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Old 11-27-2011, 14:25   #101
nickE10mm
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Originally Posted by ModGlock17 View Post
Yes. Since you started this GREAT thread, (hence, the Host) you have to send a small pack with a couple of strips in it to everyone who posted here.

Congrats, everyone. Reading this thread is very very enjoyable.
Damn, I knew there would be a catch! Wish it wasn't all gone... sent the last of it back home with my father-in-law... Dang

Maybe next time, boys and girls!
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“Because a 9mm only kills your body… the 10mm kills your soul.”
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Old 12-02-2011, 13:49   #102
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Finally

I've had a very rough start to Ohio gun season. I primarily hunt Holmes and Ashland County in Ohio. On Monday an Amish army of 30 plus came stomping through my leased land with out permission and ruined my day. Along with the rain it made for and awful start. I looked around at a few WMA's but they we all packed full of hunters. Called a old Military friend in Southern Ohio last night, he told me to come on down. Grabbed the Saiga 12 and Glock 20 and hit the road.

Saiga 12 = 1 doe

G20 = 1 9 point buck

[IMG]<a href="http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/Dangbard/?action=view&amp;current=downsized_11151112301.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/Dangbard/downsized_11151112301.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>[/IMG]


Took this guy at 30ish yards this morning running out of a corn field.
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Old 12-03-2011, 23:07   #103
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I know that we cant hunt with the 10mm here in Indiana, but dad just drops them down with the .454 casull ruger and Paw with his .44mag. Dad is actually a taxidermist so ive hunted my entire life, but Dad and I recently got into a discrepency over minimum case size in IN.. Does anyone as to so kindly know where I could find IN legislature on minimum case size for WTD in IN?!?!?! THANKS!
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Old 12-03-2011, 23:57   #104
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It should be clearly published in the dept of wildlife's website for hunting rules

took me five minutes to download and find out this:

the handgun barrel must be atleast four inches long
the bullet's diameter must be at least .243"
cartridge case length must be at least 1.16" long

so that rules out 10mm in indiana...
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Old 12-09-2011, 23:09   #105
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My 10mm friends... PLEASE read ALL this. Take the time and just do it. I believe it will bless ya if ya will...


NO spell check, and I can't spell worth a rip and I am hurry, lots going on, so just hang with me my friends ! haha.

Kinda long, but I do believe it willbe VERY interesting if you all will hang in there with me. If not.. Then I am appologize!


Well I had a PC tonight so I thought I'd through this in. I hope its OK "NICK", and is conducive to the thread theme....

Now before y'all look at the link. (below). Allow me please to add, that in all the discussion here 'on this link' (and it is NOT all I wanted to say or "preach," Ha.) I did NOT mention the 10mm.

Sooooo, as I am dropping the link here on this thread and y'all can look and read for your yourselves, ( I ran out of "image allowance" or would have posted more "game pics"/ "Test pics") but was on CC and answering something conducive to the 44mag question. So, allow me to say this in the theme of hunting and '10 mm's."

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1386204 POST # 23 and 26

Look at the HP cast bullet my amigo and shooting Pard at Hunter Supply has just introduced into his line of "high quality HC bullets for hunting."

No, I am not the kinda guy to turn y'all on to something 'just because my friend owns the compnay'. I got good shooting buds that own lots of things, and would not advise ya to use their stuff. Uh oh ! haha.

BUT. I "know" there is a star trek sorta outter space vulcan trend/desire from a few of my friends around here to use 135gr bullets that circle the globe from 10mm's. (stay with me boys please)...

Although I do not agree on this weight for SD or hunting, I know some of you like this weight, and some of you want a HC bullet, but 'by law' have to use a HP, or by desire 'want to use a HP in Hard Cast' bullet in 135gr.

My friend JR has sent me 2,500 HP HC bullets as most of you know, in 500 each for 5 different calibers to help test for him. I am a busy man. !

I test them in solid chunks of hind quarters, and guts, covered with real jackets and hard core clothes, and various other media, NOT just water bottles. ( i mean that sweet Ha.) So I am very busy.

