, 06:36   #93
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Is there any sins that are not a choice? Also could you(general nothing I say or have said is pointed toward you.Im just debating my side) please tell me what sin is worse than the other. My belief is a that they are all equal lie=Murder=homosexuality.

My take on the bible that is in print right now is its contaminated. there was a king that had his say. You had the catholic church (some how they are uber rich) that said let me see this bible (quickly pulls out hand axe)
Wack!!! (hands scribe back half the original) Go publish that half the rest makes the church look bad.

I dont think it matters if they are born that way or its a choice. Some people do, So i have another question if they were born that way then with all reason God himself made a mistake? Remember that We all were created in his image. So remember if you are against gay marriage there is a chance you are saying God screwed up.
If this the the extent of your knowledge about the Bible, you are woefully ill-informed.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:38   #94
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If this the the extent of your knowledge about the Bible, you are woefully ill-informed.
Please tell me where im wrong not with your belief but with true facts. That there is NO Way Possible A King Or Church had it translated to what they wanted? Am I wrong that all sins are equal? james 2:10 maybe.

Am I also wrong in saying that if I am created in gods image and i have 12 toes that god made a mistake? If you answer is No then my point is Just cause there is a wired crossed gays are just the same as you or me. If yes then im sure your book says something about calling god wrong.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:54   #95
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Well lets see. We know of marriages in ancient Greece and Rome conventio in manum . Both predating Christianity along with Chinese marriages that predate Christianity and Christianities arrival in China. There is also interesting cases of same sex marriages in these cultures. Emperor Nero will come to mind in this case. It was not until 342 AD that a law appears on the books prohibiting same sex marriage in Rome.
Maybe you should spend some time reading some other books, if you do not even know that marriage existed before Christianity.

Sorry I don’t agree with you.

I don't believe there was anyone before Adam and Eve. The day that God created Adam and Eve is the beginning of the Christianity. Therefore, I don't agree with you that there were people before Christianity. Adam and Eve was the first couple to be married in the human beings. In the Bible God clearly prohibited the gay acts and the gay marriage before anyone created the law.
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:29   #96
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Ok where is the evidence that man and woman was married in 5,000 years ago (by your words)?

Uh? You say we could change our color of skin? What drug are you taking because it must be really strong!?

Anyway.

I believe in Bible is inspired by God, and it is living words from God'a mouth. I know and surely knows that Bible is perfect.

Since you don't believe in the Bible then we don't see any point to discuss further because you are blind from the truth and you hardens your heart by rejecting the truth. I prays for your repentance and to grasp the truth by God's holy spirit.

God's grace be with you.


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Blind from the truth can be said about Religious people just the same much easier actually. I can say the words in the bible are lived by through your interpretation which is very blind cause you can change them to fit what you want.

Proof of marriage is easy to find 5000 years ago. Somthing else to think about is Take the American indian trible, any tribe that has never heard of the bible, other religions all get married? How can you tell me your god was the one Who invented marriage?
http://powerisknowledge.new.newsvine...odern-day-iraq

Give this a read I know its wiki its no good but it shows A lot of other religions that get married Most that were around before christianity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage

well i never said you could change yours skin color. I said you can change laws and wording easier than you could change skin color. But if you want to be technical HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF TANNING CHANGES THE COLOR OF SKIN.

Know I dont Believe in a book written by men translated by men under the control of a king. With a work made up to mean homosexual that happens to be a compound word with its to sepret means combined to menbed. please tell me when was the last time you seen butter-fly(coupound word would be butterfly).
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Old 09-14-2011, 09:37   #97
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Sorry I don’t agree with you.

I don't believe there was anyone before Adam and Eve. The day that God created Adam and Eve is the beginning of the Christianity. Therefore, I don't agree with you that there were people before Christianity. Adam and Eve was the first couple to be married in the human beings. In the Bible God clearly prohibited the gay acts and the gay marriage before anyone created the law.
Just cause you dont agree with him or I does not make you right. By your own words it makes you blind.

Before the bible was written people got married so god stole the idea of marriage form them.

Please outside of the bible show me where adam and eve has ever been proven. YOU ASKED ME FOR PROOF I SHOWED YOU NOW ITS YOUR TURN.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:01   #98
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Just cause you dont agree with him or I does not make you right. By your own words it makes you blind.

Before the bible was written people got married so god stole the idea of marriage form them.

Please outside of the bible show me where adam and eve has ever been proven. YOU ASKED ME FOR PROOF I SHOWED YOU NOW ITS YOUR TURN.
I already gave you the evidences and it came from the Bible.

If we want to discuss outside of the Bible, then you shouldn't discuss about the marriage because the marriage came from Bible. If we never had the Bible then we will be like animals; raping each other, having orgies all we want without a shame, and we won't even know what is right nor wrong, and we will kill each other as we please because we would have the self-relativism thought. I am sure you already agree with me but you simply want to justify your thoughts, rationales on things by your own standards.

Anyway I think I already gave you enough explanation to understand my position. I think you just want to stir this debate into your position.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:05   #99
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Please tell me where im wrong not with your belief but with true facts. That there is NO Way Possible A King Or Church had it translated to what they wanted? Am I wrong that all sins are equal? james 2:10 maybe.

Am I also wrong in saying that if I am created in gods image and i have 12 toes that god made a mistake? If you answer is No then my point is Just cause there is a wired crossed gays are just the same as you or me. If yes then im sure your book says something about calling god wrong.
Lots of things in life require education for understanding. If you wish to understand the Bible, educate yourself. Amazon offers for sale many good books that will provide a useful introduction to understanding the Bible. Buy one and educate yourself. Superficiality only results in a tissue thin grasp of the Bible or whatever else is the topic of discussion.
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Old 09-14-2011, 14:54   #100
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Lots of things in life require education for understanding. If you wish to understand the Bible, educate yourself. Amazon offers for sale many good books that will provide a useful introduction to understanding the Bible. Buy one and educate yourself. Superficiality only results in a tissue thin grasp of the Bible or whatever else is the topic of discussion.
That is the problem as I have already stated. Books from Amazon, 5 years study with a Minister or just Plain reading it my self does not make a difference it is how it is interpreted by the person who wrote that book you bought on amazon, or the minster you study with. If you think that is wrong you are crazy if there was only on interpretation there would not be 1000 different christan denominations.


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I already gave you the evidences and it came from the Bible.

If we want to discuss outside of the Bible, then you shouldn't discuss about the marriage because the marriage came from Bible. If we never had the Bible then we will be like animals; raping each other, having orgies all we want without a shame, and we won't even know what is right nor wrong, and we will kill each other as we please because we would have the self-relativism thought. I am sure you already agree with me but you simply want to justify your thoughts, rationales on things by your own standards.

Anyway I think I already gave you enough explanation to understand my position. I think you just want to stir this debate into your position.
The bible is no more a source of facts than a Dr Suess book.

Again marriage did not come from the Bible that is wrong. IF it came from the bible why do other religions do it for one? Second why did and still do Tribes of people who never heard of the bible marry?

We would not be any more like animals than we are know. Again there were civilized society before the bible. Even with the bible we kill each other rape and murder. the bible does nothing more then let you beleive you are better the sombody else and think your going to a magical place like heaven.

No I do not agree with you at all the bible is a childs story that a bunch of adults believe in.

No you did not give me any kind of proof what so ever. Is that not the purpose of a debate is to show and prove my side?(though it is a debate I new i could not when cause Im debating a belief instead of facts)
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