Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2011, 07:58   #1
ColGlocker
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 79
Fully Supported Chamber???

Hello:

What does it mean to have a fully supported chamber? I was reading a thread in the General Glock forum. In it, it was implied the G29 did not have a supported chamber. Also, I was looking at the Swamp Fox web site. The ammo I was considering is described as "Fully supported chamber version". Is it an issue I need to keep in mind when purchasing ammo for a G29?

Thanks in advance.
ColGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 08:17   #2
OregonG20
Senior Member
 
OregonG20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 372
The 10 Ring
That is basically it. The area of the case exposed because of the feed ramp. Glocks have more loose tolerances, because they want a gun that will feed reliably. With tighter tolerances, you get more chamber support and you aren't as hard on brass, but you may not have 100% reliability, especially if you handload.

I have heard it is a misnomer. Any semi auto pistol that has a feed ramp into the barrel won't have a fully supported chamber. They may have more chamber support, but the only handguns with fully supported chambers are revolvers, or so I have read.

I guess you can keep it in mind, and I shoot a G20, but I have never had over pressure signs or "glock smiles" in any of my brass. I have reloaded almost all of it over 6 times, and it still is trucking, and my reloads are coming in over 600 fpe. Not nuclear by any means, but warm. YMMV.
OregonG20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 09:02   #3
ColGlocker
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 79
Thanks for the information. So my next question (which might be better asked at the vendor site) is what does it mean when Swamp Fox ammo advertises "Fully Supported Chamber Version"? Does it mean the ammo can only be used in some 10mm weapons or that weapons might need to be modified in order for the ammo to work properly? Does it mean the ammo are reloads, but they were used in a fully supported chamber?

Thanks again.
ColGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 09:10   #4
OregonG20
Senior Member
 
OregonG20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 372
Ask MudRush on here. He owns SwampFox.
OregonG20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 09:36   #5
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
I'm assuming it was my comment in GG that caused this. Here's the deal. You can fire pretty much anything out of a G29. Trust me, I've gotten pretty wild with mine. What I meant was that there has been some evidence that shows that the G29 may not be able to handle quite as much pressure as the G20. The G29 will still shoot insane loads just fine, I do it all the time. I said this in reference to Swamp Fox ammo because he's the one that figured this out. He realized that a single load (200gr bullet at max power) was a little too hot for the G29, so he made a G29 specific load. All I meant was that the guy needed to buy the G29 specific load.

It is well known that ALL Glock barrels are not fully supported. This goes for all calibers. This thread could go on for years and be beat to death, but all you need to know is this: if you buy a G29, there is only one load in existence, that I know of, that you should NOT shoot through it. That's the 200gr Swamp Fox load. He says not to, and has a G29 specific load. Don't overthink this and decide you have to have an aftermarket barrel because you absolutely don't, especially if you'll be shooting mostly commercial ammo.
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 09:46   #6
ColGlocker
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 79
Thanks for the information.

Not knowing any better, I was thinking of placing an order for the 200gr. fully supported chamber ammo. Then, as you noticed, I read the thread in GG. It triggered (no pun intended) me to post this current thread.

The intent was not to buy a new barrel, but to make sure I was purchasing ammo compatible with my current (stock) set up.

Thanks again for the help/heads up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Carrier View Post
I'm assuming it was my comment in GG that caused this. Here's the deal. You can fire pretty much anything out of a G29. Trust me, I've gotten pretty wild with mine. What I meant was that there has been some evidence that shows that the G29 may not be able to handle quite as much pressure as the G20. The G29 will still shoot insane loads just fine, I do it all the time. I said this in reference to Swamp Fox ammo because he's the one that figured this out. He realized that a single load (200gr bullet at max power) was a little too hot for the G29, so he made a G29 specific load. All I meant was that the guy needed to buy the G29 specific load.

