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Old 12-06-2011, 12:35   #226
holesinpaper
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Originally Posted by hamster View Post
That is fine, I'm just trying to point out that in the minds of some of the glocktalkers here, the mere presence of a prescription = reefer madness.
I'm more worried about the posters above who are popping Oxy like candy, like Rush Limbaugh.

When they finally have to quit, they will realize just how bad withdrawal can be -- because they are physically if not psychologically, dependent (and they are probably psychologically dependent too).

6 months straight on Oxy. Good luck.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:37   #227
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Originally Posted by holesinpaper View Post
I'm more worried about the posters above who are popping Oxy like candy, like Rush Limbaugh.

When they finally have to quit, they will realize just how bad withdrawal can be -- because they are physically if not psychologically, dependent (and they are probably psychologically dependent too).

6 months straight on Oxy. Good luck.
Oxycotin is NOT oxycodone or hydrocodone. Different drugs. You know that, right?
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:37   #228
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That is fine, I'm just trying to point out that in the minds of some of the glocktalkers here, the mere presence of a prescription = reefer madness.
I've been on Oxycodone by prescription for injuries before. By the time I got so high on them where it was unsafe for me to carry, it was also unsafe for me to get out of bed.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:38   #229
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Oxycotin is NOT oxycodone or hydrocodone. Different drugs. You know that, right?
Uh, no. Oxycotin is the brand name for an Oxycodone drug.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:42   #230
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Uh, no. Oxycotin is the brand name for an Oxycodone drug.
I've got the stuff right here in my hand and I had a very long conversation with my doctor at the pain management center who told me they are not the same thing.
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Old 12-06-2011, 13:04   #231
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I've got the stuff right here in my hand and I had a very long conversation with my doctor at the pain management center who told me they are not the same thing.
Oxycontin contains oxycodone. Oxycodone is immediate release and lasts 4-6 hours. Oxycontin is the extended release form of oxycodone with a time release feature allowing you to take one pill to last 12 hours.

Oxycontin gets it's bad name from junkies who try and defeat the time release to obtain a greater high all at once.
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Old 12-06-2011, 13:19   #232
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Originally Posted by Sharky7 View Post
Oxycontin contains oxycodone. Oxycodone is immediate release and lasts 4-6 hours. Oxycontin is the extended release form of oxycodone with a time release feature allowing you to take one pill to last 12 hours.

Oxycontin gets it's bad name from junkies who try and defeat the time release to obtain a greater high all at once.
Let me see if I've got something mixed up then. I can tell you I've been prescribed both and the difference is obvious to me.
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Old 12-06-2011, 13:52   #233
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Let me see if I've got something mixed up then. I can tell you I've been prescribed both and the difference is obvious to me.
I can't trust the opinion of someone under the influence.



(His point was: the physical effects of a drug can be different based on delivery method, but the drug can be the same. Instant release versus time released... but it's the same basic drug)
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Old 12-06-2011, 14:05   #234
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Oxycodone = Percocet, minus the APAP that comes with Percocet, usually in 325 MG if memory serves me.
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Old 12-06-2011, 15:25   #235
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I've got the stuff right here in my hand and I had a very long conversation with my doctor at the pain management center who told me they are not the same thing.
Read the ingredients. Oxycodone is the narcotic. theres Oxycodone and Hydrocodone. Then theres several different things they're cut with. With those combinations they've made all kinds of different painkillers for different situations.
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Old 12-06-2011, 15:39   #236
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Originally Posted by Sharky7 View Post
Oxycontin contains oxycodone. Oxycodone is immediate release and lasts 4-6 hours. Oxycontin is the extended release form of oxycodone with a time release feature allowing you to take one pill to last 12 hours.

Oxycontin gets it's bad name from junkies who try and defeat the time release to obtain a greater high all at once.
Actually this all makes perfect sense it just seems counter intuitive. The doctors told me that when they tried switching people over to time release pain killers the patients complained it didn't work anymore and wanted higher doses, more of the drug to get a satisfactory result. That is also my experience. Oxycotin doesn't work as well, and has worse side effects. I find the stuff to be practically useless. A lower dose of oxycodone works better. A much lower dose of hydrocodone apap works a lot better than the others.
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:56   #237
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Iíve observed that the hyperbole and slogans often lead to spurious relationships. One fallacy is Most of the criminals apprehended are drug users*, therefore (and conversely) all drug users are criminals. Hyperbolic TV and government marketing is often not interested in making distinctions between casual users, abusers, and addicts, and criminals. Addicts are the smallest category of user, but often get the most press.**

