[chucky2]

Hi!

I've been doing some Internet research for a while now on which first pistol to get, uses will be range duty first and then when proficient, home defense. It seems like the 10mm offers the best of all worlds as far as power, range, accuracy, modularity (can swap different barrels easily but not the other way around for pistols based on lesser calibers).

My question is, how realistic is it to expect me, as someone who's never shot a real gun before (.22 rifle a few times about 20 years ago), to be able handle even the light 10mm loads (to practice with)?

If 10mm is too much to learn with, should I still go with something like the Glock 20SF and then just right away buy an "easier" caliber barrel to start learning with?

[6StringGeek]

Go to your local range and rent a few different calibers and do some shooting with an experienced friend.

You'll find your comfort level quickly without spending a ton of cash and regretting it later.

Not that you would ever regret buying a g20...that's just crazy talk.

[drsjr1969]

Your only regret will be not buying the Glock 20 SF if you choose otherwise.

As far as "training ammo" I just so happen to have been working on a ammo list for over a year now click below to find weak ammo all the way up to high power full loads.

[_The_Shadow]

Chuck2, to the forum! You would do well to try an experience the gun before hand...

I started with a 44 Magnum and quickly learned how to shoot with it. I feel the same could be done with the 10mm by most people fairly easy! One of the great things about the 10mm is the various loadings avalible for use.

Whatever you decide on get to know and understand your weapon and the way it works with safety in mind!

[TriggerFinger]

Originally Posted by chucky2

Hi!

I've been doing some Internet research for a while now on which first pistol to get, uses will be range duty first and then when proficient, home defense. It seems like the 10mm offers the best of all worlds as far as power, range, accuracy, modularity (can swap different barrels easily but not the other way around for pistols based on lesser calibers).

Get the .45 ACP Glock and you can have all those caliber +1.

Originally Posted by chucky2

If 10mm is too much to learn with, should I still go with something like the Glock 20SF and then just right away buy an "easier" caliber barrel to start learning with?

Get Double Tap ammo. They are watered down to .40 S&W, just cost more.

[21Carrier]

I would get the G20SF. I was in your position several years ago, and I got talked out of the G20SF. Everyone told me that it had too much recoil, it was a dead caliber, etc., etc., etc. I ended up going for the G21SF. Well, I was happy with it, but I always wanted a 10mm. When I finally got a G29 this year, I fell head over heels in love, just like I knew I would. I should have trusted my judgement. It is now PAINFULLY clear to me that all of the 10mm haters out there have never shot one. If they had, they would not speak such trash.

I have been shooting my G21SF less and less lately. However, I just today finished converting it to a G20L, so I will be shooting it much more. The .45ACP is great, but it's nothing like 10mm. You can handle it. Most commercially available 10mm target ammo is not much more powerful than decent .40S&W ammo. AND, the G20SF has a much heavier slide, and thicker grip. They serve to reduce the recoil greatly. I think a G20SF with light 10mm ammo has less recoil than a .40S&W G22. Even medium powered 10mm ammo is no worse than hot SD .40S&W ammo. It's only when you get to the true full-power 10mm ammo that recoil gets pretty stiff. And even then, the G20 handles it REALLY well.

I promise you that when you get your G20SF, and fire the first few shots, you will be wondering what everyone was talking about. It's no big deal. It really isn't. I would HIGHLY recommend spending some time at the range renting guns. Even if you can't find a 10mm Glock, you can shoot some .40S&W versions (which will give you a decent idea of how light-medium 10mm will feel), and you will learn how much a 9mm or .40S&W recoils. This will give you experience and better perspective when you step up to the G20.

There are several people around here who bought G20s as their first handguns, so you won't be the first. They had no issues, and LOVE their guns. Off the top of my head is GT member Arushus. Talk to him. Also, the .40S&W conversion barrel is a good idea. It will help you get in more practice for less money. Eventually, you will be bitten by the reloading bug (as most 10mm fans do), and will buy a press. So, save all of your brass. Even if you never reload, many of us will buy it from you. Good luck with your decision, and welcome to GT!

[michael e]

Get the 10mm, you will be fine. To be honest factory ammo is not what too much to handle. Most people that tell you 10mm is too much have never shot 10mm.

[agtman]

"10mm: Too much for a beginner?"

Depends on the beginner ...

Just sayin'.

[bac1023]

[smokeross]

Originally Posted by agtman

Depends on the beginner ...

Just sayin'.

Went to my gravel pit yesterday and helped a woman shoot her deceased Dad's old Ruger Flat Top .44 mag. This is the 6.5 inch, fluted cylinder model. The lady was 5"2" and we first shot .44 Special loads, but before we were done she shot factory magnum loads and some hot hand loads. Her Dad has been dead for 21 years. The gun had not been shot for all those years. During a break in the shooting (we shot 150 rounds through 3 different guns) I looked at her and said, "I'm sure your Dad is smiling right now." She smiled right back at me and said "I want to shoot the .44 some more."

