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Old 11-27-2011, 16:04   #1
Brasso
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Have a Happy Day of Mithras !!!

Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once gentiles1 in the flesh, who are called ‘the uncircumcision’ by what is called ‘the circumcision’ made in the flesh by hands, Footnote: 11 Cor. 12:2.
Eph 2:12 that at that time you were without Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Yisra’ĕl and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no expectation and without Elohim in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Messiah יהושע you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the set-apart ones and members of the household of Elohim,


Jer 10:1 Hear the word which יהוה speaks to you, O house of Yisra’ĕl.
Jer 10:2 Thus said יהוה, “Do not learn the way of the gentiles,1 and do not be awed by the signs of the heavens, for the gentiles are awed by them.2 Footnotes: 1Lev. 18:3, Dt. 12:30 & 18:9, Ezek. 11:12 & 20:32, Eph. 4:17, 1 Peter 4:3. 2Dt. 4:19 & 17:3.
Jer 10:3 “For the prescribed customs of these peoples are worthless, for one cuts a tree from the forest, work for the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.
Jer 10:4 “They adorn it with silver and gold, they fasten it with nails and hammers so that it does not topple.
Jer 10:5 “They are like a rounded post, and they do not speak. They have to be carried, because they do not walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they do no evil, nor is it in them to do any good.”
Jer 10:6 There is none like You, O יהוה. You are great, and great is Your Name in might.
Jer 10:7 Who would not fear You, O Sovereign of the nations? For this is Your due, for among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their reigns, there is none like You.
Jer 10:8 They are both brutish and foolish, an instruction of worthlessness is the tree.


Happy Mithras Day.
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Old 11-27-2011, 18:30   #2
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Thanks.............back at ya!!
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Old 11-27-2011, 19:12   #3
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Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once gentiles1 in the flesh, who are called ‘the uncircumcision’ by what is called ‘the circumcision’ made in the flesh by hands, Footnote: 11 Cor. 12:2.
Eph 2:12 that at that time you were without Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Yisra’ĕl and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no expectation and without Elohim in the world.
Eph 2:13 But now in Messiah יהושע you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the set-apart ones and members of the household of Elohim,


Jer 10:1 Hear the word which יהוה speaks to you, O house of Yisra’ĕl.
Jer 10:2 Thus said יהוה, “Do not learn the way of the gentiles,1 and do not be awed by the signs of the heavens, for the gentiles are awed by them.2 Footnotes: 1Lev. 18:3, Dt. 12:30 & 18:9, Ezek. 11:12 & 20:32, Eph. 4:17, 1 Peter 4:3. 2Dt. 4:19 & 17:3.
Jer 10:3 “For the prescribed customs of these peoples are worthless, for one cuts a tree from the forest, work for the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool.
Jer 10:4 “They adorn it with silver and gold, they fasten it with nails and hammers so that it does not topple.
Jer 10:5 “They are like a rounded post, and they do not speak. They have to be carried, because they do not walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they do no evil, nor is it in them to do any good.”
Jer 10:6 There is none like You, O יהוה. You are great, and great is Your Name in might.
Jer 10:7 Who would not fear You, O Sovereign of the nations? For this is Your due, for among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their reigns, there is none like You.
Jer 10:8 They are both brutish and foolish, an instruction of worthlessness is the tree.


Happy Mithras Day.
It is true that Christmas day and the Christmas tree have pagan origins, but going over the top and applying scripture that refers to idol worship is not accurate or a very Christian thing to do.
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Old 11-27-2011, 20:32   #4
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Oh. So is Christmas of pagan origin or not? I always thought that if something was pagan it shouldn't be participated in by believers. I'm almost sure I read that somewhere. Oh yeah, it's in that passage I just posted. Besides, Dec. 25 is the birthday of the sun god. His symbol was the crux. His mother was a virgin. Isn't this what Christmas is about?

I guess I'm just in a sarcastic mood today.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:27   #5
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Oh. So is Christmas of pagan origin or not? I always thought that if something was pagan it shouldn't be participated in by believers. I'm almost sure I read that somewhere. Oh yeah, it's in that passage I just posted. Besides, Dec. 25 is the birthday of the sun god. His symbol was the crux. His mother was a virgin. Isn't this what Christmas is about?