I do not always take pics as we have done this since i was a kid and just never thought about camera's. It is just what we do out here.

Anyway. For you /us 10mm guys that want a 135gr bullet that will kick Noslers butt, I suggest you try this 135gr Hard Cast HP (Pentagaon Hollow Point) from HS. http://www.hunters-supply.com/

Now, the velocity window is still holding this bullet together through hard core bone and flesh etc, at 1300fps. It WILL NOT FRAG ! It WILL frag at higer speeds (typo corrected and humbly so) :embarrassed:

Ok, just dropping this on ya even in my old timer knot headed, do not agree set in my ways stuff. Because I am a nice guy ! haha. And thought I'd share with you nut jobs (i mean my friends) that you can have a bullet in 135gr, that is not going to FRAG like a Nosler, and will penetrate a vault door (so to speak, ha) and you will, as I said before, "WILL get more penetration" and still be able to to your speed gig, and have a more reliable bullet. Check it out. It will not cost ya but a few $$$ at most.

I am somtimes reluctant to say to much on these forums so I do not look like a smart guy or a wise acre, but I have been doing this for 50 years. I DO NOT know everything. I am VERY old fashion and set in my ways. But what I have done and used and all the guiding and living on the ranch all my life and being blessed to do so very much more than I deserve. I have seen and done a thing or two.

Many and most, are smarter than I, but I have picked up a thing or two.

I been blessed to have friends like John Taffin, and Jack Wilson, and several others to have learned from over the years, and I love all this like y'all do.

So, I am on back meds tonight, and I am in A jolly mood ! haha. And though I hope Nick does not mind me posting this on this particular thread.

Now, BTW... This is my coming out of the closet time: I am a EDC "in town," 45acp M1911 guy as y'all know. BUT, I have 'secretly' been doing a looooooot of work and experinmentation ( i can't spell for heck, haha), with the G29.

I have loaded for and shot and tested the 10mm for almost 14 years now. My EDC on the "ranch" is a 44mag Vaquero/45LC Ruger Vaquero, and my serious large dangerous game hog legs are still the same, along with SBH, and BH, with 300/310 gr HC bullets for the big boys.

BUT, STAY WITH ME I HAVE A POINT.... I have been getting bit by the G29 bug for "human SD " purposes. and have finally come down to every body in the safe except for the M1911 45acp, and the G29. I have discovered great potensial in the G29 through experimentation in loading, that has really impressed me. (still do not like 135gr'ers... sorry) But I am begining to carry the G29 more and more.

Know that was as hard for me to say as it would be to say hey, "we run a nudist camp on the ranch.." hahaha WE DON'T so no smart butt remarks you goobers ! HaHa.

I am just saying that with a KKM on the way and some loads I am working on, I am likeking the little gun. (G29).

Oh BTW... I took photo's asap of the the two books that came in the mail to me today and share with ya'll

I pointed out 'flaws" in the 'load data' to the "complete load data for 10mm and 40 S&W book" company. I know you are all most familar with. This was a year ago.

They freaked out.. The absolutely pulled ALL the their inventory and trashed it, and are trying to let the public know there are 'DANGEROUS" flaws in their manuals for 10mm especially with 800X.

They re-wrote the entitire manual over a years time I been working with them, as I found other dangerous flaws as well, (loooong story) and they have tossed them, (the manuals) costing them a fortune ! They have now reprinted the newer safer updates, and sent me the first one ever seen on earth by anyone but them, and some other compensations as well.

Why am I sharing this? Only 'motive period," is so you guys who use these manuals 'or want to', can now buy them in the "2011 version' and have your data for your 10's SAFE !

I Have NO other motive here, just to help folks out. It was an honor for me. Hey, I got lucky !

Any way, if there is anything here for y'all to benifit from, praise God. I am happy.

So, I hope between this info, and the link provided here with some pics (not enough game pics, I'll do tthat latter when I got the time to scan) I hope somthing here has blessed y'all, and know it is in a heart and spirit of humility and just wanting to share and have some fun doing it.