[Atomic Punk]

all depends on you. i like my G20. my wife loves her little G29. my friend thinks my G20 has way to much recoil for him. my wife is rather skinny and thin. my friend has held up a car while i changed the tire.

[Glock Master]

[chucky2]

Everyone,

Thank you for all the responses! I really didn't think I'd get near that many, I really appreciate all the feedback and advice!

Few comments back to the thread:

1.) Very good idea on going to the range and trying out some rentals. I had/have that idea myself. Got to take a basic pistol course, then I can go to about the only range around here with lots of rental options: MegaSports in Plainfield (or so I've found after lots of calling and asking around).

2.) Where do you guys (that buy factory) get light load target ammo from for 10mm? Same place for other calibers?

3.) TriggerFinger: I'm a little confused by what you've posted regarding the 21SF. Are you saying that if I get the 21SF, then I can just buy a 10mm barrel and I'm good to go not only for 10mm, but the 21SF can take the other calibers the 20SF can take too (9x25, .40, .357SIG, others?)? If so, can the 20SF also convert to .45ACP? Being able to shoot .45ACP would be sorta nice, I've got a buddy that has one so being able to go to the range with just one type of ammo would reduce complexity there.

Thanks again for all the advice!

Chuck

[21Carrier]

Originally Posted by chucky2

3.) TriggerFinger: I'm a little confused by what you've posted regarding the 21SF. Are you saying that if I get the 21SF, then I can just buy a 10mm barrel and I'm good to go not only for 10mm, but the 21SF can take the other calibers the 20SF can take too (9x25, .40, .357SIG, others?)? If so, can the 20SF also convert to .45ACP? Being able to shoot .45ACP would be sorta nice, I've got a buddy that has one so being able to go to the range with just one type of ammo would reduce complexity there.

Thanks again for all the advice!

Chuck

Here's the deal. The G21 CAN convert to 10mm with a barrel and magazines, and I've heard from at least one guy that says his reliability is decent. However, Lone Wolf has said they no longer make that barrel because of reliability concerns. So, it sounds like you CAN do it, but reliability might be a toss up. Also, I don't think anyone makes conversion barrels for the G21 in .40S&W, .357Sig, 9x25 Dillon, or 9mm. However, you can get ALL of those calibers easily, and with perfect reliability with the G20. You can NOT convert a G20 to .45ACP, because the breech face is too small (it's sized for a .400" 10mm, and .45ACP is larger).

In my opinion, there are a couple of things that make the G20 the better starting point. First, the G20 and G29 have thicker and heavier slides (internally, the external dimensions are identical to the .45ACP Glocks), which really help to soak up recoil, and slow down slide speed. I would imagine a converted G21 with a 10mm barrel would REQUIRE a 24lb spring. That will likely cause feeding issues. Simply, the G20 slide is designed for 10mm, the G21 is not. Second, the G20 is VERY simple to convert. Because .40S&W, .357Sig, and 9x25 Dillon were all based on the 10mm Auto to some extent, they all share the same breech face and extractor. This means that you will have perfect reliability with all of these calibers. When using a G21, you have an oversized breech face, and loose extractor. Third, you cannot convert a G21 to 9mm. You can convert the G20 to 9mm. Fourth, you can use your G20 magazines for all of these conversion calibers, even 9mm. Last, because of the heavier slide of the G20, many people find it is an even better platform for the smaller calibers like .40S&W. You get less recoil than if you bought a G22.

Yes, you CAN convert a G21 to 10mm, but the other conversions will not be ideally designed, and may be difficult to find. I would only recommend the G21 if you are PRIMARILY interested in .45ACP. If you want to mainly shoot 10mm and .40S&W, the G20 is the gun for you.

[awdxtc]

I buy my target loads at my local gun store I just scored 4 boxes of cci blazer for $24 per box of 50.

[DWARREN123]

My G20 is softer shooting than my G22 with more powerful loads. Bigger gun, more mass, less felt recoil in my opinion.
Make sure it fits you correctly, it is a big gun.

[arushus]

I own a G20sf, and it isnt too much of a gun for a beginner to handle, by any means. But, on the off chance you dont like 10mm as much as you thought you would, it converts very nicely to .40sw. I have a lwd conversion barrel for mine, and it has been just as reliable as the stock barrel, more so even! I wholeheartedly recommend a G20 without hesitation or pause. You will not regret it! It is simply an awesome caliber.

