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Old Yesterday, 13:50   #1
just for fun
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reloading data old VS new

When I started reloading, the industry was geared toward revolvers and rifles. All the monthly periodicals would post favorite “hunting” loads for both. As such, fast burning gun powder was “built” with revolvers in mind.
Could these powders be used for autos? Sure, I guess. There was a small group of guys that were shooting bull’s eye targets and they used the 45APC and Bullseye powder. Then there was those guys that wanted to shoot they’re WII “bring backs” 9MM or something like that, they were using Unique, and the reloading world rocked on.
Then came the mid 70’s and every police department from Mayberry to NYC stated, “We need guns with more bullets”!!! Of course, the reloaders cried, “Me too!” With that, the number of rounds race was ON. The debate wasn’t who made the better gun, but which one held the most bullets.
Slowly revolvers became everybody’s ex-girlfriend. From my view point handgun reloading powder has done the same. All the newest ones (BP86, CEF, and AutoComp) promise “the world” if you ever happen to see any on the shelf. Reloading data is about non-existent for these newest powders and reloading data prior to 08 won’t list them!
Resently a young man posted what his latest Hornady book reflected as a mid-range load for HS-6 in a 357Sig round. My fourth addition Hornady book started 2 tenths under what he showed as max! He was loading a XTP 124 grain bullet to a COL of 1.060. My book didn’t list the XTP bullet but does show a FMJ-FP 124 at a COL of 1.050
Would someone post current data for 124 grain XTP bullet in 9MM round and COL from Hornady’s latest publication using HS-6? I fear my data is too old to be trustworthy (start 6.2 1025 FPS max6.9 1150 FPS) and most resent books won’t reflect latest powders!
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Old Yesterday, 14:18   #2
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Hornady 8th Ed. lumps all the 124 gr bullets together and the HS-6 range is 5.1 - 5.9 gr at 1.060" for the XTP (other bullets vary)

There is a 9th Ed. but I don't have it.

Richard
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Old Yesterday, 15:41   #3
just for fun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Hornady 8th Ed. lumps all the 124 gr bullets together and the HS-6 range is 5.1 - 5.9 gr at 1.060" for the XTP (other bullets vary)

There is a 9th Ed. but I don't have it.

Richard
thank you for your reply. I'll put a dozen of those (high end -10%) across the clocks and see what I've got compared to factory 1125 FPS. Adjust accordingly!
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Old Yesterday, 18:58   #4
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I like the old books better.
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Old Yesterday, 21:04   #5
btefft
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I stopped using Lyman 49, in favor of my old Lyman 48 reloading manual. Seems like 49 is too conservative.
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Old Yesterday, 21:15   #6
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Originally Posted by btefft View Post
I stopped using Lyman 49, in favor of my old Lyman 48 reloading manual. Seems like 49 is too conservative.
It's all I have. Pisses me off there is no data on the .458 Socom.
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Old Yesterday, 21:18   #7
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Originally Posted by Angry Fist View Post
It's all I have. Pisses me off there is no data on the .458 Socom.
I combine several manuals to come up with my reloading recipes. I like to look at Hornady, Speer, Sierra, Nosler and Lyman.
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Old Yesterday, 21:47   #8
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I like the old books better.
LMAO! Me too on that brother! Have become overly cautious with age! Could care less about the gun, sorta ruined a S&W model 14 with a 6inch barrel awhile back burning HS-6.The more I added the tighter the groups were getting! A somewhat over max. load bulged one cylinder. So hit it with a grinder, while I was at it I ground off the rim on a 38 case, wedged that case into the trashed cylinder and for now it's a 5 shooter. It's also on my bucket list of thing to fix right "one of these days"
As for the 9MM, guns are cheap, now its my hands I'm thinking about. I'll get the speed, but I sure do want to check out this new data first, and go from there. It would be a cakewalk with blue dot but used all of that up in 357Sig rounds. It's all just clean good fun!
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Old Yesterday, 23:28   #9
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I too have jugged a cylinder on a revolver, but it wasn't from loading too much powder from an old load guide recipe. It was solely my fault when shooting a faster powder and misreading the scale. The gun shot fine in all six cylinders accuracy wise after bulging that chamber, but that one case just would never eject. It was funny, when I shot that round I knew something was haywire, the gun kind of shivered in my hand, I knew I had dodged a bullet when I saw the top strap still in place. I pulled the rest of those loads and discovered my mistake.

