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Old 11-12-2011, 12:10   #1
mike g35
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S&W627PC / ICORE / 38 major load?

Anyone know of a 38 special load that can safely make major power factor for ICORE? I own a S&W627pc, chambered for 38/357 and I want to shoot it in a few local ICORE competitions next year. Thanks in advance.
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Old 11-12-2011, 12:21   #2
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Gonna be tough... how long is the barrel?
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Old 11-12-2011, 14:38   #3
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Barrel is 5 inches. I was considering having the caliber changed to 38 super. I just prefer to keep this as simple (and cheap) as possible.
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Old 11-12-2011, 14:46   #4
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What's ICORE? All these acronyms give me a headache. What ever happened to the phrase... "lets go shoot some stuff."


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Old 11-12-2011, 15:08   #5
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Why not just load some mid range .357 magnums? The 357 mag might be a bit more accurate and you will avoid the the ring of crude inside the chambers from using 38spls.

The .357 mag case is (I think) only .1" longer than the .38 spl, so it won't slow down your reloads too much. I suggest in .357 mag using a 158gr or 180gr hard cast lead round nose bullet over some Hodgdon Universal. Another load I used in my GP-100 was a 140gr truncated cone lead bullet over 6.2gr Universal. It averaged around 1,200 fps through my GP-100's six inch barrel.
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Old 11-12-2011, 15:35   #6
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Everyone in ICORE is minor unless you go sub-minor like Jack... No major/minor. Just a minimum PF of 120.
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Old 11-12-2011, 17:48   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hozer View Post
Everyone in ICORE is minor unless you go sub-minor like Jack... No major/minor. Just a minimum PF of 120.
You're right, I forgot that. I was planning on shooting the revolver in some USPSA matches also, that why I was thinking of major, so the need to make major is still there but nearly as important. What about a load for the 38 to make 120PF? I am VERY new to all of this reloading stuff, actually I am just getting my load data together right now. I get my Dillon reloading gear next month. Anyway thats why I have all the questions.
And you said to try the 38 long colt brass also in a different thread. Does that require different reloading dies? Will they "behave" the same as the 38 special rounds, meaning will they operate correctly? I have to be able to reload fast and...well you know the game. Just wanna be sure what I try is something done for the sport I intend to shoot.
I should have bought one of the Talo S&W627pc 38 super v-comps. Then these problems wouldn't exist. I might stick in the limited division with this one then buy the super and shoot it in open. But I want to shoot a few matches first to see if I like ICORE enough to spend another two grand.
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Old 11-12-2011, 19:58   #8
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Did you think about just looking in your reloading manual. Maybe use BullsEye just to make Jack happy.
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Old 11-13-2011, 07:16   #9
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Very few factory 38 spl will make 125 PF that is why IDPA lowered PF in SSR. 38+p will make it most of the time but with some fast powders the loads go beyond +p data. So ONLY USE THESE LOADS IN A 357 magnum.


Any of these should be fine for your 120 pf game

Using Berrys 158g loaded to 1.525" out of a 4" 357

3.3 VVN310 avg 803 fps

4.4 Clays avg 803 fps

4.2 Titegroup avg 809 fps

6.1 HS6 avg 802 fps

4.3 Bullseye avg 805 fps

Again DON'T USE THESE LOADS IN A 38 SPL only a 357.

Do any and everyone a favor that might come across your loads and don't make any major PF ammo using 38 spl cases.

Last edited by jmorris; 11-13-2011 at 07:21..
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Old 11-13-2011, 07:31   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
Very few factory 38 spl will make 125 PF that is why IDPA lowered PF in SSR. 38+p will make it most of the time but with some fast powders the loads go beyond +p data. So ONLY USE THESE LOADS IN A 357 magnum.


Any of these should be fine for your 120 pf game

Using Berrys 158g loaded to 1.525" out of a 4" 357

3.3 VVN310 avg 803 fps

4.4 Clays avg 803 fps

4.2 Titegroup avg 809 fps

6.1 HS6 avg 802 fps

4.3 Bullseye avg 805 fps

Again DON'T USE THESE LOADS IN A 38 SPL only a 357.

