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Old 12-04-2011, 21:40   #126
chewybaca67
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Oh yeah, and these other countries that do have drugs legalized are like the size of the State I live in without such a diverse and classist population. Pretty soon all our hard earned tax money will go to Medicaid to pay for some lame ass's addiction.
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Old 12-04-2011, 21:44   #127
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Pretty soon all our hard earned tax money will go to Medicaid to pay for some lame ass's addiction.
You will be paying less than what you pay to fund the WoD.
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Old 12-04-2011, 22:09   #128
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Oh yeah, and these other countries that do have drugs legalized are like the size of the State I live in without such a diverse and classist population. Pretty soon all our hard earned tax money will go to Medicaid to pay for some lame ass's addiction.
So end Medicaid.
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Old 12-04-2011, 22:33   #129
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So end Medicaid.
As pleasing as that sounds, it would never be as easy as it sounds. But at least it could be more selective. And I doubt that it would lesson the cost of taxes much. Any profits would likely get sucked in fight the newer war on drugs. Maybe. I don't use any illicit drugs and think that weed is far less criminal than all the other stuff out there. DUI's on weed are still DUE's though. What ever the decision and outcome, I''l be curious to see what happens.
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Old 12-04-2011, 22:43   #130
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As it stands now, until my 65th birthday I will be drug tested regularly by employers/FAA and I have absolutely no problem with that. That being said, I truly believe there is no reason whatsoever to continue to prohibit marijuana and not only decriminalization but actual legalization should occur. Make it legal and tax it at a rate of 200%-300%. Use tax to reduce the margins and commercialize it. Use the revenue for a whole lot of things. This would also result in a loss of income for criminal enterprizes. Win win win.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:13   #131
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Paternalistic laws against possession and use have no place in a country that claims to be free.
Drug users should be punished because they are nothing more then a pathetic parasite that destroys everything it touches IMO,
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:35   #132
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So end Medicaid.
Agreed once again. Or at least severely cut it back. The "we have to fight drugs because of the public healthcare ccost" is an absolutely BS argument. We voluntarily decided to pay for the healthcare and now we use that as a justification for the WoD? The same argument is used for motorcycle helmet laws, "we are justified in taking away your freedom, because we chose to pay for medical care for some people."
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:38   #133
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Drug users should be punished because they are nothing more then a pathetic parasite that destroys everything it touches IMO,
I agree. That may surprise you, if you don't think hard about what I wrote. I don't like drug users and I don't use drugs. However, the best way to punish only those who deserve it is to legalize drugs and let them punish themselves. That way also hurts non-drug users the least and eliminates the violant crime of the drug black market, that spills over onto the rest of us.

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Whpo took over your computer. 1st you agree with me and then you write something that I agree with. This can't be Bren.

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It only seems that way, because I didn't point out things like liberals eliminating themselves from politics through their drug use, or how I would take away any public healthcare funding for drug related conditions, etc.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:40   #134
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Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
Drug users should be punished because they are nothing more then a pathetic parasite that destroys everything it touches IMO,
I take it you never drink coffee, beer, nicotine, opiate prescription medications, etc..

I also take it that you never knew anyone in your life that struggled with addiction..

Tell me what kills more people every year, alcohol or every other drug combined..

Frankly you make me sick.. I think dumb-ass people who make dumb-ass comments should be punished too.. But alas, its not illegal to be an ignorant jerk-off..
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:50   #135
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Drug users should be punished because they are nothing more then a pathetic parasite that destroys everything it touches IMO,
Some of them are top-level contributors to society. Why do you want to punish them?
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:51   #136
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Some of them are top-level contributors to society. Why do you want to punish them?
Yea, like the last two Presidents (ok bad example.. but they both used to do blow, weed, and booze back in the day)

And Clinton didn't "inhale"

Steve Jobs also cited dropping acid as one of the best decisions of his life, and so on and so forth..

Humans have been doing drugs since before recorded history..

