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Old 12-11-2011, 13:11   #1
JimIsland
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well, now I know what a glock smile is :(

Went the range yesterday and tried some DT ammo (165 grain hollow points) The box said 1400 FPS but I'm not sure how accurate that is. Anyway, I put about 10 rounds through my stock Gen2 G20 and after retrieving my casings, found smiley's on all of them and the primers were blown out on all but 2.

I've read that this ammo is considered "warm". Had I known the outcome, obviously I would have taken a reading after a round or two. Will a stiffer recoil spring help out here or do I need an aftermarket barrel as well?

I don't want to spend a lot of coin on an old gun that runs great with Georgia Arms, federal, Hornandy, etc.. I would rather take that money and put it towards a new Gen 3 or hopefully soon a Gen 4. Thoughts and/or suggestions? Thank you and I am going to attempt to attach pics. Last time I tried it said "exceeded quota size" ???

Last edited by JimIsland; 12-11-2011 at 14:24.. Reason: 1400 fps corrected from 1600
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Old 12-11-2011, 13:23   #2
glock20c10mm
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I'm waiting to see the pics to see what you mean when you say; "...primers were blown out..."
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Old 12-11-2011, 13:34   #3
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Originally Posted by glock20c10mm View Post
I'm waiting to see the pics to see what you mean when you say; "...primers were blown out..."
Sending PM. Thanks
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Old 12-11-2011, 15:09   #4
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When or has was the recoil spring changed? I would invest in a new recoil spring of possibly extra power? Should help maintain lock up a little longer, provided the locking block is not worn. Keeping the slide locked a tad longer may help keep primers inside and lessen the smiles, however a barrel with better chamber support is what will support the casing better.

Your barrel and slide may be unlocking too early for the amout of impulse you are seeing with that ammo leading to smiles.
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Old 12-11-2011, 15:31   #5
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Primers should not be blowing out. That's a sign of over pressure ammunition.
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Old 12-11-2011, 15:44   #6
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While shootin some underwood 180gr fmj's a few days ago, I found one case with the primer missing from it while I was picking up my brass. No glocksmile or bulge since I was using my LWD barrel, which has terrific support, but it causes feeding issues...oh well, guess I cant have my cake and eat it too...seriously tho, whats the point of having cake if you cant eat it?
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Old 12-11-2011, 15:54   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimIsland View Post
Sending PM. Thanks
Thanks for allowing me to share the pics you send in the email.

Here are pics of the brass fired from Jim's G20 Gen 2 -

The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring

First, I would say that at least some Generation 2 G20s were known for having less chamber support than current production models.

Second, I would say over the course of Double Tap 10mm history there have been inconsistencies with their ammo. In the past we used to get advertised velocity, then later not even close. Last chronograph results of the DT 10mm 165gr Gold Dot loads (which they don't make anymore) averaged 1254fps (they were advertised at 1400fps), and the current DT 10mm 165gr Golden Sabers averaged 1240fps (they are advertised at 1400fps). Then there are others who still claim to get much closer to DT box flap claims. Bottom line, I don't what kind of quality control Mike McNett is running over at Double Tap, but my faith in it, for one, is bigtime lacking. So who knows if you got hotter or weaker stuff, and then in possible conjunction with a Gen 2 G20 that may not have the chamber support we've currently grown accustomed to.

In regard to DT ammo, here's another post put up a mere 13 days ago -
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKM View Post
After a Double Tap 10mm blew in half in my brand new Kimber, locking up the pistol and rendering me unarmed, I ran the rest through my 610.

I sent the case and the rest of the box to Mike McNett and have never ever heard back from him again.

Not even a scanned finger.

Nothing.

Guess what I have ordered from him since?
And then add in the possibility of what _The_Shadow pointed out with your "older" (don't know what round count may be through it) Gen 2 G20 maybe having a weak recoil spring...and things just start looking possibly exponentially reasoned out.

Jim, following is a pic of my G29 chamber support. How does your Gen 2 G20 compare with a round dropped in the tube for comparison? Any discernable differences?

The 10 Ring

The 10 Ring
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Old 12-11-2011, 15:55   #8
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Originally Posted by freakshow10mm View Post
Primers should not be blowing out. That's a sign of over pressure ammunition.
I was thinking the same. I've had the smilies and some flattened primers from DT, but never had a primer come out of the case or even be loose.
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Old 12-11-2011, 16:01   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arushus View Post
While shootin some underwood 180gr fmj's a few days ago, I found one case with the primer missing from it while I was picking up my brass.
I been wondering just what brand of primers them ammo makers are using individually. I know Mike McNett was always big on CCI when he used to post around here, but that doesn't prove he uses the same in his factory ammo.

And then what primers is Underwood using?

Either way, I guess it doesn't matter, I would expect a little flattening from primers way before they're falling right out of the cases! Seems like way overpressure to me even if some Gen 2 G20 barrels didn't have the best case support compared to now in the Gen 3 G20.
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Old 12-11-2011, 16:12   #10
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Looking at the casing (stamp McNett) that is a very high pressure round with the primer blown and a casing tear starting, but also looking at the amount of smile from the lack of support tells me the cartridge was moving back out of the chamber while pressure was still very high. Primer being blown out may have unlocked the slide.