Thank God I got the loading manuals changed for the 10mm, and a few other cals from presenting my research and testing to these wonderful people, and my hat is off to them to have trashed a ton of $$$$ worth of stuff over a year, with me working with them, and redo-ing the several manuals for the public.

I know I got the first ones every published "correctly" But the 2011 versions are the ones to buy now fellas, especially for 10mm and 40 S&W....

Hope these pics are where you can see them ok..

Well bless y'all and hope this is informative and helpful !


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Old 12-10-2011, 01:13   #106
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thanks cm! wouldnt you know it, I literally just got that load book a month ago! And come to find out it has bad info in it? Could you possibly let me know what info is wrong and what I should do to correct it?
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Old 12-11-2011, 00:33   #107
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Originally Posted by arushus View Post
thanks cm! wouldnt you know it, I literally just got that load book a month ago! And come to find out it has bad info in it? Could you possibly let me know what info is wrong and what I should do to correct it?


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Originally Posted by arushus View Post
thanks cm! wouldnt you know it, I literally just got that load book a month ago! And come to find out it has bad info in it? Could you possibly let me know what info is wrong and what I should do to correct it?



No spell checked used, and in a hurry here....

My friend , I am a loooooong way from my load data info at present. I can just generically tell ya this. Working in conjuction with "complete load data for 10mm and 40 S&W book company." and Hodgdon powder company, over a year, i pointed out to them dangerous load flaws in the 10mm and 40 s&w load data, THEY in turn over this year period worked with Hodgdon (sp) and IMR loads for these two calibers, and 'confirmed' I was correct. They have in the NEW 2011 editions changed some data for the 10mm and 40 s&W, and in their 'Introduction page,' made it abundantly clear to NOT use the data in any of their manuals prior to 2011 new book as they were flawed. !!!!!!

Simply put, with out all my notes here on hand at present, 'what ever you see different in the 2011 edition for 10mm and 40 S&W, compared to the earlier additoins is the correct information NOW." we worked together with Hodgdon and /IMR the same actually, and they ( "complete load data for 10mm and 40 S&W book company). Made some major corrections in their manuals, doing away with ALL the old load data, and taking a year to dump all their printed material, and redo it to a safe level.

Again, consulting with hodgdon after my evaluation/testing of these these dangerous laods in these to calibers with certain bullet weights vs the the powder used, and grain ammount, and coal, and primer, and so on. You can read the thank you note they sent me, and the admition of data changes in their manuals. It cost them a small fortune to do it all, but they saw they were wrong and the data I provided was correct, so they pulled all their printing and re-did it all.

Bottom line: Me being some where away from ALL my notes and calculations for the moment, it is a simple fact that, what is in the NEW 2011 edition, as seen in the leter head I printed here on the 10mm forum, is the SAFE data, and what ever was printed BEFORE 2011 as they said in their introduction to the 10mm and 40S&W in their new 2011 book, they say to DISCARD IT ALL AND NOT USE IT ! Only go by what they revised in the new 2011 edition, they admitted ERROR, and I was blessed by the president of the company and Hodgdon as to pointing all this out to them in our year long research.

I am NOT NOT NOT Looking for attention or graditude... I am just sharing with all my amigos here something of great value and importance in the use of IMR Hi Skor 800X and other loads as well, as can be seen in e NEW manual, as your read the : INTRODUCTION TO 10MM AND 40 S&W. AS THEY ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG AND "CHANGES HAVE BEEN MADE" !

It is that simple. I am, sorry amigo's I am not right now where I have all my year long notes. I am, as I have said, on the road and going through a lot of stuff from the 'ranch survival' to 'personal isssues' as well, and do not have my data with me. But all that matters is that ; The little pamphlet type books we all but called ' "complete load data for 10mm and 40 S&W book company," sold everywhere from cabelas to you name it, ( in every caliber in individaul booklet form) has worked with me and Hodgdon and has seen the errors i pointed out, and have over the years time, tossed ALL their manuls on these pages, and reprinted the correct info as you can read for yourselves in the new 2011 edition."