I buy cheap .40cal ammo for plinking and target shooting, and buy hot 10mm ammo from swampfoxgunworks.com for home and self defense, it is the only ammo Ive come across that consistently meets its published velocities. Doubletap will not, do not buy ammo from them and expect it to be all it says it is. cheaperthandirt.com is good for cheap ammo.

[ModGlock17]

If you ever thought 10mm is a man's caliber, here is a video of a skinny woman shooting G29.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fuh5...deo&playnext=2

In my experience, after hearing all the tales about recoil of 10mm, after I shot a whole mag on the G20, my first thought was "Is that all there is?"

People's barks about 10mm is worse than the bite.

Then I heard about how bad the G29 would be compared to the G20. Now, in hind sight, I wish I had bought the G29 in place of the G26 9mm. Although the G26 is a very very very good gun, the G29 is better.

My prediction is that you will get both G20 and G29, eventually. They complement each others so well.

[ModGlock17]

Originally Posted by smokeross

Went to my gravel pit yesterday and helped a woman shoot her deceased Dad's old Ruger Flat Top .44 mag. This is the 6.5 inch, fluted cylinder model. The lady was 5"2" and we first shot .44 Special loads, but before we were done she shot factory magnum loads and some hot hand loads. Her Dad has been dead for 21 years. The gun had not been shot for all those years. During a break in the shooting (we shot 150 rounds through 3 different guns) I looked at her and said, "I'm sure your Dad is smiling right now." She smiled right back at me and said "I want to shoot the .44 some more."

That must be Sarah Palins's mom.

[ModGlock17]

Ammo wise, two sources with the best prices I've seen:

Georgia Arms. I've verified that it is as they advertised in speed.
http://georgia-arms.com/10mm-1.aspx

BVAC, sold at cheaperthandirt.com. It's less than advertised, but cheap.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM5832-1.html

Like others have said, save them brass !

[arushus]

Originally Posted by ModGlock17

Ammo wise, two sources with the best prices I've seen:

Georgia Arms. I've verified that it is as they advertised in speed.
http://georgia-arms.com/10mm-1.aspx

BVAC, sold at cheaperthandirt.com. It's less than advertised, but cheap.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM5832-1.html

Like others have said, save them brass !

Thanks mod, I forgot to mention georgia arms...they do meet their advertised velocities also, and they are a very good deal. Great target ammo for 10mm.

Ive run 200rds of BVAC through my 20, and I have no complaints other than it nowhere near meets its 1200fps stated velocity, more like 1000fps...that being said, it isnt too dirty, and shoots well, and they use reloadable brass! But, for the price, you are better off buying from georgia arms, unless you have some other stuff you are buying from cheaperthandirt that would help spread out the cost of shipping, which was the case when I ordered four boxes of it...

[alwaysshootin]

Welcome Chucky2! If you live anywhere around the Cincy area, I'd be more than happy to let you sling some lead down range to give her a try. I have everything from mild to wild, in 10MM ammo.

Get the G20, you know you want to, and, no matter what you decide on, firearms wise, if it's something other than a 10, you will just have to get one down the road, anyway! To a novice, you won't be able to tell a 40, from a 45, from a 10MM. They are all, "for real" and, none, would you describe as being soft shooting firearms. By the way, the three calibers, mentioned above, do not kick like a snub nosed .357, or any of the 44 mag plus firearms, so with confidence I say get a 10! You'll love it! Not to mention, you only get to buy your first handgun once. Make it a winner!!!!!!!!!!!

[rjkobbeman]

Originally Posted by chucky2

Hi!

I've been doing some Internet research for a while now on which first pistol to get, uses will be range duty first and then when proficient, home defense. It seems like the 10mm offers the best of all worlds as far as power, range, accuracy, modularity (can swap different barrels easily but not the other way around for pistols based on lesser calibers).

My question is, how realistic is it to expect me, as someone who's never shot a real gun before (.22 rifle a few times about 20 years ago), to be able handle even the light 10mm loads (to practice with)?

If 10mm is too much to learn with, should I still go with something like the Glock 20SF and then just right away buy an "easier" caliber barrel to start learning with?

It is not too much to learn with. The 10 is indeed awesome, but its recoil is exaggerated by many. The biggest drawback (if you want to call it that) is its size. It is physically larger than the smallerish-framed 9mm/.40/Sig/Gap guns. I strongly recommend handling one first. The "SF" variation is recommended for medium to smaller hands. I own the "SF" versions of both the 20 and 29. Love them both.

Honestly, just learn proper holding/shooting technique and you have nothing to worry about.

[edporch]

If nothing else, start with the 10mm loads that are little more than .40 in their ballistics.
Then work up to the full power loads as you feel comfortable.

[smokeross]

Come on over. We'll shoot a hundred rounds through the .454 Casull. The 10 will seem like a .22 after that.