It is well known that ALL Glock barrels are not fully supported. This goes for all calibers. This thread could go on for years and be beat to death, but all you need to know is this: if you buy a G29, there is only one load in existence, that I know of, that you should NOT shoot through it. That's the 200gr Swamp Fox load. He says not to, and has a G29 specific load. Don't overthink this and decide you have to have an aftermarket barrel because you absolutely don't, especially if you'll be shooting mostly commercial ammo.
ColGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 12:04   #7
Oklahoma
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 18
Not sure if this could be done but I will ask it anyway. Could you take a fine pointed sharpe and trace around each one of these a the top of the barrels and then remove the case and post a pic of the marked outline of what is not supported. It is kinda hard to tell by the pic if one barrel supports more then the other. Just thinking out loud here....


Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonG20 View Post
The 10 Ring
That is basically it. The area of the case exposed because of the feed ramp. Glocks have more loose tolerances, because they want a gun that will feed reliably. With tighter tolerances, you get more chamber support and you aren't as hard on brass, but you may not have 100% reliability, especially if you handload.

I have heard it is a misnomer. Any semi auto pistol that has a feed ramp into the barrel won't have a fully supported chamber. They may have more chamber support, but the only handguns with fully supported chambers are revolvers, or so I have read.

I guess you can keep it in mind, and I shoot a G20, but I have never had over pressure signs or "glock smiles" in any of my brass. I have reloaded almost all of it over 6 times, and it still is trucking, and my reloads are coming in over 600 fpe. Not nuclear by any means, but warm. YMMV.
Oklahoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 12:17   #8
OregonG20
Senior Member
 
OregonG20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 372
I would love to, but it's not my picture. I only have one barrel, but it would be interesting to see.
OregonG20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 12:46   #9
Oklahoma
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 18
I could do the lone wolf barrel but don't have a factory barrel. I will try to post up a pic this evening if I can remember to do it...Maybe some of the guys with the other barrels can help out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonG20 View Post
I would love to, but it's not my picture. I only have one barrel, but it would be interesting to see.
Oklahoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 14:27   #10
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
I'll post a picture of the support offered by my G29's stock barrel. If you do this, either scratch the case with something, or use a fine point Sharpie. A regular Sharpie will make too fat of a line.

To the OP, when you order from Swamp Fox, just make sure you order the G29 specific 200gr load, and tell him about your gun (what barrel used, spring used, or just stock).

Last edited by 21Carrier; 09-28-2011 at 14:29..
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 14:58   #11
21Carrier
Until I Gota 29
 
21Carrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hoover, AL
Posts: 3,037
Here are some pictures showing the support offered by my stock G29 barrel:

This first picture shows a dummy round in the chamber:
The 10 Ring

These next two show four shells, from left to right: actual Glocksmiled case fired from my gun (caused by over-pressure, load too hot), dummy round scratched with needle then marked with Sharpie, dummy round scratched with needle, another actual Glocksmile.
The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring

Same rounds with a picture of a dummy round keychain I made. Just wanted to post it somewhere. 175gr Silvertip, dead primer, nickel brass, no powder.
The 10 Ring

It's interesting that the actual Glocksmiles are pretty similar to the scribed lines on the other cases. I'm not so sure what else I was expecting, but still.

Last edited by 21Carrier; 09-28-2011 at 15:01..
21Carrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 17:10   #12
OregonG20
Senior Member
 
OregonG20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 372
I scratched a line on this case. Stock G20 barrel.

The 10 Ring
OregonG20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 17:26   #13
_The_Shadow
Ret. Fireman
 
_The_Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southeast, LoUiSiAna
Posts: 4,327
Being that the case spaces on the mouth's rim, one thing to also check is the actual length of the casing...too long less support!
__________________
Southeast, LoUiSiAna
NRA Life Member
BASS Life Member
_The_Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 18:24   #14
Oklahoma
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 18
This from my LW barrel. I don't have a stock barrel since I bought the G20 used and the LW was already installed. There really isn't much that isn't support and what isn't supported is very near the web. I can see why they say the LW will handle the Hot Loads better. .

