[pleaforwar]

Originally Posted by mick238

No body wants to comment on the one usaammo is selling?

Also for the purists who makes the closest replica of a true m4?

Sure.

1) That rifle is not the backbone of the U.S. Armed Services
2) You will not be a "high-speed operator" if you go through that training.

I don't stray into these PSA vs. Brand X arguments often because I can't comment on PSA's quality. What I can say is that I would rather roll the dice with a brand that produces to a higher standard of specifications than a brand who doesn't disclose the quality of their product.

In other words, I'd rather wait a few months and save for a budget rifle from a proven manufacturer.

[TedG]

Originally Posted by bmoore

I dont think anyone has experience with the usaammo one. I think Colt would be your best bet if your trying to as close to an M4 as possible.

+1

[bmoore]

Originally Posted by pleaforwar

Sure.

1) That rifle is not the backbone of the U.S. Armed Services
2) You will not be a "high-speed operator" if you go through that training.

I don't stray into these PSA vs. Brand X arguments often because I can't comment on PSA's quality. What I can say is that I would rather roll the dice with a brand that produces to a higher standard of specifications than a brand who doesn't disclose the quality of their product.

In other words, I'd rather wait a few months and save for a budget rifle from a proven manufacturer.

I seriously laughed out loud when that guy said "high speed operator" in the video.

[mick238]

Originally Posted by bmoore

I dont think anyone has experience with the usaammo one. I think Colt would be your best bet if your trying to as close to an M4 as possible.

Haha normally that doesnt stop people from throwing out opinions.

[powder86]

Originally Posted by TedG

Mid-length is the current rage. Everybody has an opinion about mid vs car length rifles, and the argument is not worth opening again and again.

As for prices, I doubt that the middy deserves more money, but supply and demand will drive the market. If you really want a middy, is it worth $100 more to you? Other companies do the same. It's not a bad business practice.

I can remember when Harley's carried a "premium" above the MSRP and they had a 6 month waiting list. That's what drove the market. Now, you can negociate a price that is less than MSRP.

If you are willing to wait, the price of a middy may come down. If you can't wait.... pay the premium.

it's not my intent to start any major debate. I'm really just learning all i can about ARs right now. and i keep stumbling on to this idea that middys are supposed to be better than carbine. just looking to confirm or deny this. i have no real investment either way. is one actually better than another? or is it just negligible?

[sigman69]

this one looks good for the money

http://palmettostatearmory.com/8923.php

I think that STAG Arms makes good AR's for the money.

[WoodenPlank]

Originally Posted by powder86

it's not my intent to start any major debate. I'm really just learning all i can about ARs right now. and i keep stumbling on to this idea that middys are supposed to be better than carbine. just looking to confirm or deny this. i have no real investment either way. is one actually better than another? or is it just negligible?

My understanding is the middy gas system runs a little smoother in a 16" barrel, and results in less stress and strain on the BCG, plus less felt recoil. Can't use a middy system on a 10.5" barrel, so I don't currently have a middy.

[Baba Louie]

Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

Good price point on the PSA offering. Probably goes bang just fine.

Even Colt, when first making the M16, had a helluva learning curve that actually cost young mens lives in combat. (combined with USA decision on powder, chrome or not within, clean/no clean, etc) They've learned a lot in 50 years to everyones benefit.

But... I once had my 6721 jam up bad using a friends reloads and it (the Colt) only cost me a few dollars more... like twice PSAs carbine offering. I kept the Colt, ditched the ammo, learned a lesson. My life was not on any line at the time, simple recreational shooting... thank goodness.

Every company has got to start somewhere.

[Frog1]

Most parts are parts made for AR's. You would be surprised who makes them.

If I was someone who doesn't know how to work on an AR, I would stick with the better brands and the warranty.

But for me, I am not afraid of any of the knock offs or parts kits. I am still trying to figure out the value of M4 feed ramps on a semi auto rifle. To each his own.

[powder86]

just ordered one... but as i was filling out the information there was no where to put in FFL info... so i had to email them to try get that info to them.

now i gotta figure out what flip up rear sights to use. recommendations that hold zero?

[bmoore]

Originally Posted by powder86

just ordered one... but as i was filling out the information there was no where to put in FFL info... so i had to email them to try get that info to them.

now i gotta figure out what flip up rear sights to use. recommendations that hold zero?

My Magpul flip up BUIS has been fantastic. Now remember, I dont have 14,000 rounds down it, more like a few hundred. Magpul makes nice equipment though.

[Eurodriver]

Originally Posted by Frog1

Most parts are parts made for AR's. You would be surprised who makes them.

But for me, I am not afraid of any of the knock offs or parts kits. I am still trying to figure out the value of M4 feed ramps on a semi auto rifle. To each his own.

I agree, alot of parts are supplied by the same manufacturers and stamped with different brand names. A perfect example is a Spikes Tactical Stripped Lower receiver I bought because aside from the roll mark, it is just like 99% of all the other forged, stripped lower receivers.

As for M4 feedramps, whether or not the rifle is full or semi auto is irrelavent. The speed which the bolt carrier moves is exactly the same. The M4 Feedramps are beneficial because of the higher operating pressures and carrier speeds in the carbine and mid length gas systems.

How that works, I'm not sure. One would think that since the BCG comes to a full stop on the ejection cycle that its return to battery speed would always be the same regardless how much gas got it back there.

