Glock Talk
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11-30-2011, 23:19
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 782
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9mm vs 45ACP literally lol
I had just got to thinking,
You take a 1911 and empty a full magazine into a perp in self defense, he has a 3.6 inch hole (cumulative) and 1,840 grains of lead embedded in his body.
You take an 18 shot M&P 9mm and empty a magazine into a perp in self defense, he has a (cumulative) 6.84 inch hole in him and 2,646 grains of lead embedded in his body.
What are your thoughts on this?
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12-01-2011, 00:15
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#2
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Code-7A KUZ769
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In The State Of Fruitloops (CA)
Posts: 5,075
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Meaningless...
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Barack Obama
One Bad Ass Mistake America
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12-01-2011, 07:10
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 358
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12-01-2011, 07:20
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkavaboy
Meaningless...
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+1...
It will likely be over after only a couple of rounds fired.
Edmo
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12-01-2011, 07:24
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#5
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Grape flavored!
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 782
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Rerun that with a contemporary polymer .45 pistol, say like an XD45 (13+1), for a more meaningful comparison.
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12-01-2011, 07:25
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fort Myers, Florida
Posts: 34
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Would you ever really pump 18 shots into one perp?
Man, you want him good and dead. Not just dead.
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12-01-2011, 07:28
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9MM Louey
Would you ever really pump 18 shots into one perp?
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NYPD does it all the time.
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12-01-2011, 09:18
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 268
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I'm going to have to correct some math issues here. Hope I get it right.
8 45ACP have a combined cross sectional area of 1.28 square inches. That would equate to a single hole with a diameter of 1.28 inches.
18 9mm equals 1.78 square inches or a single hole diameter of 1.51 inches.
And the attacker may have no lead in his body if it comes out the other side.
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12-01-2011, 12:16
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: KS
Posts: 2,395
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Too much time on your hands...
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Si vis pacem parabellum
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12-01-2011, 12:39
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Commonwealth of Virginia
Posts: 23,127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HexHead
NYPD does it all the time.
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They fire that many at the perp, they don't put that.many into the perp
__________________
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years,
educate children." -- Confucius
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12-01-2011, 12:47
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3000fps
I had just got to thinking,
You take a 1911 and empty a full magazine into a perp in self defense, he has a 3.6 inch hole (cumulative) and 1,840 grains of lead embedded in his body.
You take an 18 shot M&P 9mm and empty a magazine into a perp in self defense, he has a (cumulative) 6.84 inch hole in him and 2,646 grains of lead embedded in his body.
What are your thoughts on this?
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1st Thought: If the guy is standing still long enough to shoot him with 9 rounds of .45 ACP you're probably hitting the wrong spot.
2nd Thought: If the guy is standing still long enough to shoot him with 18 rounds of 9mm you're probably still hitting the wrong spot.
3rd Thought: Shot quality over quantity. Placement matters no matter the caliber.
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12-01-2011, 12:49
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Portland,Oregon
Posts: 1,725
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You will have a lot of prison time to think that over after pumping that many additional bullets into a corpse. In reality - it will be the first few rounds that will decide the outcome of the fight. And bigger is better in this case. Cheers.
__________________
Tuica: NRA Certified Instructor; Oregon CHL Instructor; GMG2 - US Navy 1976-1980. USS Coral Sea, 1977-1980. Forward Deployed - The Gulf.
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12-01-2011, 12:49
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Commonwealth of Virginia
Posts: 23,127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpelliott
I'm going to have to correct some math issues here. Hope I get it right.
8 45ACP have a combined cross sectional area of 1.28 square inches. That would equate to a single hole with a diameter of 1.28 inches.
18 9mm equals 1.78 square inches or a single hole diameter of 1.51 inches.
And the attacker may have no lead in his body if it comes out the other side.
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If my math is right 8 12 ga slugs would leave 3.25 square inches.of holes.
And no lead in them because they all would pass through.
So I'll take an12 ga with slugs.
__________________
"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years,
educate children." -- Confucius
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12-01-2011, 13:43
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 19,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3000fps
I had just got to thinking,
You take a 1911 and empty a full magazine into a perp in self defense, he has a 3.6 inch hole (cumulative) and 1,840 grains of lead embedded in his body.
You take an 18 shot M&P 9mm and empty a magazine into a perp in self defense, he has a (cumulative) 6.84 inch hole in him and 2,646 grains of lead embedded in his body.
What are your thoughts on this?
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I'll play. Sure, IF you could land all 18 vs 9, then it might mean something, like getting hit w/ a SG blast of #4 buck instead of 1 or 2 22lr. Maybe look at it as I do; at best one can expext to land 1-2 hits on a BG in a gunfight w/ both BG & shooter moving, low light, etc. So I want the biggest holes I can get, that is more times than not going to happen w/ a bullet starting out 28% larger. 
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"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
Last edited by fredj338; 12-01-2011 at 13:45..
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12-01-2011, 23:39
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrikkoolaid
Rerun that with a contemporary polymer .45 pistol, say like an XD45 (13+1), for a more meaningful comparison.
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I'll see your 13+1 and raise you this
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12-02-2011, 07:45
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 13,468
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Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified
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12-02-2011, 11:56
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#17
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In The Saddle
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vafish
They fire that many at the perp, they don't put that.many into the perp
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Well Said !!!
CM
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12-02-2011, 11:59
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#18
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merkavaboy
Meaningless...
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agreed. you assume the one with the 45 uses less rounds than the 9. why change the amount of trigger pulls?
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12-04-2011, 13:05
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9mm +p+
Too much time on your hands...
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Coming from the guy with 1,900 posts lol.
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12-06-2011, 08:56
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Soggy South.
Posts: 760
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I'm thinking the shooter could have stopped at 4 or 5 rounds with more practice.
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12-06-2011, 10:48
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 236
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To the OP.
First, I like the thought process. Thinking outside the box is good for the brain.
Second, are you shooting at someone that is already dead?
Third, You have 190 post since august of this year. 9mm has 1900 since March of 2005. Comparitively speaking, you have more time on your hands.
Fourth, I can't believe I wasted my time not only reading this but also replying to it.
That's all.
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12-08-2011, 06:12
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#22
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
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You need to factor in penetration depth.
I have actually thought about such an approach when it comes to shotgun buckshot loads, but never for pistols.
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