Thereís also the chicken and egg argument with drug use and crime. I once knew someone who worked on Wall St. She told me that a disproportionate number of people in her industry smoke cigarettes. Which would I conclude: Working on Wall St. leads to cigarette use, or cigarette use leads to a job on Wall St.? Does a drug user degenerate to prostitution or do prostitutes use drugs to ease their stress and problems? Maybe the two happen at the same time. A person might also ask if the groups of people likely to use drugs overlap with the groups likely to commit crimes. Does criminalizing drugs lead people to come in contact more frequently with other criminal elements? Would they necessarily interact with these criminal elements if their drug of choice was legal? What is different about the housewife ingesting pain killers versus the street thug ingesting pain killers?

Not saying these questions can be answered in a two sentence post, but the truth is often different than what the news presents.





*Itís not really true that most people in prison committed their crime for drug money, but a lot of people will believe it anyway. The vast majority of people in prison did not commit their crime for drug money.

**Most people engaged in a singular activity are not abusers or addicts. That goes for illegal drugs, alcohol, sex, TV, internet, food, guns, etc.
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Old 12-09-2011, 15:54   #238
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*Itís not really true that most people in prison committed their crime for drug money, but a lot of people will believe it anyway. The vast majority of people in prison did not commit their crime for drug money.
Where are you getting your information on this? What is your experience? Is this a personal statistic you made up or did you get it from somewhere?

I can tell you that this is not true in my area. The motivation for the overwhelming majority of our crimes are committed to obtain money to then obtain drugs.

I also see a link between heavy addiction and the rate of criminal activity for individuals. We have "regulars" who drop off the radar and don't get arrested for a year or so. I always come to find out it is because they got clean. After they got clean, they were able to hold a regular job. They were no longer wasting hundreds a week on heroin and no longer had the stress of where they were going to come up with their money otherwise they would be sick in withdrawals.

Gangs, street crimes, drugs, prostitution, violence - all go hand in hand. Come do a week on my beat.
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Old 12-09-2011, 16:05   #239
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83% of Cook County inmates tested positive for drug use upon admission.

"Cocaine and heroin users — who often steal to feed their habits — are overrepresented among those caught committing property crimes, while marijuana users account for a disproportionate number of drug arrests."

Kerlikowske said the study shows that “drug addiction is too often the root of crime in our communities.”

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/5...in-system.html

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Old 12-09-2011, 17:49   #240
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83% of Cook County inmates tested positive for drug use upon admission.

"Cocaine and heroin users — who often steal to feed their habits — are overrepresented among those caught committing property crimes, while marijuana users account for a disproportionate number of drug arrests."

Kerlikowske said the study shows that “drug addiction is too often the root of crime in our communities.”

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/5...in-system.html
So I take it you see the wisdom of decriminalizing drugs now?

Kerlikowski is a moron Making that point.

Government makes the price of drugs high. If they weren't illegal addicts wouldn't be under constant pressure for money to feed their habit.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 12-09-2011 at 17:59..
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Old 12-09-2011, 19:27   #241
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So I take it you see the wisdom of decriminalizing drugs now?

Kerlikowski is a moron Making that point.

Government makes the price of drugs high. If they weren't illegal addicts wouldn't be under constant pressure for money to feed their habit.
Drugs are dirt cheap. You can buy heroin for only $10 a bag....you can buy 13 bags of heroin for $100, it is called a "jab." A single bag of heroin is something that would keep you or me high ALL day long because we don't have a tolerance to large amount of opiates. The more frequent we use, the higher our tolerance goes up. We go from needing $10 a day to $100 a day within just a few weeks. Heroin is the cheapest and purest it has ever been.

How is there now "wisdom" to decriminalizing drugs?

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Old 12-09-2011, 19:33   #242
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So I take it you see the wisdom of decriminalizing drugs now?
Do some research on the drug "hubs" in the United States. Check out the corresponding high crime rates when large amount of street drugs are available.
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Old 12-09-2011, 21:07   #243
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Do some research on the drug "hubs" in the United States. Check out the corresponding high crime rates when large amount of street drugs are available.
You just don't get it. The crime is because of the government imposed black market.
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Old 12-09-2011, 21:43   #244
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Drugs are dirt cheap. You can buy heroin for only $10 a bag....you can buy 13 bags of heroin for $100, it is called a "jab." A single bag of heroin is something that would keep you or me high ALL day long because we don't have a tolerance to large amount of opiates. The more frequent we use, the higher our tolerance goes up. We go from needing $10 a day to $100 a day within just a few weeks. Heroin is the cheapest and purest it has ever been.