One other possibility is bullet setback on a round, which was already at the upper limits of performance (if not an over charge) and that would increase pressures aswell. More than one round did this so I lean more toward the next possibility.

That possibility is that there was an over charge of powder or even the wrong powder for the application!

These need to be investigated further to examine what is actually happening. Setting up a return to McNett might get you replacement ammo, but we may never learn the true cause...
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Old 12-11-2011, 16:18   #11
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I would not shoot any ammo that looked like that. Yikes. We have seen a couple of pics lately if gen 2s that are, I guess you would say cavernous, at the six o'clock position. But I am leaning toward this being an ammo problem. I agree with freakshow on this. Looks like a qc problem at McNett's.
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Old 12-11-2011, 16:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
These need to be investigated further to examine what is actually happening. Setting up a return to McNett might get you replacement ammo, but we may never learn the true cause...
And if you do set up the return, request "delivery confirmation" as I've notice numerous cases over the past couple years now of Double Tap 100% ignoring people's requests/concerns/issues. Don't know to what extent delivery confirmation would help anything in the end, I just feel like somehow it may be a step in the right direction.
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Old 12-11-2011, 17:02   #13
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And if you do set up the return, request "delivery confirmation" as I've notice numerous cases over the past couple years now of Double Tap 100% ignoring people's requests/concerns/issues. Don't know to what extent delivery confirmation would help anything in the end, I just feel like somehow it may be a step in the right direction.

Thanks a lot you guys. Had I not joined "10 Ring" :

a) I would not have been collecting my brass
B) Wouldn't have a clue what 'smile" is
c) I would have ignorantly shot the rest of the DT box and who knows what would have happened.

Sir, if you don't mind, I will take a pic of my support chamber after dinner.

Much appreciated guys.
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Old 12-11-2011, 17:45   #14
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Something is wrong there. You still should get a new recoil spring. I tend to buy extra power springs.
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Old 12-11-2011, 17:53   #15
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Jim, had not the primer blown out you might would have seen a case rupture that could have sent a high pressure jet of gases down the magazine well...this could wreck the magazine, frame and even your hand could be injured in this kind if over pressure situation. Glad you shared your experiences so others can learn from it.
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Old 12-11-2011, 17:58   #16
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Haven't we seen this before? A DoubleTap round that has a serious problem...

A lot of times, it's the gun, but something becomes fishy when multiple people begin having problems with a certain manufacturer of ammo.

I've shot a few of the 155grn SilverTips (rated at around 1425fps) I bought from SwampFox and the casings looked the same as Georgia Arms 180grn FMJ casings. No smiles or blown primers, just a tiny bulge.

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Old 12-11-2011, 19:17   #17
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I'm new to this and any form and have learned alot.I have a Gen 1 G20 I bought new in 91 and have never had a problem.I never saved or checked my brass so don't know what it looked like.I would guess the first 8 or 900 rounds were norma full strenth and then what I could find.I still shoot it now and then and have put some DT thru it, but never looked at my brass.I now save my brass and have 2000 so I will look at it.most of it is BVAC so not to hot. I shoot my Gen3 G20,G29 now and no trouble with eather,but here alot about chamber support.
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Old 12-11-2011, 19:29   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 fan View Post
I'm new to this and any form and have learned alot.I have a Gen 1 G20 I bought new in 91 and have never had a problem.I never saved or checked my brass so don't know what it looked like.I would guess the first 8 or 900 rounds were norma full strenth and then what I could find.I still shoot it now and then and have put some DT thru it, but never looked at my brass.I now save my brass and have 2000 so I will look at it.most of it is BVAC so not to hot. I shoot my Gen3 G20,G29 now and no trouble with eather,but here alot about chamber support.
Im going to assume you meant Gen 2?
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Old 12-11-2011, 19:52   #19
JimIsland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 fan View Post
I'm new to this and any form and have learned alot.I have a Gen 1 G20 I bought new in 91 and have never had a problem.I never saved or checked my brass so don't know what it looked like.I would guess the first 8 or 900 rounds were norma full strenth and then what I could find.I still shoot it now and then and have put some DT thru it, but never looked at my brass.I now save my brass and have 2000 so I will look at it.most of it is BVAC so not to hot. I shoot my Gen3 G20,G29 now and no trouble with eather,but here alot about chamber support.
Yup....same here. The snappiest ammo I've shot out of mine was some recently purchase G.A. hollow point 165g. I can't ever remember having a FTF or FTE with this remarkable gun. I think for the time being, I'll replace the recoil spring and revert to GA stuff.
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Old 12-11-2011, 20:54   #20
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Jim...glad you're ok....If you have any Double Tap left, I would wear a pair of leather gloves and safety glasses when shooting them. Seriously.

Also, get yourself at least a 20 pound spring. That weight will run anything. I had a Gen 2 Glock 2 back in 1992 or 1993 but I don't know how good the chamber support was. (I was reloading .45 back then, not 10MM) Sold that weapon in 1995.

I really think if you had a new spring and new barrel you would be fine with anything, including Buffalo Bore.

Be well, Bob
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