I guess I'm just in a sarcastic mood today.
Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen,(pagan)

It funny how so-called christians choose to ignore what God says so they can learn and practice pagan customs. Even those that admit christmas and the tree came from pagan customs continue to keep it.

What a slap in Gods face. Oh well it isn't the first time they have done it.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:20   #6
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Oh. So is Christmas of pagan origin or not? I always thought that if something was pagan it shouldn't be participated in by believers. I'm almost sure I read that somewhere. Oh yeah, it's in that passage I just posted. Besides, Dec. 25 is the birthday of the sun god. His symbol was the crux. His mother was a virgin. Isn't this what Christmas is about?

I guess I'm just in a sarcastic mood today.
TODAY?
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:23   #7
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Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen,(pagan)

It funny how so-called christians choose to ignore what God says so they can learn and practice pagan customs. Even those that admit christmas and the tree came from pagan customs continue to keep it.

What a slap in Gods face. Oh well it isn't the first time they have done it.
But, what if the pagans are right? There is just as much evidence to support the pagan view as their is to support your (whatever the heck you are) view.
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:38   #8
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But, what if the pagans are right? There is just as much evidence to support the pagan view as their is to support your (whatever the heck you are) view.
That's fine, just don't slap Christ name on pagan days.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:54   #9
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Oh. So is Christmas of pagan origin or not? I always thought that if something was pagan it shouldn't be participated in by believers. I'm almost sure I read that somewhere. Oh yeah, it's in that passage I just posted. Besides, Dec. 25 is the birthday of the sun god. His symbol was the crux. His mother was a virgin. Isn't this what Christmas is about?

I guess I'm just in a sarcastic mood today.
Today??!?

Anyway, I just answered this on the other thread:
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Sorry. That is urban legend.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:56   #10
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That's fine, just don't slap Christ name on pagan days.
Yeah, 'cause we wouldn't want to claim pagan things for Christ.
Pagan things like you & I. Right? (Not)

BTW, God claimed many formerly pagan things for Himself, such as animal sacrifice, baptism, temples, circumcision, etc., etc.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:19   #11
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Oh. So is Christmas of pagan origin or not? I always thought that if something was pagan it shouldn't be participated in by believers. I'm almost sure I read that somewhere. Oh yeah, it's in that passage I just posted. Besides, Dec. 25 is the birthday of the sun god. His symbol was the crux. His mother was a virgin. Isn't this what Christmas is about?

I guess I'm just in a sarcastic mood today.
Christmas is of both pagan and Christian origin. The Roman Empire was very good at syncretism. That is gluing things together. Wasn't Jesus mother a virgin? BTW there is no commandment against celebrating Jesus birth.

I don't have a tree, but I do acknowledge Jesus birth. I don't judge people for keeping the day to the Lord. This is what the Bible tells us to do. Don't be so sarcastic and judgmental.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.
14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:53   #12
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Yeah, 'cause we wouldn't want to claim pagan things for Christ.
Pagan things like you & I. Right? (Not)

BTW, God claimed many formerly pagan things for Himself, such as animal sacrifice, baptism, temples, circumcision, etc., etc.

God created all things, sorry Bert you don't see this. God created animal sac.,baptism,temples,circum. for Himself.. Man (just like the rcc today) took Gods created things and used it in worship of their own gods.

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Old 11-28-2011, 10:58   #13
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Christmas is of both pagan and Christian origin.
Are we not to walk as Jesus walked ? do as Jesus did? Christmas customs came into christianity much later than when Jesus lived. So He never done or approved them.

"I don't have a tree, but I do acknowledge Jesus birth."

In the Bible who were the only ones that acknowledged in a celebration ones birth?

If Jesus had wanted His birth kept why not give the date, since the Bible is very specific on dates God wants us to keep?

Jesus did however ask us to remember His death and gave us the date in which to do it. He did it as an example for us to keep.

After all Jesus died for our sins He wasn't born for them.

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Old 11-28-2011, 12:45   #14
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God created all things, sorry Bert you don't see this.
Actually, I do see it. It's you who are denying it.