I am more worried about the ones that take the attitude of ole corncob up my butt.. Either they are a self-hating drug addict, or they are just a bad person..
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:58   #137
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Yea, like the last two Presidents (ok bad example.. but they both used to do blow, weed, and booze back in the day)

And Clinton didn't "inhale"

Steve Jobs also cited dropping acid as one of the best decisions of his life, and so on and so forth..

Humans have been doing drugs since before recorded history..

I am more worried about the ones that take the attitude of ole corncob up my butt.. Either they are a self-hating drug addict, or they are just a bad person..
I've listed here before the uber successful marijuana users I am personally friends with. MD, EE with MBA, owns a chain of assisted living centers across the southeast....those types.....For the life of me I just can't figure out what they need to be punished for?

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Old 12-05-2011, 05:04   #138
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I've listed here before the uber successful marijuana users I am personally friends with. MD, EE with MBA, owns a chain of assisted living centers across the southeast....those types.....For the life of me I just can't figure out what they need to be punished for?
Yea, and every alcohol commercial focuses on the fact that if you drink this whiskey you are refined and intelligent, if you drink this beer you are fun and outgoing, the life of the party. If you drink corona then you are looking for relaxation. If you drink this vodka you are stylish and independent..

Every person in America from the age of 5 on sees these commercials, yet that is perfectly fine. But the plant that has existed since before humans ever even came on the scene.. Nope, evil, people who use it are evil, they will smoke weed once and then bam, the next day they will be a murdering, thieving junkies..

I will never understand how people's brains work.. Its unbelievable to me.

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Old 12-05-2011, 05:04   #139
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If the feds decide to make money off of it, you can believe the "war on drugs" will be over with very quickly. Tax it like tobacco and alcohol, problem solved. But they won't end it because millions of narc agents and such would lose their jobs, not to mention it would cause public uproar.

Why...

Because having a "war on drugs" makes for good PR...it's gives the general public the idea that we're actually accomplishing something.

Why...

Because they named it perfectly to get the sheeple to support it. A "war". Anytime you say the word "war" people feed into it because they automatically think that anything we declare war on is bad. So, a "war" on drugs means any drug that's deemed illegal by the .gov is the enemy.

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Old 12-05-2011, 05:17   #140
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I never looked it that way before. Very interesting.


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If the feds decide to make money off of it, you can believe the "war on drugs" will be over with very quickly. Tax it like tobacco and alcohol, problem solved. But they won't end it because millions of narc agents and such would lose their jobs, not to mention it would cause public uproar.

Why...

Because having a "war on drugs" makes for good PR...it's gives the general public the idea that we're actually accomplishing something.

Why...

Because they named it perfectly to get the sheeple to support it. A "war". Anytime you say the word "war" people feed into it because they automatically think that anything we declare war on is bad. So, a "war" on drugs means any drug that deemed illegal by the .gov is the enemy.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:27   #141
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Seriously? Do you live in a cave?

Get pulled over with any "suspicious" amount of cash, and the LEO can seize it and use it. You do not necessarily have any recourse to get it back -- no due process.

There have been countless cases. Google it yourself, or start by searching riddit, boingboing or digg to save some time.

War on Drugs is about power, control, and money -- it's not actually about drugs per say (imho).

No I do not live in a cave. However, as little as I get out, I also do not live solely on the internet. Here, seizure of cash or other property is governed by FSS 896 FSS 560 et. al. and Title 31. Before the cash or other property is forfeited an Adverserial Preliminary Hearing must be held within ten days and a Complaint/Petition for Forfeiture must be filed within 45 days. There are some other requirements also. Long before the cash or other property is actually forfeited to the state and/or federal government, (and it tends to not be used directly by the LEOs that seized it but rather goes into trust funds which are also controlled by statute) attorneys at a couple different levels and at least a couple court hearings occur. A nexus between the cash or other property and felony activity must be established. To suggest there is no recourse or no due process sounds very much like common internet "wisdom" however in the real world it works just a touch differently. Unless the officer committed a crime and stole the money, when someone tells you the police took their money for no reason, a substantial part of the story is missing.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:44   #142
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Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
Drug users should be punished because they are nothing more then a pathetic parasite that destroys everything it touches IMO,
A man like this cannot be reasoned with, because he is not in touch with reason and reality.

