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Old 11-27-2011, 10:19   #1
federali
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HR 218 Exemption on Magazine Capacity?

With the most recent changes in HR 218, does anyone know if current/former LEOs are exempt from magazine capacity restrictions in the handfull of states restricting capacity to ten rounds?
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:23   #2
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They did not address the magazine capacity restriction.
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Old 11-27-2011, 12:24   #3
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^^^ The recent changes did not address ammo capacity. It only addressed ammo restrictions (ie: N.J.'s "no hollow points") by removing that type of restriction.

I would imagine if you're still a working LEO, and you carried your duty gun/approved off-duty under LEOSA, capacity would not be an issue. If you're retired, then I don't know.
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Old 11-27-2011, 12:57   #4
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Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the magazine capacity is a non issue if you obtained them legally. Like you still have them after you retire! The issue on the magazine capacity is if you are obtaining them afterwords, like through the mail or from someone else!
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Old 11-27-2011, 13:00   #5
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I don't know. Should I carry my usual tool up to the northeast this summer I may go ahead and go by magazine restriction to help keep out of any trouble that could erupt from it, since I am pretty much on my own anyway for off duty purposes. In which case I may get myself a gun that carries bigger bullets.
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Old 11-27-2011, 14:10   #6
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Personally speaking, if you're an out of state LEO with valid creds, the last thing I'm going to worry about is your mag capacity or if you have hollowpoints.

That's just my opinion though.
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Old 11-27-2011, 15:34   #7
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^^^^^ Hopefully very true, however......until they addressed the hollowpoint ammo issue, we all "heard" about the numerous arrests that were made in NJ, but none ever seemed to make it to LEO web sites or publications!
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Old 11-27-2011, 16:59   #8
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Personally speaking, if you're an out of state LEO with valid creds, the last thing I'm going to worry about is your mag capacity or if you have hollowpoints.

That's just my opinion though.
Yes, this is how I would want it to work out in real life - especially for the retired LEOs. I was looking at it from what the black letter law actually said (or didn't say). I certainly don't want to be the test case.
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:38   #9
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Originally Posted by Trigger Finger View Post
Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the magazine capacity is a non issue if you obtained them legally. Like you still have them after you retire! The issue on the magazine capacity is if you are obtaining them afterwords, like through the mail or from someone else!
My understanding is that out of state LEO's on official duty is considered a CA peace officer while in state under our penal code so the same exemptions for large capacity feeding devices (our lingo for regular capacity magazine over 10 rounds) would apply to them as long as they are working.

Off-duty LEO's here on vacation or whatever who are carrying under LEOSA are not considered CA peace officers but rather, civilians who have carry privileges under federal law. As such, they would not be exempt from the law prohibiting the importation of large capacity feeding devices into this state, unless the magazine was already in the state prior to the ban.

There is some weird loophole about the magazine being in the state and then you move outside of the state and now you're coming back or something but I didn't read into it much.

As a practical matter, I wouldn't give a rat's arse if you are an off duty carrying under LEOSA and had a beta mag on your AR pistol which you concealed under your tank top and cargo shorts, but unfortunately, I can't speak for all of my brethren and some overzealous DA's who want to make a name for himself.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:20   #10
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^^^ The recent changes did not address ammo capacity. It only addressed ammo restrictions (ie: N.J.'s "no hollow points") by removing that type of restriction.

I would imagine if you're still a working LEO, and you carried your duty gun/approved off-duty under LEOSA, capacity would not be an issue. If you're retired, then I don't know.
Funny part is NJ retired Officers still can't carry hollowpoint in NJ as per the NJSP.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:24   #11
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Funny part is NJ retired Officers still can't carry hollowpoint in NJ as per the NJSP.
http://www.fop.net/legislative/issue...8/hr218faq.pdf

Page #3: S.1132

Quote:
Can I carry any type of firearm or ammunition under this law?

No. The exemption provided under this Federal law applies to the carriage of concealed firearms only. The definition of “firearm” in this statute specifically excludes machine guns, silencers, explosives or other destructive devices as these terms are defined in Federal law.
However, recent amendments to the Federal law do extend the exemption to allow the carriage of ammunition “not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act.” This means that qualified active and retired law enforcement officers may carry ammunition in States which may have prohibited the possession of certain ammunition by persons not actively serving in law enforcement within that State.
I just checked the NJSP website and apparently it hasn't been updated since 03/10 (for Retired PO carry permits) or to reflect the new changes......Go figure.....
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Old 11-28-2011, 13:23   #12
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Just attended a 4-hour seminar sponsored by Sheepdog Academy (http://hr218leosa.com/?page=home) on LEOSA. Magazine restrictions do apply to off-duty carry under LEOSA. Steve Mannion, Esq., in fact listed the usual suspect States that magazine restrictions apply. This was a seminar intended for LEO's, active and retired.
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Old 11-28-2011, 15:34   #13
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LEOSA's black letter law doesn't address this ammo limit restriction. AFAIK, no case law is relevant on this point. So, unfortunitely, Mr. Mannion's legal opinion seems to be on point.

How many states have ammo limit restriction? CA and NY. Who else?
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Old 11-28-2011, 15:50   #14
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carry you duty gun, as in issued by the department. if youre challenged in a commie state about its magazine capasity what can they do under leosa? arrest you? seize your duty gun and let the attorney generals fight it out? would be an interesting test case and id like to see a jury's decision on it, not a judge's.
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Old 11-28-2011, 16:18   #15
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^^^ That's why I don't see this as an issue for off-duty LEOs carrying in those states.

For the retired LEOs, I'd like to see black letter law allowing them to carry mags they were issued as LEOs. Or at least, (requiring them to meet the shooting qualifications of the state where they reside) allowing them to use the same mag capacity as that of their resident state's LE.
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Old 11-29-2011, 00:26   #16
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carry you duty gun, as in issued by the department. if youre challenged in a commie state about its magazine capasity what can they do under leosa? arrest you? seize your duty gun and let the attorney generals fight it out? would be an interesting test case and id like to see a jury's decision on it, not a judge's.
Many County Prosecutors in NJ forbid Officers from taking their dept issued weapons out of state. Liability reasons they say.
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Old 11-29-2011, 00:30   #17
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http://www.fop.net/legislative/issue...8/hr218faq.pdf

Page #3: S.1132



I just checked the NJSP website and apparently it hasn't been updated since 03/10 (for Retired PO carry permits) or to reflect the new changes......Go figure.....
From what I've heard recently on this, the prohibition still applies to NJ retirees. They recommend either critical defense, power balls or EFMJs to circumvent the stupidity of NJ. Also permits for retired carry in NJ are backed up at least 6 months. Almost seems like they don't even want retired cops carrying here.
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Old 11-29-2011, 00:54   #18
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Sounds about right for Jersey. Wonder how CA is implementing their retiree CCW's for those agencies which are dicking their own people around.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:42   #19
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From what I've heard recently on this, the prohibition still applies to NJ retirees. They recommend either critical defense, power balls or EFMJs to circumvent the stupidity of NJ. Also permits for retired carry in NJ are backed up at least 6 months. Almost seems like they don't even want retired cops carrying here.
I'm not sure just how many Troopers are assigned to the RPO Permit Unit. Maybe 4949 can chime in on this one....
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:38   #20
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carry you duty gun, as in issued by the department. if youre challenged in a commie state about its magazine capasity what can they do under leosa? arrest you? seize your duty gun and let the attorney generals fight it out? would be an interesting test case and id like to see a jury's decision on it, not a judge's.
Carrying the department issued duty gun while off duty is actually prohibited by more agencies than you would think.
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