Do any and everyone a favor that might come across your loads and don't make any major PF ammo using 38 spl cases.
791 fps with a 158 is hard to do? I haven't bothered to check factory loads, but I'd be surprised if most of them don't break 800fps. Many non+P handloads will do that.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:42   #11
mike g35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorris View Post
Very few factory 38 spl will make 125 PF that is why IDPA lowered PF in SSR. 38+p will make it most of the time but with some fast powders the loads go beyond +p data. So ONLY USE THESE LOADS IN A 357 magnum.


Any of these should be fine for your 120 pf game

Using Berrys 158g loaded to 1.525" out of a 4" 357

3.3 VVN310 avg 803 fps

4.4 Clays avg 803 fps

4.2 Titegroup avg 809 fps

6.1 HS6 avg 802 fps

4.3 Bullseye avg 805 fps

Again DON'T USE THESE LOADS IN A 38 SPL only a 357.

Do any and everyone a favor that might come across your loads and don't make any major PF ammo using 38 spl cases.
Thanks for the help, and just so you know I am not going to go and blow me and my gun up the S&W627pc is chambered for 357 mag (8 shot). But now with all that being said why couldn't I just shoot the 38+p or 357 mag ammo to make major PF??? That would seem to solve my issue, the only new issue being the longer casings would make reloads slower and more difficult. But I don't shoot the revolver that much yet anyway so its not like I am going to notice if my reloads take another 1/2 second. What do you guys think about that? Good or bad idea?
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:52   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike g35 View Post
Thanks for the help, and just so you know I am not going to go and blow me and my gun up the S&W627pc is chambered for 357 mag (8 shot). But now with all that being said why couldn't I just shoot the 38+p or 357 mag ammo to make major PF??? That would seem to solve my issue, the only new issue being the longer casings would make reloads slower and more difficult. But I don't shoot the revolver that much yet anyway so its not like I am going to notice if my reloads take another 1/2 second. What do you guys think about that? Good or bad idea?
You can safely get to major w/ a 158gr bullet & slow powders in the 38sp & 5" bbl. You need 1050fps, depending on your gun, pushing max charges of 2400 will get you there & the only downside will be very short brass life. The load will be +P & a bit more, but the 357mag will easily handle that. GO with a 158grLRNFP & work up to 9.5gr of 2400, a chronograph is mandatory for this. You can probably do it w/ Unique as well, but you'll be pushing hard.
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Last edited by fredj338; 11-13-2011 at 11:54..
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Old 11-13-2011, 17:40   #13
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You can get to major pretty easy with a 158. I have a few "open" pistols that I make major with 115 grain bullets in 9mm at over 1450 fps (but I don't post those loads).

As for factory 38 making minor, IDPA took the floor down for SSR as many factory loads didn't make the old 125 floor.

Last edited by jmorris; 11-13-2011 at 17:41..
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Old 11-14-2011, 19:08   #14
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You can easily make major with that gun. As Fred says work up a .38 load with 2400 or another slow burning mag powder. Or just shoot .357 mags, it will all cost the same if your reloading. Reload time shouldn't be any different if you practice.
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Old 11-14-2011, 20:10   #15
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Heavy bullets and slow powders is the way to go. You can use 38 special brass to get there. Start with the 158s and go heavier from there. I tried it with lighter bullets and it was miserable from a non-comped revo.
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Old 11-15-2011, 18:16   #16
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Keep in mind that the brass may be tough to eject once you get up to major. This could present an issue during a match when, under the pressure of the clock, you whack the ejector and put it through your hand. I'm the local ICORE match director and had this happen at the last match.

There is a reason that they make moon clip guns; much easier to make major with .38 super, .40/10, or .45.
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Old 11-15-2011, 20:50   #17
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Heavy bullets and slow powders. Got it. Now one more question, how do I know which powders burn fast and which powders burn slow? Is their a book or something that tells me all this?
I have a Nosler reloading manual and all it tells me is how much to start with and what the max is. Where does all this other data come from?
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Old 11-15-2011, 21:54   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike g35 View Post
How do I know which powders burn fast and which powders burn slow?
http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html
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Old 11-15-2011, 23:57   #19
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Blue Dot, #7, Longshot are the start of "slower" powders and stops at Lil Gun, H110/W296.
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:21   #20
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Avoid blue dot. I have seen more pistols damaged by Blue Dot than any other powder. Wicked pressure spikes.
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