Quote:
God created animal sac.,baptism,temples,circum. for Himself..
And He didn't create things like pine trees?

Quote:
Man (just like the rcc today) took Gods created things and used it in worship of their own gods.

Ahh ... calumny. Didn't take too long for you to be bearing false witness.
You should think about actually following Christ some time.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:55   #15
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[QUOTE=Schabesbert;18216193]

And He didn't create things like pine trees?

QUOTE]

He sure did and in Jere.10 He instructs us not to learn the practices of the pagans and cutting down the pine trees and decorating them with silver and gold during the winter solstice Of which the festival of Yule took place on dec. 21-22.

The roman cath. church later changed this celebration to dec. 25 and called it christmas.

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Old 11-28-2011, 13:01   #16
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Quote:
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And He didn't create things like pine trees?
He sure did and in Jere.10 He instructs us not to learn the practices of the pagans and cutting down the pine trees and decorating them with silver and gold during the winter solstice Of which the festival of Yule took place on dec. 21-22.
He does?
Where?

I'm not sure if you really belive this, or if you're purposefully deceptive.

Quote:

The roman cath. church later changed this celebration to dec. 25 and called it christmas.

Really? You can cite this, I'm sure, even though the historian I quoted above disputes this.
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Old 11-28-2011, 17:54   #17
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Are we not to walk as Jesus walked ? do as Jesus did? Christmas customs came into christianity much later than when Jesus lived. So He never done or approved them.

"I don't have a tree, but I do acknowledge Jesus birth."

In the Bible who were the only ones that acknowledged in a celebration ones birth?

If Jesus had wanted His birth kept why not give the date, since the Bible is very specific on dates God wants us to keep?

Jesus did however ask us to remember His death and gave us the date in which to do it. He did it as an example for us to keep.

After all Jesus died for our sins He wasn't born for them.
The irony of this is that you condemn others for not observing feasts that Jesus Himself fulfilled, and then you comdemn others for wanting to celebrate a day of giving and caring in honor of His birth. I would be inclined to celebrate another day other than December 25th if you could just prove to me on which day Jesus was born. I know it wasn't December, but I can't tell you the exact month or day. Can you?
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Old 11-28-2011, 18:38   #18
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"Better is the day of one's death, than the day of one's birth."

All the clues point to Him being born at Succot. Doesn't really matter because we aren't told to celebrate His birth. If we were, He would have given us a Feast Day for it. We are told to keep Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentacost, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles,a nd the Last Great Day. None of which you seem to keep. So I find it even more ironic that you are condemning me for keeping Days He said to keep forever because I said you shouldn't keep a day that celebrates the sun god.
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Old 11-28-2011, 18:53   #19
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"Better is the day of one's death, than the day of one's birth."

All the clues point to Him being born at Succot. Doesn't really matter because we aren't told to celebrate His birth. If we were, He would have given us a Feast Day for it. We are told to keep Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentacost, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles,a nd the Last Great Day. None of which you seem to keep. So I find it even more ironic that you are condemning me for keeping Days He said to keep forever because I said you shouldn't keep a day that celebrates the sun god.
Jesus fulfilled the Passover by showing us how to keep it in honor of Him, and when He died as the sacrifice without blemish on the Cross. Jesus fulfilled the feast of unlevened bread by being the Bread of Life. Jesus stood up in the Gospel of John and fufilled the Feast of Booths (Tabernacles) by declaring Himself the water of Life. Yet, you ignore Jesus, and look back toward the ceremonies that pointed to Him, and the same time declare no one should celebrate the birth of our Salvation. Very very strange.
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Old 11-28-2011, 19:57   #20
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So He was the Passover Lamb, but no longer? He was the Bread of Life, but no longer? I'm not going to listen to you tell me I'm looking back at something. I'm not. You're the one who's screwed up. I celebrate Him in every one of those days that He said to keep forever and I'll listen to Him thankyou. Me strange?

.....wow I'm trying real hard to stay calm here...

