Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
 |
|
11-27-2011, 09:19
|
#1
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oceanside, NY, USA
Posts: 1,317
|
HR 218 Exemption on Magazine Capacity?
With the most recent changes in HR 218, does anyone know if current/former LEOs are exempt from magazine capacity restrictions in the handfull of states restricting capacity to ten rounds?
__________________
Glock 19, 34. Browning HP, S&W 65-3", 1911, M&P .45, Kahr P9, Int'l Assoc. of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors, NRA, Certified Armorer: Glock, SIG, S&W,
Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean it's true: Abraham Lincoln
|
|
|
|
11-27-2011, 10:23
|
#2
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,184
|
They did not address the magazine capacity restriction.
__________________
"The Marines I have seen around the world have, the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps. Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945"
|
|
|
|
|
11-27-2011, 11:24
|
#3
|
|
Florist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merryweather
Posts: 9,361
|
^^^ The recent changes did not address ammo capacity. It only addressed ammo restrictions (ie: N.J.'s "no hollow points") by removing that type of restriction.
I would imagine if you're still a working LEO, and you carried your duty gun/approved off-duty under LEOSA, capacity would not be an issue. If you're retired, then I don't know.
__________________
There are at least two sides to every story. I just heard yours and, indeed, you appear to be the victim. But I can't stop wondering what the other side has to say. :dunno:
In a gun fight, even doing everything right can still get you killed.
Last edited by Patchman; 11-27-2011 at 11:28..
|
|
|
|
|
11-27-2011, 11:57
|
#4
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northern California
Posts: 1,833
|
Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the magazine capacity is a non issue if you obtained them legally. Like you still have them after you retire! The issue on the magazine capacity is if you are obtaining them afterwords, like through the mail or from someone else! 
__________________
Land of the Free Because of the Brave!
It is easier to be critical than correct and most people tend to take the easy way!
|
|
|
|
|
11-27-2011, 12:00
|
#5
|
|
Gold Membership
Crazy CO
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas, near the bison.
Posts: 22,810
|
I don't know. Should I carry my usual tool up to the northeast this summer I may go ahead and go by magazine restriction to help keep out of any trouble that could erupt from it, since I am pretty much on my own anyway for off duty purposes. In which case I may get myself a gun that carries bigger bullets.
__________________
Arming with truth defeats ignorance. Jesus said, "I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6
"Opinions expressed in this article are those of the author
and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the Federal
Bureau of Prisons or the Department of Justice."
In God we trust, all others we monitor.
|
|
|
|
|
11-27-2011, 13:10
|
#6
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Garden State
Posts: 1,112
|
Personally speaking, if you're an out of state LEO with valid creds, the last thing I'm going to worry about is your mag capacity or if you have hollowpoints.
That's just my opinion though.
|
|
|
|
|
11-27-2011, 14:34
|
#7
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,184
|
^^^^^ Hopefully very true, however......until they addressed the hollowpoint ammo issue, we all "heard" about the numerous arrests that were made in NJ, but none ever seemed to make it to LEO web sites or publications!
__________________
"The Marines I have seen around the world have, the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps. Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945"
|
|
|
|
|
11-27-2011, 15:59
|
#8
|
|
Florist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merryweather
Posts: 9,361
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer X
Personally speaking, if you're an out of state LEO with valid creds, the last thing I'm going to worry about is your mag capacity or if you have hollowpoints.
That's just my opinion though.
|
Yes, this is how I would want it to work out in real life - especially for the retired LEOs. I was looking at it from what the black letter law actually said (or didn't say). I certainly don't want to be the test case.
__________________
There are at least two sides to every story. I just heard yours and, indeed, you appear to be the victim. But I can't stop wondering what the other side has to say. :dunno:
In a gun fight, even doing everything right can still get you killed.
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 00:38
|
#9
|
|
Juris Glocktor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 35,459
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger Finger
Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I think that the magazine capacity is a non issue if you obtained them legally. Like you still have them after you retire! The issue on the magazine capacity is if you are obtaining them afterwords, like through the mail or from someone else! |
My understanding is that out of state LEO's on official duty is considered a CA peace officer while in state under our penal code so the same exemptions for large capacity feeding devices (our lingo for regular capacity magazine over 10 rounds) would apply to them as long as they are working.
Off-duty LEO's here on vacation or whatever who are carrying under LEOSA are not considered CA peace officers but rather, civilians who have carry privileges under federal law. As such, they would not be exempt from the law prohibiting the importation of large capacity feeding devices into this state, unless the magazine was already in the state prior to the ban.
There is some weird loophole about the magazine being in the state and then you move outside of the state and now you're coming back or something but I didn't read into it much.
