Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-15-2011, 09:43   #1
Batesmotel
Senior Member
 
Batesmotel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 76 Totters Ln. London
Posts: 13,372
Can a cop do this?

A friend was at family dinner last night at his fathers. A bad argument broke out and accusations were made about his wife. She was being blamed for their sons birth defect. He packed up his wife and kids and left before things got physical.

The family called the cops claiming he left in a rage and he was a danger to his kids. Cop showed up at his house and ordered him to return to his fathers house so they could all sort everything out. He refused and slammed the door on the cop. Today he finds out he might be facing charges for disobeying the orders of a police officer. A detective is coming today to take his statement.

Can a cop order someone to return to a place where no crime was committed? Any suggestions?
__________________
It's smaller on the outside.
Batesmotel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 09:50   #2
IndyGunFreak
KO Windows
 
IndyGunFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 30,333
Send a message via ICQ to IndyGunFreak Send a message via AIM to IndyGunFreak Send a message via MSN to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Yahoo to IndyGunFreak Send a message via Skype™ to IndyGunFreak


So... how much alcohol was involved?

As to whether they can do that or not... I dunno. Sounds kinda shady to me. They might be sending a detective over just to try and glean some info from him regarding the situation, rather than actually pursuing charges.

I'm not sure I'd give a statement w/o legal counsel in that situation though.
__________________
Quote:
Ronald Reagan
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
"Man is not free unless Government is limited"
IndyGunFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 10:06   #3
Cav
Senior Member
 
Cav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 2,267
Well I will guess we dont know what the caller stated happened, or the parties at that location stated occured.

Also do not know exactly what the 'suspect' said or did.
__________________
We need more restrictions on the 1st Amendment and less on the 2nd Amendment.
Cav is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 10:33   #4
RVER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: PA
Posts: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
Can a cop order someone to return to a place where no crime was committed? Any suggestions?
Can he? He did and your friend didn't go. So moving on to should he? That may depend on the state, reservation, territory or heck even country. Don't let it wreck your weekend, you only get four of them a month...

Edited to say: I'm not being an *****. Police deal with this type of situation often times several times per shift and chances are that they won't over react. Unfortunately if your friends father stated that he left in a rage and was a danger to his kids AND your friend reacted to the officer by slamming the door rather discussing the situation further maybe the agency has a legitimate concern that may need to be cleared up. Don't let it wreck your weekend, you only get four of them a month...

Last edited by RVER; 10-15-2011 at 10:41..
RVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 10:33   #5
Officer X
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 1,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post

The family called the cops claiming he left in a rage and he was a danger to his kids. Cop showed up at his house and ordered him to return to his fathers house so they could all sort everything out. He refused and slammed the door on the cop. Today he finds out he might be facing charges for disobeying the orders of a police officer. A detective is coming today to take his statement.
Without knowing all the details, here is goes;

We get called to do welfare checks on children all the time, mostly due to divorce/child custody issues and most of those are BS.

We would definitely not be looking to have him return anywhere to sort anything out. If need be, they're adults and they can sort it out themselves at a later date. The more important issue would be to make sure the kids were ok.

If we did get the call of a check and the caller reported that he left in a rage and was a danger to his kids, then he slammed the door on the cop who went to speak to him, that could very well substantiate the concerns. There is no way any officer from my agency would be walking away then and having a detective follow up, if dad refused to cooperate any further at that point, it's likely that an entry would be made to see if those kids were ok. If it had to be escalated to that point, an arrest would be made at that point for Obstruction and a call would most likely be placed to child services.

I've never had to go that far though, most incidents can be handled by talking.
Officer X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 10:51   #6
Knute
"Nothin"
 
Knute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 455
I can see why your friend got into an argument with his family. He's such a stand-up guy that he slams doors in the faces of police. Here's the thing, you don't know that a crime didn't occur. You only heard your friend's version of what happened. You have no idea what was reported to the police as having occurred. I'm not sure why the officer wanted your friend to return to his dad's rather than just getting his version of what happened at his home and checking on the kids and neither do you. Unfortunately, your friend made things worse and instead of having it dealt with last night, he's now got a detective crawling up his ***** at his home, and you can be guaranteed a report will be forwarded on to DHS regardless of the findings.

+1 on the question of how much were they drinking???
Knute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 11:16   #7
Goldendog Redux
Shut your mouth
 
Goldendog Redux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Nevada
Posts: 6,121
Once again the police are used to facilitate revenge rather than enforce laws
__________________
In Omnia Paratus
Goldendog Redux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 11:24   #8
merlynusn
Senior Member
 
merlynusn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 3,273
+1 to OfficerX and Knute. If i get a report the kids are in danger, I'd just ask to see the kids and ensure they are safe. I'd talk to the dad and figure out what happened. I certainly wouldn't have him return anywhere. If there is enough to arrest him based on what the other parties said, then the arrest would be made. If not, then no arrest is made. But slamming the door in the cop's face is not the answer. And there is no charge for him "disobeying" the officers orders. At least none that I can see based on the facts you presented. Now it might be different in that jurisdiction since I don't know what random laws they have. But here it certainly wouldn't be a charge.
merlynusn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 12:09   #9
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 22,649
I find it almost as difficult to believe that he was ordered to return to a disturbance as I do that officers where there to check the welfare of children after a potentially legitimate complaint and he slammed the door so they left without checking on the children. Just a guess but I think some information is missing or incorrect here.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 12:21   #10
4949shooter
Senior Member
 