Its no different than believing that only violent thugs own guns. Both claims are objectively false.

Last edited by Lampshade; 12-05-2011 at 06:49..
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:59   #143
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I agree.It only seems that way, because I didn't point out things like liberals eliminating themselves from politics through their drug use, or how I would take away any public healthcare funding for drug related conditions, etc.
Once, again, see I agree.

What I woulddo, is anyone over 18 legalize drugs but with the condition if they OD, they diein the street unless they can pay for their hospital care. They commit crimes while on drugs, then it would be treated like committing a small crime with firearms, what may go from stealing $20 an a ticket is now an automatic felony with a minimum sentence because drugs were involved.

Get caught knowingly selling drugs to someone under 18, get a nice drug injection.

Tax the stuff.

As much as I don't believe in the drug use, taxing and regulating it is the way to go. When someone has health issue because of their drug use it is their responsibility to pay or no treatment.

-Dana
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:07   #144
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I agree
It only seems that way, because I didn't point out things like liberals eliminating themselves from politics through their drug use, or how I would take away any public healthcare funding for drug related conditions, etc.
One of the things that REALLY screwed this country up has been eluded to in this thread but no said outright.

At somepoint, emergency medicalcare became a RIGHT. Emergency care cannit refuse treatment based upon payment. It even because a right for foriegn nationals who are not in the country legally.

What has happened is that now when care is needed, regardless if it is a real emergency or not, one simply goes to the emergency room. Since the flu is now an emergency, they have to at least see the patient.

This moves straight into the drug related world. Have drug issues, its now an emergency.

Why is it MY problem to pay for SOMEONE ELSES bad decisions?

There has been thread after thread about how someone else should pay for others poor decisions. A few days a ago a thread saying I should pay to insure myself against someone elses poor driving because they can not afford to replace a mercedes they run into (I don't have a M-B btw).

Now, I should pay for drug re-hab for people.

The amount of money I pay out is amazing and what do I get for it? Hell, I can't even get smooth streets to drive on...

-Dana
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:10   #145
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Originally Posted by M&P Shooter View Post
Drug users should be punished because they are nothing more then a pathetic parasite that destroys everything it [they] touches IMO.,
Says the uneducated man, who can't use proper grammar and punctuation.

You must be on drugs. Or you're just a useless drag on the productive, educated members of society.

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Old 12-05-2011, 12:21   #146
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Now, I should pay for drug re-hab for people.

The amount of money I pay out is amazing and what do I get for it? Hell, I can't even get smooth streets to drive on...

-Dana
You're right.

It makes way more sense to spend all that money just shoving them into cells. That produces long term positive changes (in the drug addicts, and society).

As a bonus, it's much cheaper to fund the interdiction/enforcement/court/prison system than anything that involves real rehab for drug abusers.

(That was sarcasm, in case you missed it)

While I agree society should not pay for drug addict rehabilitation, it's stupid to pay more for the current incarceration 'solution' because we are irrationally adhering to a failed battle plan.

Assuming we'll always be forced to pay one way or another, pick something that maximizes freedom and also happens to cost less.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:28   #147
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No I do not live in a cave. However, as little as I get out, I also do not live solely on the internet. Here, seizure of cash or other property is governed by FSS 896 FSS 560 et. al. and Title 31. Before the cash or other property is forfeited an Adverserial Preliminary Hearing must be held within ten days and a Complaint/Petition for Forfeiture must be filed within 45 days. There are some other requirements also. Long before the cash or other property is actually forfeited to the state and/or federal government, (and it tends to not be used directly by the LEOs that seized it but rather goes into trust funds which are also controlled by statute) attorneys at a couple different levels and at least a couple court hearings occur. A nexus between the cash or other property and felony activity must be established. To suggest there is no recourse or no due process sounds very much like common internet "wisdom" however in the real world it works just a touch differently. Unless the officer committed a crime and stole the money, when someone tells you the police took their money for no reason, a substantial part of the story is missing.
You're stuck in 1977.