He fulfilled them so we don't have to? Really? REALY??? Please tell me where this nugget of wisdom can be found. Apparently I'm still stuck on the part where He tells us they won't pass till heaven and earth do. Please, oh please, tell me where in the Bible I can find where He lied and changed His mind?
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Old 11-28-2011, 20:02   #21
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So He was the Passover Lamb, but no longer? He was the Bread of Life, but no longer? I'm not going to listen to tell me I'm looking back at something. I'm not. You're the one who's screwed up. I celebrate Him in every one of those days that He said to keep forever and I'll listen to Him thankyou. Me strange?

.....wow I'm trying real hard to stay calm.
no one cares what you do rabbi...............blow up, show us YHWH's love that's dwelling in you
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Old 11-28-2011, 21:41   #22
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Why are you interjecting? You don't believe. This conversation doesn't concern you.

It's frustrating because contrary to all the evidence and passages in the Bible, it's as if I'm trying to convince him there really is a God, and all the while he's denying while also claiming to believe.


It's nonsensical.
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Old 11-29-2011, 08:04   #23
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I would be inclined to celebrate another day other than December 25th if you could just prove to me on which day Jesus was born. I know it wasn't December,
You do???
How do you know this?
Oh, I kinow: "they say." This is known as "pseudo-knowledge."
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Old 11-29-2011, 08:24   #24
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You do???
How do you know this?
Oh, I kinow: "they say." This is known as "pseudo-knowledge."
Well the Bible gives us clear clues it could not have been in Dec.

First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus birth (Luke:2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night"

Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke:2:1-4). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.

Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke:1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke:1:5). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year..

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife Elizabeth would have a child (Luke:1:8-13). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (verses 23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.


So Bert do you deny Bible facts?
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Old 11-29-2011, 12:46   #25
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Well the Bible gives us clear clues it could not have been in Dec.

First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus birth (Luke:2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night"
First, that is not true. Shepherds, even today, field their flocks in December. Second, the climate is not stagnant, and we don't know what the average temperature was 2k years ago. Third, it could have been during a warm spell.

You're placing a lot of faith into speculation.

Quote:
Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke:2:1-4). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.
More speculation.
Yeah, the Romans were known for their compassionate dictates.

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Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke:1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke:1:5). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year..

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife Elizabeth would have a child (Luke:1:8-13). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (verses 23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.
You obviously didn't read my cited article.

Historical calculations indicate that Zacharias would have been serving in the Temple in October.

Just so you don't have to work too hard, here's what was said in More Dating on Christmas - #2:
However, you can also calculate a Dec 25 date from Scripture.

Reading the first few chapters of Luke, we see that everything is timed from when Zacharias was in the temple, let's assume for the sake of argument that this was in early October. That would place the likely time of John the Baptist's conception toward the end of October or early November. This is based on his week of service, his ritual cleansing time, and assuming he got right down to business with Elisabeth (if an angel told me I was going to have a kid, I'd expect things to move right along).

So, Elisabeth then hid herself for five months. In the beginning of April, the angel appeared to Mary. Let's call the date April 1. A normal gestation period of 270 days puts the birth of Jesus on Dec. 25.

Obvious question: Was Zacharias serving in October?

The Mishnah indicates that each course served a week during the first half of the year, the three festival weeks, and a week during the last half of the year, for a total of five weeks during a normal year.

We start counting weeks on the first Sabbath of Nisan (approx. March), here's when Zacharias would have served:

Week 3 Feast of the Unleavened;
Week 9 Pentecost (65 days after Nisan 14);
Week 10 (2 festivals + 8 courses);
Week 29 Tishri festival of booths;
Week 35 (24 courses + 3 feasts + 8 courses)

Week 35 is going to be sometime in October or November. However, there are various problems with the calendar translation with extra months getting thrown in, arguments about when exactly new moons happen, etc etc. Fortunately, it seems that Zacharias was serving during the Day of Atonement, which is easier to peg to a date. The Day of Atonement is the nineteenth day of Tischri, which falls in September/October. After the dust settles, you get the first week in October as the most likely date that Zacharias had his visit.

Early church lore (John Chrysostom) has Zechariah's visit from the angel happening on the Day of Atonement.
...

So, this, taken with early Church's belief that Christ was born on December 25th (although the Eastern Church uses either Jan 1st or Jan 6th) seems to indicate that December 25th is the date.

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Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42