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Old 11-21-2011, 09:02   #1
Bilbo Bagins
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The Road EOTW Kit

OK so I'm bored in work, with the short holiday work week, its pretty dead in here. Let me throw something out there to get people thinking.

Think of an EOTW situation, similar to the movie, The Road. Say Yellowstone finally erupted, a sudden Ice Age is coming because of a astroid strike, or there was a major nuclear war. You Bugged in, weather the intial storm, but you come to the conclusion that your neighborhood, town, state, country is all uninhabitable, and you need to travel, say 2000 miles to an area where you can start a new life. For the record that can take anywhere from 3 to 6 months walking depending on your pace, and if you make stops.

What would you take on this journey?

So here are the rules;

Fuel has already been used up in your area, so no using a car, truck, motorcycle, plane. I would still look during your travels. You might find something along the way.

No Government, no LEO, no utilities, everything has shut down. the ETOW created a societal collapse.

Natural water sources are still available. Scavanging stores for food, and hunting is still possible, but supplies may be limited.

Vegetation is dying country wide and the reason why you cannot stay.

To make the Kit building simple, say you are traveling alone, or that everything you pick will apply to everyone in your group.

And most importantly, survivors you may run into might be desperate, and hungry, so at the very least you may run into some bad actors that will rob you blind, while others might just eat you.

Last edited by Bilbo Bagins; 11-21-2011 at 09:05..
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:37   #2
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Are wheelbarrows allowed?

This is a fun exercise - will have to think about it, and also think about how this would work with wife/6 y.o. daughter.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:37   #3
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I think to start I would use a bicycle. That is one thing I never understood with The Road, but I guess with the end of the world, you don't have enough time to teach you kid how to ride a bike.

Shelter definately a tarp & a bivvy bag, or just a light sleeping bag. I think tents or other shelter would stand out and be too heavy.

Tikka Headlamp
Fenix LD20 flashlight
Tea candle lamp for warmth, light, some cooking. Tea candle seem to be easy to find and plentiful.

100oz water bladder. Maybe another water container. Reusing a plastic water bottle will save weight.

MSR miniworks water filter

Snowpeak Ti mini cook set (pot and mug). Also my Ti spork.

I might take a lightweight alcohol stove and some fuel for discreet cooking, but most cooking will be done by campfire.

2 Bic Lighters & Light My Fire firesteel for backup.

Basic First Aid kit

Small pruning saw & Hatchet for processing wood. The hatchet will have other uses. Anything from a hammer, something to chop at wooden barriers while scavanging, and also as a last ditch weapon.

I probably missed some stuff, but let's get to the fun part.

I would take my AR and my Glock 19. I would also take both my CMMG and Advantage Arms .22 coversion kits for both. For the glock I would have 4 loaded mags of 9mm, and 3 mags of .22. For the AR I would have 7 mags of .223 and 3 mags of .22. I would also carry 200 rounds of .22 ammo. The hope is the centerfire ammo will be enought, and if not I can scavange along the way. the .22 can be used for small game hunting and as a last ditch, lightweight ammo option.

Ohh and a knife, Probably something like a Glock knife because its lightweight, that and my Leatherman wave.

Last edited by Bilbo Bagins; 11-21-2011 at 09:39..
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Old 11-21-2011, 17:29   #4
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I actually enjoy the “what-if” threads, even far-fetched ones; because they’re usually fun mind games if nothing else. Imo, this one is way up there in the ‘far-fetched’ category for me personally, as almost anywhere we go from here is going to have MORE people and threats, not less. But say we decided we had to make it to an ocean coast, maybe for long-term food reasons; only thing I can think of that would be any kind of “better” than where we are now if facing a full-on societal collapse.

There are four of us, at a minimum; that’s assuming no other family members come along. If no engine-powered vehicles are an option, then a mountain bicycle would seem to be about ideal first choice. If stuck genuinely “on foot”, I’d be sorely tempted by a garden cart:
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since it would be great for heavy things like water & bulky things as well, but using one would be terribly limiting as far as going over rough terrain or trying to move fast when it became necessary. And it would only take once for us to lose everything on that cart. So it seems like true “backpacking” would be the route to go.

Once that decision’s made, that means planning around that decision; trying to minimize weight, bulk, and complications. Since there are four of us (me, wife, two grown sons), that both complicates matters and helps matters both.

Water purifiers = katadyn Voyageur units with extra cartridges and water bladders for each of us. One pair boots, one pair shoes for each person. Extra boots would be better, but weigh more. Obviously, extra socks & underwear, outerwear, etc, almost goes without saying.

