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Old 08-14-2014, 10:51   #1
LongGun1
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Weapons mounted IR Targeting & Identification revisited

Been a while since we discussed this indepth on the SPF backup forum.

http://pullig.dyndns.org/practicalpr...hp?f=32&t=2100


Basically......I am looking for a reliable, non-restricted weapons mounted IR unit that will provide both fine designation (IR Laser Targeting/Designator) & also an IR Illuminator for my trio of 300 Blackout Leonidas.

Both Designator & Illuminator need to be eye safe or at least employ an eye safe mode. Variable focus IR Illumination is a plus....but not a deal breaker if the unit is designed and/or can be mounted under weapon to eliminate blooming with night vision. Visible Illumination capability is a plus. Minimal weight is a primary consideration. Being powered by CR-123A batteries are also a primary consideration. Since I will be acquiring at least 3 units.....cost effectiveness is a primary consideration. The ability to employ both IR Illumination & IR Designation simultaneously is a plus. Would like both the Designator & the Illumination to be contained in the same module.

I also would like one axis of divergence from the bore axis on both the Designator & also the Illuminator.

I have tested/considered & removed from consideration the DBAL-A2 & DBAL-I2, the PEQ-15 ATPAIL, the Armasight Draxos-1, Corsak, and a few others.

I am currently considering the Streamlight TLR-2 IRW (LED/IR Laser w/IR Illumination Lens Cap (arrived & mounted late last night) and also the Surefire X400V-IRC (Dual-Spectrum LED WeaponLight with Infrared Laser).



Pic of it installed...


Survival/Preparedness Forum



Unsure how well the IR Filter will work in tandem with the LED Illuminator....as visible LED are lacking in IR emissions by design.

If it does not work out....will use it on a Glock 19..

..and order the SureFire X400V-IRC (Dual-Spectrum LED WeaponLight with Infrared Laser) next.


Any other units I need to be considering?

Other considerations?
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Last edited by LongGun1; 08-14-2014 at 10:52..
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Old 08-14-2014, 12:52   #2
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I understood about every third word of that...
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Old 08-14-2014, 15:09   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
I understood about every third word of that...
Are you off your meds again?



Seriously though...

..looks like I may settle on the Surefire X400V-IRC (Dual-Spectrum LED WeaponLight with Infrared Laser) for all 3 units and relegate the Streamlight to a Glock or other backup long gun.


That is.....unless I can find something better for this particular application??

It would be nice if a civilian unit was available with a very wide to narrow focus IR Laser directly below the barrel.
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Old 08-14-2014, 21:27   #4
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I too have been considering that same Surefire unit. However, I personally want to be able to have a visible laser that is slaved to the IR laser for ease of zeroing. I do like the light weight and low cost though.

What I've also been considering is the Wilcox RAPTAR. However, I don't want to mill my rail to have it fit, yet its capabilities exceed everything else out there.

decisions, decisions...
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Old 08-14-2014, 22:44   #5
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I too have been considering that same Surefire unit. However, I personally want to be able to have a visible laser that is slaved to the IR laser for ease of zeroing. I do like the light weight and low cost though.

What I've also been considering is the Wilcox RAPTAR. However, I don't want to mill my rail to have it fit, yet its capabilities exceed everything else out there.

decisions, decisions...

The fully equipped RAPTAR is a really sweet piece of kit...

..and I have briefly considered one...

..but I simply cannot justify on my budget $6,500 each X 3 = $19,500 at this point in time.

I could get a AN/PVS-21 LPNVG for $19,500!



That being said....

..the built-in LRF on the RAPTAR calls to me!

May get one for my primary long gun at some future point in time.


If you get one.....definitely calls for at least a mini-review!
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Old 08-14-2014, 23:11   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongGun1 View Post
The fully equipped RAPTAR is a really sweet piece of kit...

..and I have briefly considered one...

..but I simply cannot justify on my budget $6,500 each X 3 = $19,500 at this point in time.

I could get a AN/PVS-21 LPNVG for $19,500!



That being said....

..the built-in LRF on the RAPTAR calls to me!

May get one for my primary long gun at some future point in time.


If you get one.....definitely calls for at least a mini-review!


You're not the only one on a budget. I may, in the end, just use an OTAL and deal with not having the ability to zero w/o nods.

Then I will have more funds towards the FLIR M24 that I have coveted for so long.

btw, I have it on good authority, from someone who's used them down range, that the 21's don't live up to the hype. Supposedly, the tube configuration causes resolution problems when other optical devices, HUDs, tracking systems, etc. are spliced into the unit.

Last edited by TactiCool; 08-14-2014 at 23:17..
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:12   #7
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Originally Posted by TactiCool View Post
You're not the only one on a budget. I may, in the end, just use an OTAL and deal with not having the ability to zero w/o nods.

Then I will have more funds towards the FLIR M24 that I have coveted for so long.

btw, I have it on good authority, from someone who's used them down range, that the 21's don't live up to the hype. Supposedly, the tube configuration causes resolution problems when other optical devices, HUDs, tracking systems, etc. are spliced into the unit.

I have some time behind a friend's M24..

..really nice compact thermal monocular for the money...IMO.

BTW....he just got a AN/PAS-13(B?) Thermal Weapon Sight..

..but have not had a chance to play with it as of yet or compare it to my LRTWS.


As far as zeroing IR lasers with NVD..

..I am sorta used to it by now...

(going back to the early-to-mid 1990's time frame)

..though it is definitely a PITA in the dead of night!



And Thanks for the "heads up"!

I will take a really hard look at the PVS-21 LPNVG before I drop $20k on one..