What ever you read in the 2011 edition, is correct, and they tell you plain as day, DO NOT USE PAST PRINTED MATERIAL FROM THEM AS THERE WERE EROR IN THE DATA !!!! HOW PLAIN CAN THIS BE.? !

I am glad I was able to be a part of this operation, and I sug,gest no matter how you used all the old data, DON"T. Use the data for 40 S&W and 10mm in the 2011 version ONLY. As per this manual company, and Hodgdon powder company, as we all worked on it together. Make sure it is a 2011 manual.

All I can give ya at present as i said, I am, a loooong way for all my year long testing notes I presented to them. I just suggest you use toss all the manulas in these two calibers, ( no matter how well you tell me they work for you, Hodgdon (sp) calims them as dangerous) and use and trust the 2011 NEW edition...

To each his own, but I do believe that Hodgdon and this load data company know more than we do, I am just honored they tested and heard, and belived my test results and pleas to them and saw the danger and re-wrote the manuals...

Humbly, very much so to to the max....



This is just what I do in part..... Love all you amigo's and 10mm fans/junkies !


Sorry for all the mispelled words, I am in a flashof a hurry here. PM me if ya want more details/ i just hope this contribulation will help us all to be be better 10mm/40 s& w weak shooters. I have NO other motive.

Nick, thank you for the the VERY nice PM you sent me, and I really was blessed by it, and several other of you old boys as well. Man it is nice to have good friends, and to be trusted !

Bless y'all











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Old 12-11-2011, 01:39   #108
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I was under the impression the revised versions either hadnt been released or are just now being released...

I must have an older version, because I see nothing in it saying anything about not using old data, or any admittance of wrong numbers being published...

I did notice something different on the cover of my book vs the picture of one you out up. Towards the bottom where it lists the bullet and powder manufacturers, mine has lyman and scot included on the second line, where they are omitted in the picture of the cover you put up...
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:00   #109
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CANYON MAN,

When you get a chance to breathe down there, please post your results of that 135 grain softish headed hard cast. I think that sounds like a potential win.
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:19   #110
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That does look awesome. I have a dehydrater...didn't even think about making any jerky. Right now I am having venison stew leftovers from yesterday's batch which included carrots we grew in our garden, onions, an entire bulb full of garlic, and a couple of redskins. It is absolutely delicious.

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Hey guys ... Just wanted to brag a little and show off the venison we made into jerky to go along with Thanksgiving dinner yeasterday. It was a HUGE HIT at the poker table that night..... MMMMMM

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Old 12-11-2011, 13:06   #111
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I was under the impression the revised versions either hadnt been released or are just now being released...I must have an older version, because I see nothing in it saying anything about not using old data, or any admittance of wrong numbers being published...

I did notice something different on the cover of my book vs the picture of one you out up. Towards the bottom where it lists the bullet and powder manufacturers, mine has lyman and scot included on the second line, where they are omitted in the picture of the cover you put up...

I believe I already mentioned in one my post concerning this, that they have NOT released the NEW manuals to the public yet... Just me !
In fact, it is on my post with the printed letter from the pres that they sent me along with their thanks for my help. You can go back a few post and read the letter I scaned in on the post direct from the data compaany. They said 'you (thats me) are the FIRST to recieve these NEW additions, we have NOT yet released them to the public... Read the letter on my post # 105 (above ya here)

Hang in there amigo. They will be sent out once they triple check it all, and everything I said was in it, IS ..

Good shooting.







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Old 12-11-2011, 13:54   #112
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CANYONMAN,

When you get a chance to breathe down there, please post your results of that 135 grain softish headed hard cast. I think that sounds like a potential win
.

LOL.. Yeh. I am in mode at pesent man... Ha ! Trying to stay alive, not be burned to a crisp or loose a ranch by fire, and all the other things that are going on out here, in the 1" a year rain desert we've had !