Fire/cooking, etc – butane lighters (we have hundreds), along with firesteels and magnesium/flint firestarters. Esbit stoves & tabs, as they offer minimal weight & also the ability to use all that dying vegetation as well. Food would be a bad challenge, that far on foot with no reliable re-supply, and would be a big part of kit. Wouldn’t be able to hump “3-6 months” worth, but as much as possible along with vitamin & mineral supplements (leg cramps on a long hike suck). A few fishing yo-yo’s if there’s any possibility of live fish left.

Now for the fun stuff…

Lights/vision/night-vision (popular topics lately) – I only have one semi-decent set, a Generation 2+ D300 with headgear. Additionally have several Gen-1 units that would go along as well. Several IR flashlights, but only one really good one, an ELR-VF. Normal (visible) lights would be minimal, small single-cell LED units that use cr123’s, and LED headlamps that run on AAA’s. Compact binoculars & large ones both. Golf scopes weigh virtually nothing, offer medium magnification and serve as rough rangefinders if you’re familiar with them.

Tools – I’m a big fan of nylon ty-wraps. They also weigh virtually nothing, are stronger than they should be, and hundreds can be carried at almost no cost in bulk or weight either one. Great for rigging shelter, securing a door, all kinds of things; only downside is they’re not reusable. Generic paracord & twine – several hundred feet, again, basically weightless and tons of uses. Leathermans and SOG seal pups for the wife & sons, and either leatherman and marbles ideal or the leatherman/trailmaster combo setup for me. Folding pruning saw is all kinds of handy as well, and is lighter & quieter than a hatchet or axe. Patch materials for the water bladders comes to mind. The TriSquare commercial radios from work, as they use a much-less common frequency range than FRS/GMRS, but at least one FRS/GMRS so we can listen to others who may be using them. Batteries, not an issue – we have as many as we’d care to carry. Maps, couple GPS units if they still work. N95 masks if not full-on respirators (remember, we have to carry all this junk…) I’m sure there are other tools that we’d take; at least start off with and possibly later discard, but can’t think of them offhand.

First aid – a whole category, but without detailing every single item here. Probably not much different, at least in the basics, as everyone’s first aid supplies.

Weapons – this would be hard, not due to “what can we take”, but due to “what can we realistically carry all day, every day”. First, glock 9mm’s all around; that’s a given. Suppressor for my glock, and suppressed .22 pistol as well with one of our sons – quietness can be a real virtue. Rifles would be a tough call since one of my sons is an AK guy, while the other one and I are both AR guys. Complicates things, but as he prefers the platform, it’s his gun, and he’s plenty big enough to handle the added weight of AK ammo & steel magazines, so he’d probably go with it. AR’s for my other son & me, and 9mm camp carbine for my wife. The camp carbine has a red dot along with a dbal clone with IR laser & floodlight, shares ammo with the glocks, and is threaded for the same suppressor as the glocks. Definitely at least one other handgun each for me & the boys, and likely a small pocket gun (lcp, P32, etc) for my wife.

I’d also want a couple books & a deck of cards, but obviously not a life-critical thing.

I'm sure there are numerous other things, even obvious ones, that I'm forgetting. In the real situation, there would be time - probably days - to think thru different options, while this is just off the cuff.
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Old 11-21-2011, 18:13   #5
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Tea candle lamp for warmth, light, some cooking. Tea candle seem to be easy to find and plentiful.
Waiting for the punchline here.

Warmth? you might burn your hand.
Light? Barely enough to read by.
Some cooking?

It would be a waste to try and warm a can of soup on.
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Old 11-21-2011, 18:16   #6
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The walking apocalypse party strategy

Ok so this is from the perspective of someone living on the eastern seaboard:
* All the wine and liquor I could carry by any means necessary incl. cart (we stock loads of liquor and wine). Let's just assume I find a cart or wagon
* CZ-75 9mm open carry
* A 12 ga. shotgun kept in the wagon
* a buck knife and a tactical fighting knife, concealed
* A first aid kit
* 3 days worth of high fat/carb snack food/jerkey
* A highly portable musical instrument or two (ukulele, harmonica, etc)
* One mug, one fork, one spoon, three shot glasses
* Pack of cards

The idea is that the alcohol would function mainly as currency or emergency sustenance and would facilitate the travel. As I travel I may cache a few bottles here and there as an insurance policy against being robbed. There's going to be huge demand for even just a shot or two, imagine what a bottle could buy you. You have to figure that most of the food within 4 days of walking will be horded and you will need to trade or barter for it. In the event that I get robbed or something I could try to charm them into letting me keep the musical instrument so at least I could have the possibility of coming back from losing everything else.