As a practical matter, I wouldn't give a rat's arse if you are an off duty carrying under LEOSA and had a beta mag on your AR pistol which you concealed under your tank top and cargo shorts, but unfortunately, I can't speak for all of my brethren and some overzealous DA's who want to make a name for himself.
__________________
Cool story, bro... when do you get to the part where you shut up and walk away from me?
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 09:20
|
#10
|
|
The Anti-Glock
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,590
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman
^^^ The recent changes did not address ammo capacity. It only addressed ammo restrictions (ie: N.J.'s "no hollow points") by removing that type of restriction.
I would imagine if you're still a working LEO, and you carried your duty gun/approved off-duty under LEOSA, capacity would not be an issue. If you're retired, then I don't know.
|
Funny part is NJ retired Officers still can't carry hollowpoint in NJ as per the NJSP.
__________________
Sig P225/S&W 60, 66, M&P 45, M&P 9c, 1911SC/Glock G22 Gen4 & G36/Kimber Pro Tactical II/Ruger Mk II/H&K P30, 45c
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 11:24
|
#11
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,210
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsurfboard
Funny part is NJ retired Officers still can't carry hollowpoint in NJ as per the NJSP.
|
http://www.fop.net/legislative/issue...8/hr218faq.pdf
Page #3: S.1132
Quote:
Can I carry any type of firearm or ammunition under this law?
No. The exemption provided under this Federal law applies to the carriage of concealed firearms only. The definition of “firearm” in this statute specifically excludes machine guns, silencers, explosives or other destructive devices as these terms are defined in Federal law.
However, recent amendments to the Federal law do extend the exemption to allow the carriage of ammunition “not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act.” This means that qualified active and retired law enforcement officers may carry ammunition in States which may have prohibited the possession of certain ammunition by persons not actively serving in law enforcement within that State.
|
I just checked the NJSP website and apparently it hasn't been updated since 03/10 (for Retired PO carry permits) or to reflect the new changes......Go figure.....
__________________
"A man's got to know his limitations."-Harry Callahan
"Nearly all men can stand adversity. But if you want to test a man's character - give him power"-Abraham Lincoln
“...Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing”
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 12:23
|
#12
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 231
|
Just attended a 4-hour seminar sponsored by Sheepdog Academy ( http://hr218leosa.com/?page=home) on LEOSA. Magazine restrictions do apply to off-duty carry under LEOSA. Steve Mannion, Esq., in fact listed the usual suspect States that magazine restrictions apply. This was a seminar intended for LEO's, active and retired.
__________________
NRA Patron Member
You're right, Mr President. Central PA does love their guns and religion.
Last edited by Sippo; 11-28-2011 at 12:26..
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 14:34
|
#13
|
|
Florist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merryweather
Posts: 9,361
|
LEOSA's black letter law doesn't address this ammo limit restriction. AFAIK, no case law is relevant on this point. So, unfortunitely, Mr. Mannion's legal opinion seems to be on point.
How many states have ammo limit restriction? CA and NY. Who else?
__________________
There are at least two sides to every story. I just heard yours and, indeed, you appear to be the victim. But I can't stop wondering what the other side has to say. :dunno:
In a gun fight, even doing everything right can still get you killed.
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 14:50
|
#14
|
|
you savvy?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: in a socialist nation
Posts: 17,651
|
carry you duty gun, as in issued by the department. if youre challenged in a commie state about its magazine capasity what can they do under leosa? arrest you? seize your duty gun and let the attorney generals fight it out? would be an interesting test case and id like to see a jury's decision on it, not a judge's.
__________________
wheres my free phone?
both Obama and the KKK want to disarm black folks.
www.silentscream.org
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 15:18
|
#15
|
|
Florist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Land of Flora, Fauna & Merryweather
Posts: 9,361
|
^^^ That's why I don't see this as an issue for off-duty LEOs carrying in those states.
For the retired LEOs, I'd like to see black letter law allowing them to carry mags they were issued as LEOs. Or at least, (requiring them to meet the shooting qualifications of the state where they reside) allowing them to use the same mag capacity as that of their resident state's LE.
__________________
There are at least two sides to every story. I just heard yours and, indeed, you appear to be the victim. But I can't stop wondering what the other side has to say. :dunno:
In a gun fight, even doing everything right can still get you killed.
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 23:26
|
#16
|
|
The Anti-Glock
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,590
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe
carry you duty gun, as in issued by the department. if youre challenged in a commie state about its magazine capasity what can they do under leosa? arrest you? seize your duty gun and let the attorney generals fight it out? would be an interesting test case and id like to see a jury's decision on it, not a judge's.
|
Many County Prosecutors in NJ forbid Officers from taking their dept issued weapons out of state. Liability reasons they say.
