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Old 12-05-2011, 19:51   #201
holesinpaper
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Originally Posted by ryanbdawg View Post
well you just answered you own questions about the effectiveness of drug prohibition..
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Old 12-06-2011, 00:45   #202
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Yea, you're also in the cesspool known as Chicago. I have worked several different branches of law enforcement in Louisiana all of my life, never anywhere else, and you're experiences don't exactly match up with mine. Many prostitutes chose that profession because they grew up in abusive homes, ran away, and needed an income. The drug problem came later after they were living on the streets, which is common.

By your account, you believe that most women become prostitutes because they are drug addicts...that isn't the case.
I truly question your experience in law enforcement. No offense.....but you don't really have a handle on it.

There's a lot of different sub cultures to prostitution. Some runaways fall in with the juvenile pimps and end up on a "tour" of the US. I've talked to those for hours on end as well.

The majority of your street level prostitutes are there because of their addictions. They end up on the street due to burning bridges with their family members, spending all their money, and general being a mope that is addicted to drugs. Prostitution is one of the last things people will turn to and the last thing they can sell. Once they pawn off all their family's property, catch too many cases thievin', they sell their bodies. It's not a glamorous life and no one would turn to it because they "needed income."

I got a regular who washes herself after every job with a garden hose behind a gas station. Goes to the hospital at least 2 or 3 times a month from doing speedballs that cause her seizures.

Last edited by Sharky7; 12-06-2011 at 01:06..
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Old 12-06-2011, 00:53   #203
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Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Well you just answered you own questions about the effectiveness of drug prohibition..

We all know the real reason why Chicago has such high crime rates, but it's not politically correct to say so, so I'll just keep my mouth shut..

Let's just say that rot and decay comes from the top in areas like that... Drug use is a symptom, not a cause.

If I grew up in such circumstances as many drug users in Chicago do, then I, you and many others would also probably wind up using hard drugs..
I said the "difference" - re-read the statement. Allowing responsible citizens to carry a firearm to protect themselves I believe will help reduce crime in Chicago. Introducing addictive drugs such as heroin and cocaine into local gas stations and convienent stores to be consumed by a larger amount of the population will just cause more crime related problems. Comparing the two is just ridiculous. Once you build your tolerance to heroin and need more and more bags each day to get euphoria - you still need to come up with more and more money. Addicts will always need money to buy their dope as their addiction takes hold. As I said earlier, the majority of our crime is already fueled by addicts attempting to get money to feed their addiction. Why create more addicts?

What do you expect out of the drug laws? You are never going to get 100% compliance....that was never what it was about or what is expected.

You can make seatbelt and speed limit laws and they will reduce traffic fatalities. Nothing is going to put a complete end to it though. You can eliminate all the traffic laws and see fatalities go up. You can also eliminate all of the drug laws and see more prevalant, easily accessable, and addiction go up. Drugs don't effect me - the social and criminals problems do though. Everyone has a choice on where they live - if people strive for no penalty drug use then they can move to a country to accomodate it.

Last edited by Sharky7; 12-06-2011 at 01:18..
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:12   #204
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Originally Posted by RyanBDawg View Post
Chicago also had a total gun ban for many, many years.. How did that work out? Well I'll bet there was zero gun crime in Chicago during the time of that gun ban, I mean it was the law and everything...
What are you trying to get at with statements like this? It just doesn't make any logical sense?

We have laws against theft and burglary too....It doesn't mean that we will never have a theft or burglary again in the United States. It is the law and everything...

Just because we have laws against drugs does not mean it will annihilate them off the Earth.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:00   #205
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Originally Posted by Sharky7 View Post
I said the "difference" - re-read the statement. Allowing responsible citizens to carry a firearm to protect themselves I believe will help reduce crime in Chicago. Introducing addictive drugs such as heroin and cocaine into local gas stations and convienent stores to be consumed by a larger amount of the population will just cause more crime related problems. Comparing the two is just ridiculous. Once you build your tolerance to heroin and need more and more bags each day to get euphoria - you still need to come up with more and more money. Addicts will always need money to buy their dope as their addiction takes hold. As I said earlier, the majority of our crime is already fueled by addicts attempting to get money to feed their addiction. Why create more addicts?

What do you expect out of the drug laws? You are never going to get 100% compliance....that was never what it was about or what is expected.
Here is a question I like to ask people who retort back with this "why do you want to create more drug addicts" line..

If heroin was legal, would you use heroin? No? Yea, neither would the vast majority of people. The reason people steal, rob, etc to get money for drugs is due to the fact that they are illegal, therefore the price is very high and the demand must be met by criminal gangs which are violent themselves.. You know kinda like prohibition, the price of alcohol went up very high because it was illegal, there still was a demand for alcohol that was therefore met by criminal gangs who caused massive amounts of violence..