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Old 11-22-2011, 12:32   #7
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I will take a crack at this and probably mod it later.

I just recently drove a coworker from Milwaukee, WI to Seattle, WA...a total of 2063 miles. We drove the southern route of 94 west through Minnesota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and finally Washington. I have recent memory of what a 2,000 mile trip means....walking that would take easily six months.

BB, one thing you might want to add is when you actually leave. For example, leaving Wisconsin now will mean I will hit some mean weather.

A second would be where they are now...and where the potential landing zone would be.

All the posts right now are talking gear...if there is one thing The Road taught me...

A spare pair of boots might be the single most important thing you bring. You can skin animals for clothes..and people have walked without shoes for thousands of years....most people on this board (including me) aren't those people. Remember the Road and the house full of cannibals...what was in their living room? Yep, a big pile of shoes and boots.

People talking stoves? I recently took a 100 mile hike...those stoves you want to take on this 2,000 mile trek would be dumped inside your first 100. Planning a trek of this nature involves weight, versatility and duplication.
Books, ARs, shotguns, ammo, batteries, radios? Believe me, I understand the need. I don't think a lot of people realize how hard a trek of this nature would be considering the situation depicted. Unless you are Eli...taking 1-2#s worth of books 2,000 miles on foot is nothing more than tinder.

I will come back to this later, on a mental break from work right now.
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Old 11-22-2011, 13:29   #8
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...People talking stoves? I recently took a 100 mile hike...those stoves you want to take on this 2,000 mile trek would be dumped inside your first 100...
In regards to the esbit stove I mentioned, it's three ounces, and can use either the esbit tabs or the dying/dead vegetation that we're walking thru. Even if carrying prepackaged fuel tabs, one pound of total weight includes the stove and enough fuel to cook 26 meals; two meals per day for nearly two weeks. Stove & fuel for half a month's cooking is definitely worth a pound of weight to me personally. Say we skip the fuel altogether since the scenario includes access to all the fuel we'd need along the way; surely a tool that allows a platform for cooking all our meals is worth (less than) a fourth of a pound...?

Some of the stuff you mention (too many batteries, etc), we'd likely take too much & later discard as I mentioned. Wasteful, but I've really no problem with that approach to some degree. Since it would only be post-departure that we'd truly know what we'd use & not use (at least on the oddball stuff like radios & some tools), I think it's a good idea to start off with more than thought necessary and dump the excess when it becomes a burden or when it's obvious it won't be needed. We can always dump (or trade) that ~3ounce 12pack of lithium AAA's whenever it becomes a good idea; we may not be able to find a 12pack of AAA's whenever we think it's a good idea.

Not disagreeing with you in concept or principle at all - weight is a huge consideration when humping gear; much more than people allow for. I also acknowledge that I'm not as young as I once was, and limit my campouts to no longer than three days now. But in our case when it comes to how much is realistic, there are four of us to hump it, including two freakishly large males, and a third male who's only "extra large", at least yet. My 5'9" wife has been the "little one" in the family for a number of years now.
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Old 11-22-2011, 13:59   #9
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@OP - Great post! Here's where my train of thought takes me:

Water
o Water carry/storage at 2-3 liters or about 2 gallons via refillable nalgene or bags (H2O = 15ish lbs or 7.75lbs per/gal)
Food
o As far as the actual movement, the final answer would more or less come down to calories and recovery. Configure your load however you want, but 1200-1500 calories a day is low-balling what you need. Pending your skills at scavenging, having 2 months or 1/3 - 1/2 of the trip on your back is a safe bet with a scary fork in the road if conditions didn't improve. Peanut Butter, rice, dried fruit (Food = 30ish lbs)
Gear
o Poncho w/ bungee chords, Puss-pad (mat), bivy/small sleeping bag, three changes of clothes and double that in socks inside stuff sack. Fire making materials if possible, maybe a small flashlight/headlamp with no more than 2 battery changes. Minimal FAK/Trauma kit, soap.(Gear = 15lbs max)
Firearms/Ammo
o G19 or G21 loaded on person, with 5 x mags and maybe 1 x 50rnd Box in bag.
o AR with no furniture. Upper/Lower dissasembled and 7 x mags loaded in bag.
(Firearms = 18-20ish lbs)

Gear Total = 80lbs(ish)

Movement Plan
o 5 mile movement, 30 min rest, 3-4 times a day
o weight reduction through supply consumption at 1-2% day until pack is at 55ish lbs
o @15 miles a day, 2k miles would take 133 days
o Very possible, have completed something close, but FML...the pastures better be GREEN when I get there lol
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Old 11-22-2011, 15:37   #10
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If I were alone especially I would find a good mountain bike. It would cut the travel time by 4 or 5x and provide a means to get away from various zombies encountered along the way. Yes it may reduce your carry load a bit but you can't carry everything you will need anyway. If you have a trailer you will actually be able to carry MORE. Getting to your destination fastest is the most important priority.