__________________
Sig P225/S&W 60, 66, M&P 45, M&P 9c, 1911SC/Glock G22 Gen4 & G36/Kimber Pro Tactical II/Ruger Mk II/H&K P30, 45c
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 23:30
|
#17
|
|
The Anti-Glock
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,590
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajon412
|
From what I've heard recently on this, the prohibition still applies to NJ retirees. They recommend either critical defense, power balls or EFMJs to circumvent the stupidity of NJ. Also permits for retired carry in NJ are backed up at least 6 months. Almost seems like they don't even want retired cops carrying here.
__________________
Sig P225/S&W 60, 66, M&P 45, M&P 9c, 1911SC/Glock G22 Gen4 & G36/Kimber Pro Tactical II/Ruger Mk II/H&K P30, 45c
Last edited by mrsurfboard; 11-28-2011 at 23:31..
|
|
|
|
|
11-28-2011, 23:54
|
#18
|
|
Juris Glocktor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 35,459
|
Sounds about right for Jersey. Wonder how CA is implementing their retiree CCW's for those agencies which are dicking their own people around.
__________________
Cool story, bro... when do you get to the part where you shut up and walk away from me?
|
|
|
|
|
11-29-2011, 03:42
|
#19
|
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,210
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsurfboard
From what I've heard recently on this, the prohibition still applies to NJ retirees. They recommend either critical defense, power balls or EFMJs to circumvent the stupidity of NJ. Also permits for retired carry in NJ are backed up at least 6 months. Almost seems like they don't even want retired cops carrying here.
|
I'm not sure just how many Troopers are assigned to the RPO Permit Unit. Maybe 4949 can chime in on this one....
__________________
"A man's got to know his limitations."-Harry Callahan
"Nearly all men can stand adversity. But if you want to test a man's character - give him power"-Abraham Lincoln
“...Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing”
|
|
|
|
|
11-29-2011, 10:38
|
#20
|
|
No Infidels!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Circling the wagons.
Posts: 15,309
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe
carry you duty gun, as in issued by the department. if youre challenged in a commie state about its magazine capasity what can they do under leosa? arrest you? seize your duty gun and let the attorney generals fight it out? would be an interesting test case and id like to see a jury's decision on it, not a judge's.
|
Carrying the department issued duty gun while off duty is actually prohibited by more agencies than you would think.
__________________
"Logic is rarely the engine that propels a police department forward."
-David Simon in "Homicide"
|
|
|
|
|
11-29-2011, 11:49
|
#21
|
|
Juris Glocktor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 35,459
|
Some departments actually require you to carry your issue with you, at least to and from work. You can leave it at home, but they don't want it at the station. A few places have experienced locker room crime and didn't want their issue weapon exposed to the possibility.
__________________
Cool story, bro... when do you get to the part where you shut up and walk away from me?
|
|
|
|
|
11-29-2011, 14:03
|
#22
|
|
you savvy?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: in a socialist nation
Posts: 17,651
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800
Some departments actually require you to carry your issue with you, at least to and from work. You can leave it at home, but they don't want it at the station. A few places have experienced locker room crime and didn't want their issue weapon exposed to the possibility.
|
you mean cops would steal?! 
__________________
wheres my free phone?
both Obama and the KKK want to disarm black folks.
www.silentscream.org
|
|
|
|
|
11-29-2011, 17:09
|
#23
|
|
Juris Glocktor
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 35,459
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe
you mean cops would steal?! |
Shocking, ain't it? But the specific instances I heard about involving stolen weapons were unauthorized people getting into the locker room.  
__________________
Cool story, bro... when do you get to the part where you shut up and walk away from me?
|
|
|
|
|
11-29-2011, 17:09
|
#24
|
|
G19/J Frame fan
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: KY
Posts: 1,813
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman
How many states have ammo limit restriction? CA and NY. Who else?
|
CA, HI, NY are 10rd.
NJ is 15rd.
I know there are others, but can't think of them right now.
__________________
"When you go home, Tell them of us and say, For your tomorrow, We gave our today."
|
|
|
|
|
11-29-2011, 17:57
|
#25
|
|
Double Tap
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Hampton Roads
Posts: 711
|
If your a COP or RETIRED COP and I or one of my guys come across you I/WE dont give a Rats behind if your packing hollow points or even 33 round mags. As long as you shoot the bad guys, have the correct creds and not pointing the gun at ME/US.. your good to go.. we get alot of NYPD guys down here for vacation and everytime we come across them the last thing we worry about is MAGS AND AMMO..most of the time it is giving directions to the bars and where to park for free..I/WE dont care if their packing a bazooka as long as it does not go off in my direction carry on...we believe in ODO carry here...we are having gun battles and murders almost every couple days.. Hell my wife packs a j Frame 38...like every place you will always have that ONE who will lock up his mother for Jwalking but we try to correct that thinking on my platoon...
|
|
|
|
|
Sponsored Links
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
 Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:56.
|
|
|