I thought of you when I was sent the 135gr HC HP's from JR (hunters supply). I do not know when I will be able to test them completely as I want to, all this has been on the back burner with what we got going on out here Kegs. I can tell ya that JR (Hunters Supply) makes a tremendous bullet. Look at his sight and check out his stuff and vids (if there still up) I posted some pics 'on here or CC' somewhere, the other day, of a Mulie and a hog leg laying on him, and a blown up hog hind qurter we tested a HC HP of Jr's out on. NASTY is the word.

His boolits have taken down all of Africa's big five. He does make quality stuff. I use him (their free for me ha, and they are top notch quality) and Lead Heads for the 250gr Keith, and Cast Performance for the 44mags/45LC's. Hunters Supply and BT for 200gr 10mm, and I really favor the BT I must admit for the 10mm in 200gr.

BTW... JR at HS, will be making a 'heavier bulet in the Pentagon HP pretty soon'. That I am interested in more than the 135gr. I am not (as you know a fan of light bullets. I got to admit though, for close range deer even the 135gr in a Hard Cast HP will do even at 1200/11300fps. It don't take much with hard cast to kill anything.

But for 'you', rocket man, ha, (seriously) you might check them out. Just keep the vels on the 135gr to 1200/1300fps max... They won't frag like Nosler, (at the speeds I gave you), and you do NOT remotley need to push the speed with a hard cast bullet. It is just not required.

Although these are designed well and with low antimony content so not to crack, frag, bust up on hard big bones, they are NOT to be pushed in their velocity. Not needed with any Hard Cast bullet with a big flat Meplat.

Just a head's up for ya if ya try some out. Tell him ya know me, and ask for a small trial pack (free) I am sure there wil be no problem. Talk to him about his velocity suggestions as well. I will still keep them about 1200/1300fps or less. Plenty for deer. Out in the booies human SD, well, I'd run them much slower than that. Never use hard cast for suburban/city SD !!! Cast has the tendancy to go through lots of stuff before it stops ! ha.

I have found these are the best I have seen on the market period, and yes i know there are some good stuff out there, but these compaines I've named (above) have shown me massive devistation on large game and in very very tuff testing, with no cracking, spliting , fragging, or breaking against the hardest of barriers. We have seen animals drt and the bullets end to end them. The 200gr BT for the 10mm at even 1150fps end to end deer easy. I sometimes push them atad more, "Only If,' I think I am going to be taking longer than normal (for me) shots, and maybe at 'oblique' angles, so there is a tad more horse power that far down range, and a tad flatter shooting.

Of course 98% of all my hunting is done with big bore hog legs, not semi's. But the semi's in 10mm are fun I must admit, and Kegs in case you missed it. I have made the G29 my "2nd in line" EDC gun "for when in a town or city," I roll my own 180gr/200gr XTP's. Yes my trusty M1911 or G36 is still the most used. It is glued to my hand . ha. But i have been doing (a while back) a greeeeeat deal of playin around with the G29SF, and have found some interesting potensial (sp) for this little guy. I really am begining to like it. For 2 legged SD, and even a cougar or bobcat if I am in the pick up on a trail out here in brush. Thought you'd faint hearing that. So I wanted to let ya know! haha.

Other than that, These rocket speed loads are 'not needed', and never on a well made HC bullet. They (HC) At the lower vels just blow right through bone and everything in their path man... Try some of those 135's out in the G29 of yours and let us know how ya like 'em.. I'll report on all my testing when I can, (i have not completed all I want to do) but man I am swamped at present with all manner of issues.


Good shooting Kegs !