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Old 11-23-2011, 06:50   #11
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Check out the "Mormon Hand Cart Companies". Yes this happened in the mid-1800's and I think they only had to travel 1300 miles but it might be interesting to see how they did it.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:20   #12
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Hmmm...lots of folks seem to think they can carry a lot of gear. Over that distance a heavy pack will do more damage than good.

For that distance I would definitely find a cart that I could pull behind my Mtn. bike. With that capability you could travel much faster and carry more.

However, if I were backpacking then these are the needs I would have to fulfill:

Fire Making (warmth, cooking, sanitizing)
Shelter (tarp or something similar with some paracord and a wool blanket)
Protection (at MOST a pistol and rifle, not much ammo...too heavy)
Map/Compass (doesn't do you much good to wander in circles)
Water Purification/containers (tablets, small filter, fire, 120 oz min.)
Food (can't carry much so take only dense, calorie filled food)
Footwear (most important item, solid boots in good condition, multi-socks)
Small cook pan/pot with very limited utensils
Knife (one solid knife and possibly a multitool)
Med Kit (very small, just basics. Mole skin!)
Clothes (multi-socks/underwear, 1 change of outer clothes)
Walking stick (tons of uses)

I would try to keep my packs as light as possible. No duplicates, no extra shoes and no excessive ammo. When hiking that far 1 oz = 100 lbs by day 3 or 4. The ability to move quickly and efficiently and not be encumbered by 100 lbs of gear is essential.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:38   #13
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For this kind of scenario I'd be wanting a horse, preferably two. You'll move quicker and won't be as tired at the end of the day.

Bikes and carts can break down. So can horses of course, but on a journey like this they can go over country no bike or cart can navigate. Plus they are good company.

I don't think I'd even bother with a pistol. Instead I would take a fairly large fixed blade, most likely a Bowie. I'd take my BLR and a fair amount of ammunition, but I'd plan on reloading with a hand press. If I were really planning for this I'd get a bullet mold.

Then a basic first aid kit with blood clotting agent added, some simple tools for making repairs and food and water. A Tarp for shelter, several means of making fire, and some oats for the horses. Oh and rope, can't forget rope.

Only problem with this is I don't own a horse
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:46   #14
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Check out the "Mormon Hand Cart Companies". Yes this happened in the mid-1800's and I think they only had to travel 1300 miles but it might be interesting to see how they did it.
Mormons here in Utah re-enact this every year with a 100 mile trek over ten days using hand carts. I've known several co-workers who have gone on these re-enactments. They've all said they don't know how their ancestors did it. They all would come back totally exhausted.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:09   #15
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Quote:
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Check out the "Mormon Hand Cart Companies". Yes this happened in the mid-1800's and I think they only had to travel 1300 miles but it might be interesting to see how they did it.
From what i've read. the Mormon Church set up rest and supply stations every so many miles, ( i dont know the distance) to
support Mormon's immigrating to Utah.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:11   #16
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For this kind of scenario I'd be wanting a horse, preferably two. You'll move quicker and won't be as tired at the end of the day.

Bikes and carts can break down. So can horses of course, but on a journey like this they can go over country no bike or cart can navigate. Plus they are good company.

I don't think I'd even bother with a pistol. Instead I would take a fairly large fixed blade, most likely a Bowie. I'd take my BLR and a fair amount of ammunition, but I'd plan on reloading with a hand press. If I were really planning for this I'd get a bullet mold.

Then a basic first aid kit with blood clotting agent added, some simple tools for making repairs and food and water. A Tarp for shelter, several means of making fire, and some oats for the horses. Oh and rope, can't forget rope.

Only problem with this is I don't own a horse
You forgot to mention horses can be eaten if the need arises.
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Old 11-23-2011, 13:04   #17
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A horse would be a good option, provided you can actually get one and have some experience with them. The last thing you need is to get thrown off or fall off and break bones.

Bikes are pretty dang reliable. Carry some spare tubes and patch kits.

A dirt bike would go a heck of a long way if you can carry some spare fuel.

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Old 11-23-2011, 13:44   #18
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Waiting for the punchline here.