4949shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Jersey Republik
Posts: 13,009


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce M View Post
I find it almost as difficult to believe that he was ordered to return to a disturbance as I do that officers where there to check the welfare of children after a potentially legitimate complaint and he slammed the door so they left without checking on the children. Just a guess but I think some information is missing or incorrect here.
Yep..
__________________
"...the men under your command deserve your leadership."-OXCOPS
4949shooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 12:44   #11
COLOSHOOTR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 910
Having him return back to the scene of a disturbance just to get everyone there yelling again makes no sense and there has to be more to it.
__________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

-George Orwell-
COLOSHOOTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 12:46   #12
Mayhem like Me
Semper Paratus
 
Mayhem like Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,950
Blog Entries: 3
so why did you slam the door again?
__________________
How do you establish intent?
Well when a naked man is chasing a woman down an alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he's not collecting for the red cross...Inspector H. Callahan
Mayhem like Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 12:58   #13
p.d.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dry Ridge, Kentucky
Posts: 1,286
No one has come out and said it yet, so I will. I'm calling bull hockey on the return to dad's house business. If family members have already separated voluntarily, I'm not getting them back together so I can referee round two, and I've never seen any other cop do that in my entire career.
p.d. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 13:00   #14
PinkoCommie
Unusual Member
 
PinkoCommie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 2,924


Things did not happen as the story would have it. I wasn't there, but I would bet $1 that an objective observer would say that this is not how it went down.
__________________
--PinkoCommie
_________________________________________
Maybe I'm crazy. --DaBigBR
This wasn't me... --DaBigBR
I was hauling a large quotient of ass. --Cochese
PinkoCommie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 13:13   #15
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,873
There is a lot missing. Mostly the other half of the story.

As for the "going back to dad's." I wouldn't be surprised if the officer said something like, "Why don't you go smooth things over with your dad" and the guy hears, "Go back to dad's house and work it out."

That is why I love recording the crap out of people when they are all hot and bothered. That way when they complain they get to hear me say something completely different than what they think I said.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT

Last edited by CAcop; 10-15-2011 at 13:13..
CAcop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 13:16   #16
Dragoon44
Lifetime Membership
Unfair Facist
 
Dragoon44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 24,416
I agree that the claim he was ordered to return to the residence sounds bogus no Cop wants to reunite folks that have a problem especially a potentially physically violent one. Their goal is usually to get the folks separated so everyone can cool off.

The whole things sounds like the typical dysfunctional family scenario.
__________________
“Right is still right, even if nobody is doing it. And wrong is still wrong, even if everybody is doing it.”—Texas Ranger saying.
Dragoon44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 13:25   #17
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,546
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
A friend was at family dinner last night at his fathers.
Who was there? Was it just the the friend, his wife, their kids and the parents?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
A bad argument broke out and accusations were made about his wife.
Who made the first negative comment? Who retaliated, the son or his wife? Has this discussion happened before? Were the children present?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
She was being blamed for their sons birth defect.
Who was blaming her? How was it her fault?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
He packed up his wife and kids and left before things got physical.
What were the parting words by the son and his wife? What were the parting words by the father and others there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
The family called the cops claiming he left in a rage and he was a danger to his kids.
What behavior did the family say led them to believe he would harm his own kids? How soon after he left the house did the family call?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
Cop showed up at his house
How long after he left the father's house did the police arrive at his house?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
and ordered him to return to his fathers house so they could all sort everything out.
I am going to guess that there is more to this conversation. What did the police initially say about the father's call? What was his response to the police. How long did they talk before 'ordering' him to return to the father's house? Why did the police say they wanted to get everyone together again? Did the police want just him to return? Did they want he and the wife? How about the kids?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
He refused and slammed the door on the cop.
Is your friend known for his temper? What did he say to the police before he slammed the door?[/quote] Today he finds out he might be facing charges for disobeying the orders of a police officer. A detective is coming today to take his statement.[QUOTE=Batesmotel;18044884]What is his game plan for talking with the detective. Is there going to be anyone there to advise him to STFU? If he goes ballistic again, he might have a visit from Child Protective Services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batesmotel View Post
Can a cop order someone to return to a place where no crime was committed? Any suggestions?
Yes, have someone there who can tell him to ST...well, I've already said that.
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 16:04   #18
Morris
CLM Number
Charter Lifetime Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North of Seattle, South of Canada
Posts: 11,477


Threads like this always have me breaking out the popcorn popper.
__________________
Neo-pagan, FORMER Libertarian, Cop, Gun Owner, Jewish Heritage - I'm the small talk at parties!

Certified Glock Armorer
Certified M&P Armorer

Say NO! to Washington I-594
Morris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 16:16   #19
beatcop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 1,900
Doesn't add up.

..but, my .02 is that we have no "authority" to make anyone move anywhere, unless a refusal will constitute a violation of some sort.

In this scenario, I wouldn't facilitiate my own arrest if I was a suspect either. There is no obligation to cooperate if you're the suspect.
beatcop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2011, 17:48   #20
nikerret
Mr. Awesome
 
nikerret's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 7,073
What needs to be said has been said. Tagged to follow.
__________________
-Ambition is only appreciated after success.
-3/325:Now, where's my dedicated bodyguard? Oh, yeah, he's staring back at me in the mirror.
-"Every fear hides a wish"

Last edited by nikerret; 10-15-2011 at 17:49..
nikerret is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:11.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,093
285 Members
808 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31