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Old 12-11-2011, 16:43   #113
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Canyon an in your penetration testing have you compared any of the heavier 10mm loads to 44 mag loads? 10mm's are becoming more popular here in Alaska and there is always a discussion of penetration of 10mm's vs the standard of 44 mags. Some testing has shown that certain 10mm loads penetrate about equal to basic 44 loads. Of course when you get into the heavy bullet/hot 44 loads they do out distance them. Since you have done so much testing I am curious to see what you have found out. Hope all is well with you. Akraven
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Old 12-11-2011, 17:12   #114
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I believe I already mentioned in one my post concerning this, that they have NOT released the NEW manuals to the public yet... Just me !
In fact, it is on my post with the printed letter from the pres that they sent me along with their thanks for my help. You can go back a few post and read the letter I scaned in on the post direct from the data compaany. They said 'you (thats me) are the FIRST to recieve these NEW additions, we have NOT yet released them to the public... Read the letter on my post # 105 (above ya here)

Hang in there amigo. They will be sent out once they triple check it all, and everything I said was in it, IS ..

Good shooting.







CM

I did notice that, but what confused me was you telling me to make sure mine is a 2011 manual, which has the correct information in it. You spoke as though the good manual had been released and it may have been possible that I received it...
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:40   #115
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I did notice that, but what confused me was you telling me to make sure mine is a 2011 manual, which has the correct information in it. You spoke as though the good manual had been released and it may have been possible that I received it...
Sorry you are confussed man. Nope . I simply meant. "Make sure your manuals are 2011 for the new info.." I just assumed folks would understand that the 2011 has the new info, and as I said, it has NOT been released to the public YET, assuming folks would understand to check their sources for this book until they see the 2011 edition. Making sure your is a 2011 (when you buy one) for the NEW info.


I was sent the prototype's or first ones..


Sorry if I did not make it clear enough. I do NOT know when it will hit the shelf. I do believe very soon. But they do want it picture perfect this time as the last bunch was filled with holes (flaws).

So, just call and ask, or keep checking where ever it is you buy yours at, untill ya can grab the 2011 edition..


Good shooting





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Last edited by CanyonMan; 12-12-2011 at 08:44..
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:46   #116
CanyonMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akraven8 View Post
Canyon an in your penetration testing have you compared any of the heavier 10mm loads to 44 mag loads? 10mm's are becoming more popular here in Alaska and there is always a discussion of penetration of 10mm's vs the standard of 44 mags. Some testing has shown that certain 10mm loads penetrate about equal to basic 44 loads. Of course when you get into the heavy bullet/hot 44 loads they do out distance them. Since you have done so much testing I am curious to see what you have found out. Hope all is well with you. Akraven

Let me PM you here in a day or two ok? I feel as though I have already got way off the track a bit on my amigo's thread here, and did not mean for that to happen.

I'll get back with ya in a day or two by PM... Promise !



CM
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:07   #117
akraven8
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Let me PM you here in a day or two ok? I feel as though I have already got way off the track a bit on my amigo's thread here, and did not mean for that to happen.

I'll get back with ya in a day or two by PM... Promise !
CM
Sounds good to me. Thank you! akraven
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Old 12-12-2011, 18:05   #118
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So are you going to post the new IMR 800x data for 135's in 10mm?

Last edited by Burien; 12-12-2011 at 18:06..
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Old 12-12-2011, 23:04   #119
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So are you going to post the new IMR 800x data for 135's in 10mm?


It is in the NEW 2011 manual... I do not want to continue to screw up Nick's thread here off track for hunting,, Nick I sincerley applogize. I had NO idea it was going to go this far amigo.

All ya got to do is wait and or find, the 2011 addition and there ya go.

I also am swamped with PM's. I will answer as I can. I have tremendous ranch and family problems at present, and we're trying not to have the ranch burn down here in all the fires, and we are in the most dangerous spot according to the NFS. So i am slow getting to my mail, but WILL get to ALL those who write.


I really want to help, I just have from fires, to family problems at present, and am screwed up pretty bad in the spine, so I am doing all i can, both here and with y'all, my amigo's. Bear with me.



Bless ya. gotta go !












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Old 12-12-2011, 23:30   #120
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We are blessed to have people like CM and others on our forum. He knows what's he's talking about and loves to share it. Seems as though he's hammered with life's problems right now, though. Trust he will get back with you all, in good time.

in the meantime, any more 10mm deer kills? ::--))
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