My opinion is using any load from an older book won't break a gun outright, perhaps notwithstanding some of the early VV books, that were I think just plain wrong. The wear and tear will no doubt be more when you really are pushing it over later editions, but I think the kaboom or even jugged cylinder risk is very low (pretty big margin, even back when people were expected to be grown ups).

Some fun, any which way you go.
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Old Today, 04:25   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Hornady 8th Ed. lumps all the 124 gr bullets together and the HS-6 range is 5.1 - 5.9 gr at 1.060" for the XTP (other bullets vary)

There is a 9th Ed. but I don't have it.

Richard
Hornaday's 9th. lists exactly the same information Richard posted above.
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Old Today, 06:44   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just for fun View Post
LMAO! Me too on that brother! Have become overly cautious with age! Could care less about the gun, sorta ruined a S&W model 14 with a 6inch barrel awhile back burning HS-6.The more I added the tighter the groups were getting! A somewhat over max. load bulged one cylinder. So hit it with a grinder, while I was at it I ground off the rim on a 38 case, wedged that case into the trashed cylinder and for now it's a 5 shooter. It's also on my bucket list of thing to fix right "one of these days"
As for the 9MM, guns are cheap, now its my hands I'm thinking about. I'll get the speed, but I sure do want to check out this new data first, and go from there. It would be a cakewalk with blue dot but used all of that up in 357Sig rounds. It's all just clean good fun!
Sorry to hear about your cylinder, it should not be hard
to find one.

People say all the time they get better accuracy at the low
pressures, I find many loads are better on the warm side.

We only buy 357s that are able to handle the warm loads,
we have nineteen 357s, don't buy 38sp and not all 357s are
the same strength, that's why the load data is weaker now.

18 of mine are SS Rugers, the strongest one is a RH with a
7.5'' barrel, I love my Rugers.

Last edited by happie2shoot; Today at 06:48..
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Old Today, 06:53   #12
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OP, I hope you aren't trusting my typing. You really should get a copy of the most recent manual. I'm really old and my typing is less than optimal. My eyesight isn't much either.

Basically, you are trusting that I read the data for the proper round, that I read the load correctly and typed what was in the manual. I wouldn't do that!

Richard
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Old Today, 07:58   #13
Jim Watson
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Lyman 49 shows 6.6 gr HS 6 + 124 gr 9mm P and Speer 12 has 6.7. Unfortunately not with Hornady bullets, which seems a big consideration on the internet.
Ken Waters loaded even hotter but he didn't have a pressure gun.
6.2 gr HS6 124 gr RP 9mm was factory equivalent in MY gun, a Springfield 1911oid; 1055 fps.

I don't know why Hornady has backed down. Maybe it is the short OAL for their conical bullet.
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Old Today, 10:29   #14
timmay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btefft View Post
I combine several manuals to come up with my reloading recipes. I like to look at Hornady, Speer, Sierra, Nosler and Lyman.
Same here. The little single caliber "Complete Reloading Manuals" are great for that.
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Old Today, 10:55   #15
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Sometimes the powder manufacturer's web site has loads that are more aggressive than the bullet manufacturer's.

For the Sierra .308 175 gr BTHP, Sierra shows the load range of IMR 4895 to be 36.7 to 41.5gr

Hodgdon lists 41.0 to 45.0C (compressed) as suitable for that bullet.

Seems like quite a difference of opinion.

I have been loading 40.5 gr in an attempt to stay away from MAX according to Sierra. Heck, it's not even MIN at Hodgdon.

The 'standard' load for M1As is the 175 gr bullet with 41.5 gr IMR 4895 in a LC case. I had always been concerned that the folks were really talking about a commercial case and that I would be over the top with a LC. No such worries!

It also means that if a couple of tenths of a grain one way or the other don't make a difference in POI, there's no point in being overly concerned about using a volumetric measure. The load is nowhere near MAX - according to Hodgdon.

Richard
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