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Old 11-21-2011, 16:11   #1
ronduke
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P D encrypting radio traffic as scanner technology proliferates.

Police departments around the country are working to shield their radio communications from the public as cheap, user-friendly technology has made it easy for anyone to use handheld devices to keep tabs on officers responding to crimes.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/t...oliferates.ece


Here is an example where a citizen with a scanner was a huge help to law enforcement.
http://www.kltv.com/story/4675032/de...edirected=true
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Old 11-21-2011, 16:22   #2
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All of our radio traffic should be encrypted at all times. There is no valid reason to have it available for anyone to listen to.
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Old 11-21-2011, 16:38   #3
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Iphone even has some apps now you can get to monitor police channels. Can you imagine - bad guy is on a traffic stop so they download the app and start listening to the channel of the agency who has them stopped. Find out they have a suspended license or warrant and decide to flee. Or hears officer calling for a K-9 car and they know they have a load of dope. No, thanks.

I even think FOIA should be more restricted with access. There's no reason that if you get arrested and your nosey neighbor wants to do a FOIA request, he should be able to get access to all of the reports relating to your home for the last 30 years. Citizens should have some sort of privacy and confidence they can speak with the police and it not become public knowledge. It's ridiculous.

We are opening up way too much information to be used by criminals to help prevent apprehension or used to attack officers. People can FOIA training records and pamphlets, tactical training information, etc.
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Old 11-21-2011, 17:34   #4
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On our countywide system only the two operations talkgroups are unencrypted. The information talkgroup and all of the tactical ("event") talkgroups are encypted. That decision was made consciously to try and limit FOIA requests by providing some traffic over the air. There are also some limited reliability issues with encryption where we will occasionally have transmissions either fail to encrypt or fail to decrypt and come across as a garbled mess. Few and far between, but worth considering
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Old 11-21-2011, 19:50   #5
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I am shocked that people don't want it to be scrambled. Names, dobs, DL, address, phone number all being broadcast to every clown in the county with a scanner.
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Old 11-21-2011, 21:00   #6
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Quote:
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I am shocked that people don't want it to be scrambled. Names, dobs, DL, address, phone number all being broadcast to every clown in the county with a scanner.
I'm one of those clowns.

If I'm not mistaken, in 1934 congress made the air waves PUBLIC.

Last edited by Big House; 11-21-2011 at 21:04..
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Old 11-21-2011, 21:22   #7
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DC is doing this now.

The news media are screaming because they use scanners in the newsroom.
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Old 11-21-2011, 22:17   #8
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I'm one of those clowns.

If I'm not mistaken, in 1934 congress made the air waves PUBLIC.
Since it is public you can broadcast on my channel?
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Old 11-21-2011, 22:21   #9
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We are using encrypted 800 mhz.
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Old 11-21-2011, 22:23   #10
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Since it is public you can broadcast on my channel?

The USSC has ruled that citizens have the right to monitor to public safety radio broadcasts. The analogy is not quite there.

It is a moot point for many, since MDT/MDC traffic handles most personal information transfers.
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Old 11-21-2011, 22:28   #11
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The USSC has ruled that citizens have the right to monitor to public safety radio broadcasts. The analogy is not quite there.

It is a moot point for many, since MDT/MDC traffic handles most personal information transfers.
This is true but they haven't specified what kinds and how often they have the right to monitor.
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Old 11-21-2011, 22:39   #12
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Originally Posted by Sharky7 View Post
Iphone even has some apps now you can get to monitor police channels. Can you imagine - bad guy is on a traffic stop so they download the app and start listening to the channel of the agency who has them stopped. Find out they have a suspended license or warrant and decide to flee. Or hears officer calling for a K-9 car and they know they have a load of dope. No, thanks.
As I understand it, both the iPhone and Android apps have a built in delay of at least a minute to prevent that exact thing. If it's true, that's one bit of clarity I didn't honestly see coming out of the tech.

It always made me laugh hearing a DPD unit come over the air and say "XXX to radio, take us out of repeat for zone clearance," and then you'd only hear the dispatcher talking for a minute. Weird!
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Old 11-21-2011, 22:45   #13
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This is true but they haven't specified what kinds and how often they have the right to monitor.
Actually, they have. If it is broadcast on the public radio spectrum, other than cellular frequencies where individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy, it is fair game. This includes military, Federal, intelligence, and other broadcasts.

It is the responsibility of the agency to obscure their radio traffic if they expect confidentiality.

Look up the Federal Communications Act of 1934 and its amendments of 1996 and 2002.
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Old 11-21-2011, 22:54   #14
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Quote:
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Actually, they have. If it is broadcast on the public radio spectrum, other than cellular frequencies where individuals have a reasonable expectation of privacy, it is fair game. This includes military, Federal, intelligence, and other broadcasts.

It is the responsibility of the agency to obscure their radio traffic if they expect confidentiality.

Look up the Federal Communications Act of 1934 and its amendments of 1996 and 2002.
Interesting. Thanks for the information.
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Old 11-21-2011, 23:06   #15
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The USSC has ruled that citizens have the right to monitor to public safety radio broadcasts. The analogy is not quite there.

It is a moot point for many, since MDT/MDC traffic handles most personal information transfers.
We have MDTs and to be honest very little goes over that. Mostly because we are rarely near our MDTs and even if we are it isn't safe to be gawking at it.

Also they have been hacked. There was a thread hear several years ago that a hacker group posted texts between officers in St. Louis IIRC. Some of it was pretty funny. I remember one said something like, "Hey, I saw you come in for work tonight. You looked pretty good in that T-shirt. Want to meet up after work?" Priceless.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:22   #16
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Be honest now. Are you really concerned about the privacy of the citizens information or the inappropriate comments about the hot blonde with the big boobs you just let slip out?
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:21   #17
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Be honest now. Are you really concerned about the privacy of the citizens information or the inappropriate comments about the hot blonde with the big boobs you just let slip out?
I don't know about your department, but around here, we don't make comments like that over the radio. And anyone who is smart doesn't write stuff like that on the MDC either, because it's pretty well-known that IA, the patrol lieutenants and the chief deputy review MDC messages at random to make sure policies are being followed.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:38   #18
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I don't know about your department, but around here, we don't make comments like that over the radio. And anyone who is smart doesn't write stuff like that on the MDC either, because it's pretty well-known that IA, the patrol lieutenants and the chief deputy review MDC messages at random to make sure policies are being followed.
Personally, I'd be more worried about the fact that (at least in MI), MDC messages can be FOIA'd for like, 7 years. I'd really hate for something stupid I said in 2004 to bite me on the keister...
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:42   #19
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I don't know about your department, but around here, we don't make comments like that over the radio. And anyone who is smart doesn't write stuff like that on the MDC either, because it's pretty well-known that IA, the patrol lieutenants and the chief deputy review MDC messages at random to make sure policies are being followed.
It is really funny when the not-so-smart still but no-no material out over the MDTs and get in trouble over it. Idiots.
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:55   #20
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The MDC is the same as in person: Everything is recorded, and before you write, say or do something, ask yourself if you would want it to be on CNN, Fox and YouTube tomorrow.
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