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/14...off-drug-trade

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laws that let officers pull driver over looking for cash. Those officers do not even have to file criminal charges against a person to take his/her money.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Forfeiture

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"Administrative forfeiture is the process by which property may be forfeited to the United States without judicial involvement. Federal seizing agencies perform administrative forfeitures. Seizures must be based on probable cause. The authority for a seizing agency to start an administrative forfeiture action is found in 19 U.S.C. § 1607.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...65073870.html?

Quote:
He is one among thousands of Americans in recent decades who have had a jarring introduction to the federal system of asset seizure. Some 400 federal statutes—a near-doubling, by one count, since the 1990
2x more statues added in 20 years -- all expanding the government's ability to seize assets. Yeah, great idea that WoD.

I could go on with examples nearly forever.

Last edited by holesinpaper; 12-05-2011 at 12:43..
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:31   #148
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I am more worried about the ones that take the attitude of ole corncob up my butt.. Either they are a self-hating drug addict, or they are just a bad person..
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:41   #149
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Here, seizure of cash or other property is governed by FSS 896 FSS 560 et. al. and Title 31. Before the cash or other property is forfeited an Adverserial Preliminary Hearing must be held within ten days and a Complaint/Petition for Forfeiture must be filed within 45 days. There are some other requirements also. Long before the cash or other property is actually forfeited to the state and/or federal government, (and it tends to not be used directly by the LEOs that seized it but rather goes into trust funds which are also controlled by statute) attorneys at a couple different levels and at least a couple court hearings occur. A nexus between the cash or other property and felony activity must be established. To suggest there is no recourse or no due process sounds very much like common internet "wisdom" however in the real world it works just a touch differently.
http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories...-money-seizure

Quote:
Police never held a news conference or issued a news release on the seizure, nor would they elaborate on it when asked after word leaked out of the police department days later. To learn more, the Yakima Herald-Republic filed a public records request.


Officials now say they kept the case under wraps in part out of fear that someone would file a bogus claim for the cash that could have tied the money up in court for years
Ahh yes, the police keep the money secret until after the deadline has passed (for claiming it) just so they can up the odds of keeping it. Genius!

http://union-bulletin.com/stories/20...izure-decision
Quote:
10 percent of the cash will go to the state under a requirement of state law and the rest will be used by the city for the war on drugs.
90% of the seized cash goes directly to police and city coffers. You are wrong about so much.

Last edited by holesinpaper; 12-05-2011 at 12:41..
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Old 12-05-2011, 13:38   #150
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You're right.

It makes way more sense to spend all that money just shoving them into cells. That produces long term positive changes (in the drug addicts, and society).

As a bonus, it's much cheaper to fund the interdiction/enforcement/court/prison system than anything that involves real rehab for drug abusers.

(That was sarcasm, in case you missed it)

While I agree society should not pay for drug addict rehabilitation, it's stupid to pay more for the current incarceration 'solution' because we are irrationally adhering to a failed battle plan.

Assuming we'll always be forced to pay one way or another, pick something that maximizes freedom and also happens to cost less.
You missed my point. I said earlier that I think the drug addicts should be able to have their drugs but I shouldn't be required to pay for their medical costs. If the commit a crime (i.e. robbery) on drugs then it should be do not pass go. Let them have them. But if they commit a crime while on the drugs or because of the drugs, then the wrath of society should be placed on them.

My point is I pay lot of taxes and get very little from it. I shouldn't be paying for yet another program that is based upon another persons actions.

-Dana
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