The war on drugs was never about eliminating drugs.. It's about power and money..

Or do you forget Iran Contra? Do you forget how much drugs the CIA put on the streets of this country to fund its black ops?

Do you forget how many guns and god knows what else our government sold to cartels?

Sorry but as a cop you work for the government, and the government has a vested interest in keeping the sham going..

There are a number of border agents and other law enforcement figures who are currently suing the government because they expressed their opinion that drug de-criminalization would lead to less violence along the border and in Mexico, and we're fired for expression this opinion to co-workers..

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lapl...ar-mexico.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/us...pagewanted=all

Yea, the government will throw your first amendment rights out the window when it comes to any criticizing of their idiotic, evil policies..
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Last edited by RyanBDawg; 12-06-2011 at 06:24..
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:04   #206
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What are you trying to get at with statements like this? It just doesn't make any logical sense?

We have laws against theft and burglary too....It doesn't mean that we will never have a theft or burglary again in the United States. It is the law and everything...

Just because we have laws against drugs does not mean it will annihilate them off the Earth.
No, because throughout history drugs, mind altering substances, whatever you want to call them have been one of the driving factors to mankind, right up there with food and shelter.. There is no culture on earth which does not have a history of the use of mind altering substances..


How one mammal that will live for 7 or 8 decades can tell another mammal that they will be thrown in a cage for years because they put something in their body is, frankly, unacceptable, wrong, evil, wicked and every other negative I can think to describe it..

If someone hurts someone, steals, etc then they should be punished.. But the truth of the matter is that a huge number of people who go through the "legal system" every year are arrested for simply possessing drugs.. Then they have to pay court costs, fines, etc.. It's a money making racket..
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Last edited by RyanBDawg; 12-06-2011 at 02:17..
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:06   #207
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Originally Posted by Sharky7 View Post
I said the "difference" - re-read the statement. Allowing responsible citizens to carry a firearm to protect themselves I believe will help reduce crime in Chicago. Introducing addictive drugs such as heroin and cocaine into local gas stations and convienent stores to be consumed by a larger amount of the population will just cause more crime related problems. Comparing the two is just ridiculous. Once you build your tolerance to heroin and need more and more bags each day to get euphoria - you still need to come up with more and more money. Addicts will always need money to buy their dope as their addiction takes hold. As I said earlier, the majority of our crime is already fueled by addicts attempting to get money to feed their addiction. Why create more addicts?

What do you expect out of the drug laws? You are never going to get 100% compliance....that was never what it was about or what is expected.

You can make seatbelt and speed limit laws and they will reduce traffic fatalities. Nothing is going to put a complete end to it though. You can eliminate all the traffic laws and see fatalities go up. You can also eliminate all of the drug laws and see more prevalant, easily accessable, and addiction go up. Drugs don't effect me - the social and criminals problems do though. Everyone has a choice on where they live - if people strive for no penalty drug use then they can move to a country to accomodate it.
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, eh? Perspectives like this are truly frightening, not only because of the anti-American sentiments but also because of their statement on the effectiveness American public school system.

How about this?

My citizenship is as valid as yours. I demand the liberty I was promised. I demand that jackbooted thugs like Chicago cops stop enforcing unconstitutional laws. If you don't like it you're welcome to leave and find a country that welcomes your support of tyranny. There are lots of them.
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Last edited by certifiedfunds; 12-06-2011 at 06:08..
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:36   #208
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Not the sharpest tool in the shed, eh? Perspectives like this are truly frightening, not only because of the anti-American sentiments but also because of their statement on the effectiveness American public school system.

How about this?

My citizenship is as valid as yours. I demand the liberty I was promised. I demand that jackbooted thugs like Chicago cops stop enforcing unconstitutional laws. If you don't like it you're welcome to leave and find a country that welcomes your support of tyranny. There are lots of them.
Some people do not, and never will see how "free" we really are. Those people are really nothing more than useful idiots to the government, IMO.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:09   #209
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You can also eliminate all of the drug laws and see more prevalant, easily accessable, and addiction go up.
Eliminate all of the drug laws? Where do you get the idea that legalization means such a silly thing?

Alcohol is legal, yet we have many laws about where and when it can be consumed and purchased. What you are suggesting is a false dichotomy.

Other countries that have decriminilized drug use have actually seen a reduction in addiction and related crimes.