..really hoping (somewhat affordable ) multi-spectral or hyper-spectral (with I/O) is available by the time I can budget one.
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Old 08-15-2014, 14:07   #8
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Originally Posted by LongGun1 View Post
...= $19,500 at this point in time.

I could get a AN/PVS-21 LPNVG for $19,500!...
Holy carp. If I'm spending that kind of money, it's on something with a steering wheel...
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Old 08-15-2014, 14:38   #9
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Holy carp. If I'm spending that kind of money, it's on something with a steering wheel...
Hey....will a couple of focus wheels do?
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Old 08-15-2014, 15:19   #10
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I use a DBAL-D2, which does all of those things.

The Surefire and Streamlight units you are considering do not have IR Illumination, white only.

ETA:

oops, the Surefire is white +IR. I was thinking of an older model.

Last edited by RenegadeGlocker; 08-15-2014 at 15:25..
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Old 08-15-2014, 19:11   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongGun1 View Post
I have some time behind a friend's M24..

..really nice compact thermal monocular for the money...IMO.

BTW....he just got a AN/PAS-13(B?) Thermal Weapon Sight..

..but have not had a chance to play with it as of yet or compare it to my LRTWS.


As far as zeroing IR lasers with NVD..

..I am sorta used to it by now...

(going back to the early-to-mid 1990's time frame)

..though it is definitely a PITA in the dead of night!



And Thanks for the "heads up"!

I will take a really hard look at the PVS-21 LPNVG before I drop $20k on one..

..really hoping (somewhat affordable ) multi-spectral or hyper-spectral (with I/O) is available by the time I can budget one.

Don't get me wrong, you will love the 21's if you get them. My friends over at SBT 22 love them and praise them highly; however, you may run into problems if you start plugging other devices into them. That really is the only caveat. Otherwise, they work as advertised.

btw, you should check these fusion units out if you haven't already:

http://morovision.com/shop/dsnvg-anpsq-20/

Quote:
Formerly restricted to Military and Law Enforcement personnel only, the DSNVG is now available commercially.
I might end up getting a 2nd job to pick up one of these beauties.

Last edited by TactiCool; 08-15-2014 at 19:12..
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Old 08-15-2014, 21:11   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RenegadeGlocker View Post
I use a DBAL-D2, which does all of those things.
Actually.....not really. I use DBAL-A2 on other toys, but for this application looking for IR Designation & IR Illumination with one axis of divergence.....basically directly under the bore axis. Also trying to cut back on weight near the bore....the DBAL-A2 weighs almost twice as much as the Streamlight & Surefire.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RenegadeGlocker View Post

The Surefire and Streamlight units you are considering do not have IR Illumination, white only.
Just received the Streamlight IR Filters in the mail today.

Survival/Preparedness Forum

Problem is the Surefire Visible LED does not put out a sizable amount of it's output in the IR spectrum. I just tried the TLR-2 IRW w/IR Filter with a MNVD in an urban environment. Not getting the throw with the IR Filter equipped LED I am looking for.....so I will relegate the TLR-2 IRW w/IR Filter to backup use on one of the Glocks.....as well as the 2nd IR Filter on another LED powered TLR. More than adequate for night time pistol use (or CQB carbine distances) with MNVD.
I had a hunch this outcome was going to be the end result....thus the reason for also ordering the TLR Remote Switch for the Glock.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RenegadeGlocker View Post
ETA:

oops, the Surefire is white +IR. I was thinking of an older model.
Yep.....unless I come across a better option soon...

...looking like I will order one of the Dual Spectrum Surefires next.
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Old 08-15-2014, 21:33   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TactiCool View Post
Don't get me wrong, you will love the 21's if you get them. My friends over at SBT 22 love them and praise them highly; however, you may run into problems if you start plugging other devices into them. That really is the only caveat. Otherwise, they work as advertised.

btw, you should check these fusion units out if you haven't already:

http://morovision.com/shop/dsnvg-anpsq-20/

I might end up getting a 2nd job to pick up one of these beauties.

That is the type of fusion unit {aka "multi-spectral"} I was referring to.

Hopefully the performance, reliability, durability & capability will keep improving..

..and the price, weight, power requirements & size will keep decreasing!


While I do not mind acquiring 'leading edge' technology...

..I would rather stay away from 'bleeding edge' technology!
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Old 09-06-2014, 10:23   #14
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Well...decided to order a LDM LAM-3 for T&E on the Leonidas next.
Should arrive next week.

http://laserdefensemfg.com/ill-pd-lam-3.html

It has a 30mw IIIb IR Laser Designator, 50 mw IIIb IR Illuminator, 300 lumen Visible Illuminator, 10mw IIIb Visible Laser Designator & is multi-mode.

Range of Visible Illumination:
Visible: 1500m - 10m
(IR) Aiming: 2000m
(IR) Illuminator: up to 2000m



I should know soon if I need to order more for the other Leonidas. .

..or if it doesn't measure up..

..and is relegated as backup to be parked on a pistol..

..I will be back to looking at the Surefire.
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Old 11-24-2014, 00:11   #15
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Updates?
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:52   #16
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Updates?
Still T&E the LDM LAM-3.


Having 4 emitters is nice..

..though I wish the IR Illuminator had more versatility.
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Old 11-24-2014, 22:16   #17
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Well...decided to order a LDM LAM-3 for T&E on the Leonidas next.
Should arrive next week.

http://laserdefensemfg.com/ill-pd-lam-3.html

How much?
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Old 11-24-2014, 22:49   #18
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How much?
About $500??
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Old Yesterday, 00:56   #19
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$500, if you can buy non class 1 IR lasers.
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