How is there now "wisdom" to decriminalizing drugs?
The reason that the addicts use so much is because I am willing to bet that it is a very diluted form of heroin cut with god knows what, therefore they have to shoot much more to acquire the same high that they need when compared to a purer form of heroin..

You know that the government hands out a powerful, addictive drug on a daily basis for little to no charge don't you? It's called methadone, and it can kill you with an OD even faster than heroin.. The government is replacing one addiction (heroin, opiates) with another in methadone..

The reason why they keep doing this is that when a heroin addict become addicted to the legal methadone then associated drug related crime drops.. Why? Because methadone is legal and government subsidized, and just as deadly as heroin if more than the proper dosage is given..

So what you are saying is that it's ok for the government to give out an addictive, deadly drug to people so long as they aren't using the other deadly addictive drug?

What's the difference between having a clinic that gives out supervised heroin dosages for people vs supervised methadone doses for people..

Amsterdam has designated places (many of them run by churches in fact) where addicts can use a heroin dosage and use clean needles to shoot up.. They have found that associated crimes have been reduced, and the numbers of people entering rehab has risen because of the fact that they have greater access and information to drug rehabs because of the clinics that give out heroin dosages..
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Old 12-09-2011, 21:53   #245
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What would your solution be? We have been waging this "war on drugs" now for well over 40 years and not a single dent has been made in reducing drug usage.. In fact drug usage, especially with prescription drugs has risen massively over that time period.. Every report commissioned by the government itself has come back to the same conclusion "current drug laws are ineffective, the war on drugs should be ended"..

It's like using a table-spoon to drain the ocean.. Waging a war on your own citizens for what is a medical problem is very bad..
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:08   #246
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You just don't get it. The crime is because of the government imposed black market.
Explain your logic behind that. There is some crime associated with the black market - but not your property crimes, thefts, and burglaries to obtain money to then obtain the drugs. Even without the black market, drugs will still cost money.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:37   #247
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Explain your logic behind that. There is some crime associated with the black market - but not your property crimes, thefts, and burglaries to obtain money to then obtain the drugs. Even without the black market, drugs will still cost money.
When is the last time you worked a crime where someone burglarized a house to but MD20/20 or a case of natty light?

How much crime was involved in alcohol during prohibition? How violent was the business.

A heroin addict can hold a job and function fairly normally in society if he doesn't have to spend all day chasing a fix.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:40   #248
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When is the last time you worked a crime where someone burglarized a house to but MD20/20 or a case of natty light?

How much crime was involved in alcohol during prohibition? How violent was the business.

A heroin addict can hold a job and function fairly normally in society if he doesn't have to spend all day chasing a fix.
What is your experience? Where do you get these statements from?

I don't think it's fair to compare alcohol and cannabis with heroin and cocaine. Just like we don't compare meth to caffeine.

Last edited by Sharky7; 12-10-2011 at 15:28..
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:48   #249
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Ryanbdawg.

The government does not give out methadone. Methadone clinics are for profit clinics that are approved for the use of opiate withdrawal. They are run by private companies and you provide a urine sample to show your dependence on opiates prior to approval. Methadone was never meant to be long term.

Methadone half life is much longer than heroin which allows only one dozing a day. In short term uses under medical watch, it can be effective in helping people get off heroin. I think suboxone is a much better drug though and should be used short term along with counseling.

Ususally starting doses are maxed at 40-60 of methadone, which is comparable of only 1-1.5 bags of Chicago heroin.

I enjoy intellectual conversation, but please do your research before posting. Don't post an argument and claim it as fact when it is not. How do I trust or believe anything else you write then?
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:52   #250
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What would your solution be? We have been waging this "war on drugs" now for well over 40 years and not a single dent has been made in reducing drug usage.. In fact drug usage, especially with prescription drugs has risen massively over that time period.. Every report commissioned by the government itself has come back to the same conclusion "current drug laws are ineffective, the war on drugs should be ended"..

It's like using a table-spoon to drain the ocean.. Waging a war on your own citizens for what is a medical problem is very bad..
Most drug cases are usually nolle pros already when the offender goes through drug court. Drug court involves treatment and is non criminal.

It takes an act of God to get prison time in chicago for drugs alone. It is already usually treated as a problem that someone needs help with.
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