Your assumption that things would get worse is unfounded.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:29   #210
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I can't really say how this will turn out but I really believe the stigma about drugs will disappear causing more people to try it that normally would not. I'm against more intoxicated people on the road. Time will tell.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:50   #211
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What we need to crack down on, is the Dr.s that write scripts for everyone with a fart crosswise.
The DEA is cracking down on those doctors...

There are people who genuinely need Schedule II prescriptions and the drug dealing doctors that write a script to anyone with a scratch are on their way to losing their license.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:53   #212
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I can't really say how this will turn out but I really believe the stigma about drugs will disappear causing more people to try it that normally would not. I'm against more intoxicated people on the road. Time will tell.
I doubt that.

I don't drink or use illegal drugs.

And if someone is DUI then throw the book at them the first time,not give them 3,4,5 or more chances...
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:32   #213
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The DEA is cracking down on those doctors...

There are people who genuinely need Schedule II prescriptions and the drug dealing doctors that write a script to anyone with a scratch are on their way to losing their license.
I have scrips for my back injury and nerve damage in my feet. Getting pain killers is getting to be almost comical with all the hoops to jump through. The price of those hoops is not funny at all though. I have to get a piss test every 6 months now.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:05   #214
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Decriminalization of drugs will not work until the public in general can recognize that people are responsible for the decisions they make, and that people have to live with the consequences of those decisions.

I.E., society in general needs to be able to see a strung-out addict lying face-down on the sidewalk and simply "step over" him, knowing that he's in that situation due to his own decisions, and not "feel the need" to get him some kind of help. Until society can do that and let the addict fail of his own accord, then legalization of drugs will only suck us further down the road to socialism and socialized medicine.

It's because of this socialist nanny-state mentality that we are not ready for the greater responsibility that comes with greater freedom.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:17   #215
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The war on criminals doesn't work so well either but you must always continue to fight. To say we should end the war on drugs is like saying we just lay down and give up.

Yea, because giving up on the war on alcohol in the early 1900's was such a bad idea.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:27   #216
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Continue fighting and think of ways to achieve better gains for our efforts. I would say stiffer sentences would be a good start.

So you're in favor of continuing something that's clearly a waste of money and is failing? They've already tried stiffer sentences, yet you want to impose this "zero tolerance" mentality again?

You're hypocritical, and why I say this is because you sound just like your liberal counter-parts that try to impose stricter gun control laws on us, even though we all know they do not and will not work.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:39   #217
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I think an interesting aspect of this will be the inevitable clash between medical pot users who are also gun owners. Currently, guns and pot don't mix in the eyes of Federal law. What happens when medical pot users obeying state laws are denied their second amendment rights? Can of complicated worms.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:55   #218
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Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, eh? Perspectives like this are truly frightening, not only because of the anti-American sentiments but also because of their statement on the effectiveness American public school system.

How about this?

My citizenship is as valid as yours. I demand the liberty I was promised. I demand that jackbooted thugs like Chicago cops stop enforcing unconstitutional laws. If you don't like it you're welcome to leave and find a country that welcomes your support of tyranny. There are lots of them.
Just because someone disagrees with you or has a different view point does not mean they are not "sharp." Personal attacks instead of intelligent rebuttals or conversations are actually obvious signs of those who struggle to communicate or don't have the intelligent thoughts to communicate. Lighten up. No need to get upset - just collect your thoughts and write a response with your ideas.

It's also a common theme when people don't agree with a law to claim it is "unconstitutional." You remind me of someone who thinks they can do anything they want and yell "It's a free country" or "Freedom of speech." There are still laws we must all follow. "Liberty" does not mean you have unlimited rights to do whatever it is you want. You still live in a society and there are laws and rules in effect.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:06   #219
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I have scrips for my back injury and nerve damage in my feet. Getting pain killers is getting to be almost comical with all the hoops to jump through. The price of those hoops is not funny at all though. I have to get a piss test every 6 months now.
I hear ya' I get Schedule II scripts from my pain block clinic and every three months have to give a urine sample.
Mine are for my back and shoulder.Within the next 6 months I'm getting a new shoulder...I dread it but I need it.

Oxycontin and Percocet do nada for me so I'm on Fentanyl more specifically Fentora.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:26   #220
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I hear ya' I get Schedule II scripts from my pain block clinic and every three months have to give a urine sample.
Mine are for my back and shoulder.Within the next 6 months I'm getting a new shoulder...I dread it but I need it.

Oxycontin and Percocet do nada for me so I'm on Fentanyl more specifically Fentora.
Yeah, I've had lots of people tell me that THC would work better, be less damaging to my body, and have less side effects. Not an option of course. I'm pretty concerned about what I am going to do when the pain killers start to destroy my liver. I'm on hydrocodone apap.

Good luck with the shoulder, sounds VERY painful.

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