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Old 12-04-2011, 09:04   #26
Danny Reid
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Essentially, you can substitute drugs with any other enterprise people want to legalize. The underground element will still always exist.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:07   #27
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Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
The war on criminals doesn't work so well either but you must always continue to fight. To say we should end the war on drugs is like saying we just lay down and give up.
So you think we should just continue on the same path? Or should we do something different, still maintaining the war on drugs? What do you think we should do?
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:17   #28
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To me, the was on drugs has become a war on the American people and the US Constitution.
Quoted for truth.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:19   #29
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Essentially, you can substitute drugs with any other enterprise people want to legalize. The underground element will still always exist.
Much fail here.

Only the government can create a black market.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:20   #30
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If you fabricate a cause with sufficient nobility or fear the American people will tolerate anything.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:21   #31
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No fail at all. Legalize em and see what happens.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:26   #32
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At least half of the population of our prisons are there for non-violent drug crimes, and violent felons are being given early release to make room for more.
70% of prisoners test positive for once a week or greater drug use when they first go in.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:27   #33
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No fail at all. Legalize em and see what happens.
Cool. Back it up. How does a black market "underground" develop absent government intervention?
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:29   #34
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De-criminalize drug use across the board and stop making total abstinence a condition for employment, health care, and social services in the form of mandatory drug testing, for starters. Recognize the difference between the recreational pot smoker and the daily heroin addict. Stop treating a voluntary behavior as both a lifelong disease and a criminal activity. Stop lying to children in an attempt to scare them into adopting a totally-abstinent lifestyle. Recognize, at a federal level, the genuine medicinal applications of marijuana. Admit and accept as a society that a small percentage of that society is going to act irresponsibly in their consumption of mind-altering substances, while the overwhelming majority of those who do so, do so moderately.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:32   #35
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The war on drugs was winning, which is why drugs, including pot and meth, moved down to Mexico. It's the lax immigration enforcement that allowed the Mexican cartels to gradually gain size and power. Of course, that's the real reason many people don't want illegal immigration made illegal again.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:33   #36
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I always get a good laugh when I read the local paper's story of a marijuana eradication operation.

99% of the time, it's a group of 10-12 overweight cops, all dressed in tactical gear with ATV's and a helicopter, posing with a small growing operation.

I would guess they spend thousands of dollars to wipe out a few plants.

This is a great example of waste.
Ha. Yep thats how they do it.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:46   #37
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Easy. Say we legalize it all tomorrow. In the libertarian world, that would be the end of it. That isn't reality, though. Hand in hand with legalization would come regulation. Color me dubious, but when I think of addicts the thought that they are the sort to operate within specific constraints seems a bit goofy.

Who knows? Maybe some crackheads and Meth users may be willing to go through proper channels in order to get their fix once it's legalized, but I kinda doubt it.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:52   #38
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I would consider decriminalization but as far as employment goes I think that should be left up to employers. Unless someone can show that the F16 driver does as well after testing positive. As far as medical use of marijuana if the guys at Brigham and Womens, Cleveland Clinic, Reagan, Bethesda, MGH etc. decide it has benefit, I agree.
The medical industry has a vested interest in keeping marijuana illegal.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:56   #39
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The war on drugs was winning, which is why drugs, including pot and meth, moved down to Mexico. It's the lax immigration enforcement that allowed the Mexican cartels to gradually gain size and power. Of course, that's the real reason many people don't want illegal immigration made illegal again.
I just don't know...

Consider this: A light plane with an unknown cargo leaves Cuba and heads toward the US. Do you think it'll make it to shore? A similar plane takes off from Mexico or Colombia. Somehow, it lands in Florida or Texas or Arizona and unloads its cargo to waiting accomplices. What's the difference? They're both invading. They're both, by law, a threat. But one has great propaganda value in its interdiction, and the other brings lots of money to all of the participants... the hunters and the hunted, both.

The war on drugs, like government subsidies to oil companies or factory farms is a redistribution of wealth from you and I to wealthy folks. It's theft. And I contend that the war on drugs is tearing this country apart. No other country in the world... not Red China, not Iran, not Myanmar... has as high a percentage of its own citizens in prison as the USA. And it's that silly war on drugs that's to blame. Time to end that war.

