WIN 231 and . 45 ACP

Skytow · 12-03-2011, 18:50

All,

I'm working with some WIN 231 in .45 and looking for a load using 185 JHP from MG.

I have a Speer manual 5th edition from 1998 that lists a Speer Gold Dot 185 g bullet at 6.6 to 7.4 g of 231. Does that seem excessive?

I've looked all over for similar data. The current WIN data indicates 5.0-5.9 g for a 185 g JSWC.

Why the BIG difference? What is your experience? I've loaded up 15 rounds with 7.0 g over the 185 to test but am now wondering if that is prudent despite what my Speer manual says.

JD

Skytow · 12-04-2011, 15:29

Well, I'll answer my own question:

Does 7.0 g of 231 seem like a lot for a 185 g JHP in .45? It does, but the Speer manual goes even higher so...

I backed off to the next volume down on my disk which resulted in 6.4 g and I made about 25 of those. The 6.4 g load shot well with no signs of pressure whatever. It was reasonably accurate.

So... time for the test! I loaded one round of the 7.0g load and, while it was hot, it shot great. The primers look fine but I wouldn't go ANY higher in my Glock. I looked for the infamous bulge and could not detect any at all. I loaded up a mag and the load was very accurate. I'd love to back off to 6.8 g but my current set up won't allow. I have to spring for the micro adjustable set up!

JD out....

ColoCG · 12-04-2011, 17:27

That load in the Speer manual does sound hot. I don't use 231 in the .45. But when ever you are in doubt about a load it is always best to start low and work your way up slowly. Hodgdons web sight shows 5gr. to 5.9gr. of 231. Lyman manual shows 4.1gr to 6.1 gr. of 231 with a 185gr jacketed bullet in.45acp. If I were you I would back down your load and work it up.

ColoCG · 12-04-2011, 17:45

That's why is good to have several manuals and x-check the loads that are listed even with the powder manufacturers web sight as you did.

Usually it's not a good idea to use manuals as old as the Speer # 5 because manufacturer sometimes change the powder mixture and burning rates. In this case even Speer #14 lists the same data. But that is with a GD, different bullets can be made harder or softer and have different bearing surfaces that all can effect pressure.
Some data can be tested in anactual gun while others use a pressure barrel, so loads can vary every barrel is different.

snowwdog · 12-04-2011, 18:35

yep, the older manuals are all on the "hot" side. Newer books are much more conservative. Also as colocg stated the powder makeup may change. I usually do 3 sources and start in the middle and work my way to a comfortable round. I loaded a 44 mag round when i was young and dumb using one source of info and it nearly broke my wrist, lol.

BUG'S · 12-04-2011, 18:46

SKYTOW: The Speer Manual #14 also lists the 185gn Gold Dot HP with a starting charge of Win 231 at 6.6gn and a maximum charge of 7.4gn. Irregardless that sounds a little hot to me. Just for a comparison they also list the 230 gn TMJ using WIN 231 with a starting charge of 5.6 gn and max charge of 6.2 gn. I load a FMJ 230 gn ZERO bullet with 5.2 gn of WIN 231 which produces a nice target load with an OAL 1.260.

If it were me I would start @ 5.6 gn and work up from there to check accuracy and muzzle velocity. Along the way watch for signs of pressure increase.

GIockGuy24 · 12-04-2011, 18:49

The Winchester load guides says 6.8 grains is max with a 185 grain JHP bullet as a standard pressure load. The Hodgdon manual says 6.6 grains of HP-38 with a 185 grain JHP bullet is a +P load. HP-38 is the bulk version of W-231. The Speer manual does seem to have some of the hottest pistol loads in several calibers. I have used 6.6 grains of HP-38 and it has given close to +P velocities.

Glock21sf-miami · 12-04-2011, 21:17

switch to WST, you will be glad you did...

fredj338 · 12-05-2011, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColoCG

That's why is good to have several manuals and x-check the loads that are listed even with the powder manufacturers web sight as you did.

Usually it's not a good idea to use manuals as old as the Speer # 5 because manufacturer sometimes change the powder mixture and burning rates. In this case even Speer #14 lists the same data. But that is with a GD, different bullets can be made harder or softer and have different bearing surfaces that all can effect pressure.
Some data can be tested in anactual gun while others use a pressure barrel, so loads can vary every barrel is different.

The bigger diff in the Speer GD vs the MG is bearing length. The GD is pretty short, the MG is more like the XTP. I went to 6gr under a 185grXTP for 890fps in a 5" 1911. I think your 7gr load is pretty hot, but should be safe. Hornady maxs out @ 7.2gr.