The 10 Ring



The 10 Ring


The 10 Ring



The 10 Ring




The 10 Ring

Last edited by Oklahoma; 09-28-2011 at 18:34..
Oklahoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 18:29   #15
inspectorjj
Senior Member
 
inspectorjj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sunny Southern California
Posts: 213
Note: My understanding is that "Fully Supported" chamber means not just what is "sticking out" but also the "tightness" around the entire length of the casing.

Some of you guys who reload, am I correct?
__________________
Comparing a 10MM to a .45 is like comparing Major League Baseball to Softball. One of them anybody can do and the other is strictly for men......JJ
inspectorjj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 18:31   #16
blastfact
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,588
All the pics tell the tale.

inspector: While a tighter chamber will give you a few thousands more wall thickness it only figures in slightly on the support front. With most striker fired semiauto's and others. The bottom of the chamber is not supported as well as the sides and top. Not to mention the feed ramp angle and cut.

While comparing my new LW barrel to the trash OEM barrel. I liked the better support concerning the feed ramp. But I was also impressed with the fact that the cut out in the bottom lug was not as deep as the OEM thing they call a barrel. From what I can tell it is about .010 to .012 thicker along the bottom of the chamber. This may also account for LW's claim of tighter lock up. Thus the more shallow buttom lug cut leaves more metal around the chamber. Thus better supported. Also of note the total feed ramp thickness seems to be .003 to .005 thicker.

Last edited by blastfact; 09-28-2011 at 18:53..
blastfact is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 19:01   #17
g29guy
Senior Member
 
g29guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by inspectorjj View Post
Note: My understanding is that "Fully Supported" chamber means not just what is "sticking out" but also the "tightness" around the entire length of the casing.

Some of you guys who reload, am I correct?
I've always referred to match grade for the tightness of both the inside and outside of the barrel and fully supported as the amount of brass not exposed.

Most aftermarket barrels are both fully supported and match grade.

Some guns come from the factory fully supported but aren't match grade for reliability.(not the case in striker fire guns)

All guns are not made match grade because they don't chamber rounds as reliably in combat or extreme conditions or for self defense.

From Wikipedia:

Match grade frequently refers to firearm parts and ammunition that are suitable for a competitive match. Sometimes, it also refers to other devices and parts that made with high precision.
__________________
Happiness is a belt fed weapon!

Last edited by g29guy; 09-28-2011 at 19:05.. Reason: added info
g29guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 23:44   #18
BIGBOY61
Senior Member
 
BIGBOY61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chantilly, Va.
Posts: 177
It is not so much how "tight" the chamber is to the actual round when you are determining a "fully supported chamber."

The case needs to expand inside the barrel to prevent the gas from blowing backwards. It needs to expand to make the seal. LW barrels has a more snugger clearance surrounding the case vs. a stock Glock barrel.

Fully supported chamber means how far the barrel engulfs the case just up to the extractor grooves. The more the barrel chamber surrounds the case the less chance the case bulges when fired and a KB occurs. All things being equal-as long as you are not reloading "nuclear" rounds.

Glock barrels, in order to feed all sorts brands of ammo, have more "room" in the chamber and does not "fully support" the entire case.

LW barrel leaves some area exposed near the feed ramp, but not as much as the Glock stock chamber.
BIGBOY61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 00:18   #19
awdxtc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 382
So is the lone wolf barrel the best choice for shooting nuclear loads?
awdxtc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 02:36   #20
g29guy
Senior Member
 
g29guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by awdxtc View Post
So is the lone wolf barrel the best choice for shooting nuclear loads?
It is one of the many aftermarket barrels that are exceptional. Bar-sto, KKM, Stormlake, Lone Wolf Distributors are all fine components. Each is better than the other in one way or another.

I like KKM because I can get a longer barrel and You will have it in less than a week.
Bar-sto are very accurate but their wait time is crazy and they are expensive

I don't have experience with the other two, but I have ordered trigger components from Lone Wolf and their customer service has been great and JR is available in the GATE forum (he is owner) he'll answer questions specifically if you pm him.
__________________
Happiness is a belt fed weapon!
g29guy is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:52.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 616
139 Members
477 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31