As an aside, I'm pleasantly surprised at the quality of thought and the tone of discourse in this thread. Once in a while, I get very tired of the unthinking and poorly expressed comments of some GTers. It makes me sad for the future of our country, if ignorance and bigotry are accepted as normal. But then I read through a thread like this, or one of the technical threads, and my faith is restored. Thanks, ya'll.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:00   #40
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Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
The war on criminals doesn't work so well either but you must always continue to fight. To say we should end the war on drugs is like saying we just lay down and give up.
Fighting an unwinnable war against the behaviors of a significant portion of a nation's own citizens is foolish. People are going to do what they do whether you give up, or not.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:00   #41
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No other country in the world... not Red China, not Iran, not Myanmar... has as high a percentage of its own citizens in prison as the USA.
In fairness, that's usually because they get a bullet or are beheaded. Just sayin.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:02   #42
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So you think we should just continue on the same path? Or should we do something different, still maintaining the war on drugs? What do you think we should do?
Continue fighting and think of ways to achieve better gains for our efforts. I would say stiffer sentences would be a good start.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:02   #43
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Fighting an unwinnable war against the behaviors of a significant portion of a nation's own citizens is foolish. People are going to do what they do whether you give up, or not.
Then why not murders and rapist go free also?
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:06   #44
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Google..."guns and weed: the road to freedom" and watch the 16 part movie on youtube. The War on Drugs is a cash cow for LEO and to halt the war...would put a bunch of folks out of jobs. Although the Gov. could tax and regulate it like Alcohol and still make money. Who knows?
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:09   #45
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I think the notion some Americans have that legalizing drugs would destroy our society is just way off. People who want drugs will get their hands on drugs. I would be willing to be that legalizing drugs would reduce the number of people who use it.

I think people are just afraid of change. I've never done any type of illegal drug and I dont even take pain killers. You could approach the drug problem the same way you can approach smoking. Just advertise against it.

The anti smoking advertising in the U.S. was very successful. I cam from Brazil and I've traveled other countries. The amount of people that smoke in the U.S. is very small compared to other countries. If people want to make bad choices let them, you cant change people they have to change on their own. Just make sure people are informed about the effects of drugs.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:13   #46
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Then why not murders and rapist go free also?
I would say because people who murder and rape are infringing on other peoples rights and well being. People who do drugs in my opinion are not, they are just harming themselves.

Sure you can make an argument that drugs are bad for our society and do harm other people but whether it is legal or illegal doesn't change that fact.

I think drugs are closer related to alcohol than they are to rapes and murder. You can live with alcohol being legal right?

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Old 12-04-2011, 10:24   #47
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Easy. Say we legalize it all tomorrow. In the libertarian world, that would be the end of it. That isn't reality, though. Hand in hand with legalization would come regulation. Color me dubious, but when I think of addicts the thought that they are the sort to operate within specific constraints seems a bit goofy.

Who knows? Maybe some crackheads and Meth users may be willing to go through proper channels in order to get their fix once it's legalized, but I kinda doubt it.
Oh. I see. Are regulations government involvement?

Lemme ask you though: how many illegal speakeasy joints are you aware of? Is bootlegging enough of a problem today to even register on anyone's priority list?

Speaking of prohibition, can you explain to me why the federal government needed a constitutional amendment to criminalize booze but doesn't need one to criminalize other drugs or marijuana ?
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:28   #48
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Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
Then why not murders and rapist go free also?
They are not a significant part of the population and all the rest of the population wants them in jail. Using illegal drugs is closer to using caffeine and alcohol, than it is to murder and rape.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:29   #49
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Then why not murders and rapist go free also?
If you are unable to distinguish between murder, rape and smoking a joint or selling a dime bag, there isn't much for me to tell you.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:31   #50
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Continue fighting and think of ways to achieve better gains for our efforts. I would say stiffer sentences would be a good start.
It would drive up the price with the risk. Maybe it would have the intended effect. Maybe something worse.
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For too long people have said "screw NY, IL, etc" or "that'll never happen here." Yes, it will eventually. If we dont start standing up together now, it will never stop.-ilgunguygt
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