Warmth? you might burn your hand.
Light? Barely enough to read by.
Some cooking?

It would be a waste to try and warm a can of soup on.
I thought the same thing, until an AT thru hiker turned me on to them.

http://www.rei.com/product/820304/uc...candle-lantern

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For $12 and 4oz of pack weight, its a handy tool. Is it as good as gas stove or a campfire? No, but it will melt a cup of snow, or boil a cup of water in 30 minutes. If you run one in a 1 or 2 man tent, it will raise the temp inside the tent, by a few degrees.

It not tons of light but just enough.
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Old 11-23-2011, 13:45   #19
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The thought of having to trek over a 1000 miles just depresses the s3$% out of me.

Pulling carts? 50+ pounds on your back? Think of your aching back and feet.

Man, it will have to be EPIC to make me leave without an internal combustion engine.

Even with radiation, I do have a basement….argh….
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Old 11-23-2011, 18:39   #20
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I think for such a situation a good stainless steel .22 rifle such as the Marlin or Ruger for food gathering, dealing with stray dogs. A good Bowie type knife, a single blade axe and folding shovel. A pair of tarps, paracord and a pair of wool blankets. Good footwear is a must and a basic first aid kit. Don't forget a pot, a skillet and a few items like forks, etc. A stainless Sierra cup and a flint/steel match. A basic sewing kit with a handful of hooks, sinkers, etc to maybe fish for the evening meal if the opportunity comes up. I like the walking stick for each person, and a fish spear head to attach to one end of one for frogs, fish, and defense if needed. I am a revolver fan, like .38/.357 but ammo and weight is a issue to consider. I also think of a pair of mules, one to ride, one for pack, or pull a small cart if u can find one made well enough. Think of a way to "Pack water" and a wagon with a barrel of water and a food box could be worth the effort. Maybe even a lighweight hammock tied to trees/the wagon could be considered. A straw hat for summer heat and a warm hat for winter with consideration of the weather where you will be going. AND a Holy Bible, gotta have faith. IF on foot, most people are screwed. Same for the bicycle. If I had to try I would grab one compact tarp, one light wool blanket, my .22 S&W snub revolver and 500 rds of ammo and one of my large knives and my gerber multiplier and small first aid kit I carry hunting with firestarter. And my water bladder/canteen and hope i can scrounge for food. Hat would be one ball cap and a hooded jacket all in a light pack. With a compact Gideon size Bible. A small pack of salt and 35 mm film canister of fishing gear and paracord...And hope it never happens, my sick wife could never make it.
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Old 11-23-2011, 20:49   #21
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You forgot to mention horses can be eaten if the need arises.
True...as a last resort. I'm rather fond of horses. It wouldn't be an easy thing to do, but if it became necessary.
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Old 11-24-2011, 01:41   #22
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If i were to have to leave, I'd also likely use the horses, with carts. I'd keep body-carried loads to 20# or so, in the event you get separated from your horses/carts still have basic gear to sustain you and allow you to reacquire your stuff. Putting it all in the cart leaves you stupidly vulnerable, as we saw in the movie.

I'm not dicking around. I am also NOT in a hurry. A modern version of a Gypsy/sheepherders cart- lighter weight, better construction, ballistic protection in spots, Sheet wood stove inside, 2" foam insulation.steel roof. Solar panels.If you ever get to see an original at an agricultural fair, check it out, they had reasonably comfortable nomadic living pretty well established. We just have to rethink how we live.
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Old 11-24-2011, 02:47   #23
Maine1
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OK, this got me to thinking. For about 1K you can get a set of good used running gear from a forage box, hay wagon, ect.

With say, another $500 or so in lumber and insulation, one could have a pretty groovy little shelter that is MUCH better than a tin tepee, heated by wood, and rigged to be towed by vehicle- keeping it light to as allow a car to do so- or animals.

I might have to fool with this idea. In my area, i could find running gear cheap, and I have some pine that i could have cut to boards and dimensional. This could be fun.
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Old 11-24-2011, 03:02   #24
lawman800
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Lots of ammo and a bivouac. Lay ambush on a bottleneck where other travelers will pass. Eat travelers. Live forever.
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Old 11-24-2011, 06:29   #25
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
A horse would be a good option,
Unless you had the horse before everything started the chances of finding a horse is slim.

If other people had them on their ranch and the people were dead who would have kept the horses alive until you arrived.

Keeping a horse alive and healthy while with you takes some knowledge and their physical needs that you would need adds to the weight of your cart.
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Last edited by Dexters; 11-24-2011 at 06:30..
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