[Tango 1Zero]

I recently bought one of their 16" Carbine kits. I ran over 300 rounds through it Saturday with not one malfunction.
M4 ramps were lined up. This isnt my first AR. My first was a Bushmaster and my second was a Model 1 on an American Spirit Arms lower. Everybody was against ASA then. Its crap etc. It turned out to be my best AR I have ever owned. I have had Armalites, Eagle, Spikes. I have shot a few colts but I dont play the brand name game anymore. Unless you want a certain build up of parts your still getting American made parts from Government suppliers.
PSA stands behind their products also.
I built my Carbine for less than $600

[powder86]

Originally Posted by bmoore

My Magpul flip up BUIS has been fantastic. Now remember, I dont have 14,000 rounds down it, more like a few hundred. Magpul makes nice equipment though.

is that a polymer one? i'm not inherently opposed to polymer, but i do assume that an aluminum or metal sight of some kind may hold zero better for a flip up sight.
i'm glad you've had a good experience with yours though. i'd consider it. i'm interested in how it holds up for another 1000 rounds or so.

[bmoore]

Originally Posted by powder86

is that a polymer one? i'm not inherently opposed to polymer, but i do assume that an aluminum or metal sight of some kind may hold zero better for a flip up sight.
i'm glad you've had a good experience with yours though. i'd consider it. i'm interested in how it holds up for another 1000 rounds or so.

Yes its polymer. Troy would be my choice for metal/aluminum.

[redwzrd]

who need tv when you got threads like this

[Matthew Courtney]

Every brand is a crap shoot. From time to time well established brands let QC slide to reduce costs and boost profits while cashing in on their brand name.

Don't trust your gun. Don't trust GT. Trust yourself. Get some training while testing some rifles and learn how to deal with malfunctions. Then if you think that you could fight better with a different rifle, get a different rifle. There won't likely be any glocktalkers present when you have goblins to deal with, so the needs of other GT'ers shouldn't matter.

[Jitterbug]

I own a BCM and a RR, both have stainless barrels, both cost me around $1200 about 2 years ago. Great carbines both.

The keyboard commandos tell me my RR is junk and it will jam and break and parts will fall off.

Fact is they both have the same round count and both run great after many thousands of rounds. The RR is a 1MOA shooter the BCM is a 2 MOA shooter.

I didn't know squat and read every review, chart and forum out there.

All I can say after being a "gun guy" for over 50 years is that for a simple parts gun, AR/M4's are overpriced, being a small business owner I'm ok with it. Especially since most of them are made right here in the good old USA. So if anyone can squeak more $$$ out of a simple carbine with marketing then more power to them...makes me a Gunfighter.

I hadn't heard about PSA's offering until now, good for them and their $599 carbine, free market at work and I hope it works out to be a good little carbine for them and their purchasers, about time.

[TedG]

Originally Posted by Jitterbug

I own a BCM and a RR, both have stainless barrels, both cost me around $1200 about 2 years ago. Great carbines both.

The keyboard commandos tell me my RR is junk and it will jam and break and parts will fall off.

Fact is they both have the same round count and both run great after many thousands of rounds. The RR is a 1MOA shooter the BCM is a 2 MOA shooter.

I didn't know squat and read every review, chart and forum out there.

All I can say after being a "gun guy" for over 50 years is that for a simple parts gun, AR/M4's are overpriced, being a small business owner I'm ok with it. Especially since most of them are made right here in the good old USA. So if anyone can squeak more $$$ out of a simple carbine with marketing then more power to them...makes me a Gunfighter.

I hadn't heard about PSA's offering until now, good for them and their $599 carbine, free market at work and I hope it works out to be a good little carbine for them and their purchasers, about time.

Good post.

[punkey71]

Sorry I'm late...just saw this. You have two SS barreled AR's and can't get sub MOA out of either of them? Brands be damned...seriously? Is it a Tasco scope and USGI trigger?

Come on man...you've gotta be kidding me. Two quality equipped guns with triggers, rests, optics and match ammo should both be sub MOA.

If either won't do it with with the above there is a problem....and it ain't the gun.

Sorry.

If you are saying you are shooting range ammo with a USGI trigger and a crappy low power optic sitting on your range bag then sure. Today you get 1 moa, tomorrow 3 moa and the next day you are at 2 moa.

Originally Posted by Jitterbug

I own a BCM and a RR, both have stainless barrels, both cost me around $1200 about 2 years ago. Great carbines both.

The keyboard commandos tell me my RR is junk and it will jam and break and parts will fall off.

Fact is they both have the same round count and both run great after many thousands of rounds. The RR is a 1MOA shooter the BCM is a 2 MOA shooter.

I didn't know squat and read every review, chart and forum out there.

All I can say after being a "gun guy" for over 50 years is that for a simple parts gun, AR/M4's are overpriced, being a small business owner I'm ok with it. Especially since most of them are made right here in the good old USA. So if anyone can squeak more $$$ out of a simple carbine with marketing then more power to them...makes me a Gunfighter.

I hadn't heard about PSA's offering until now, good for them and their $599 carbine, free market at work and I hope it works out to be a good little carbine for them and their purchasers, about time.

[cciman]

This same discussion applies to cubic zirconia, generic bleach, 1911's and Rolex watches.

Rolex vs. Rolex look alike:

Similarities: they both tell time, no one else will know the difference from 10 feet away.

Differences:
Fake will not get as much maintenance, and you can buy hundreds/thousands before matching the price of a Rolex (therefore, disposable)

Real is waterproof
Real needs yearly servicing for $350, genuine parts are not cheap either
Fake may not last as long, especially since you will never service it-- but heck, just buy another.