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Old 08-13-2012, 12:03   #561
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Originally Posted by Stevekozak View Post
Out of curiousity, what does being an Orange Hat signify?
Instructor In Training.

I spent most of yesterday first as a Range Safety Officer and then acting as the Line Boss.

Instructors In Training wear an orange hat (there are several progressions of this, same hat). Full Instructors wear a red hat. I think shoot bosses get a green hat? Don't remember above that.
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:14   #562
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Instructor In Training.

I spent most of yesterday first as a Range Safety Officer and then acting as the Line Boss.

Instructors In Training wear an orange hat (there are several progressions of this, same hat). Full Instructors wear a red hat. I think shoot bosses get a green hat? Don't remember above that.
That is interesting stuff. I may look into trying some Appleseed when I get moved if they have them in AZ. Looks like fun and useful stuff!
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:16   #563
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That is interesting stuff. I may look into trying some Appleseed when I get moved if they have them in AZ. Looks like fun and useful stuff!
http://www.appleseedinfo.org/search-...tename=Arizona
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Old 08-13-2012, 13:46   #564
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Thanks!
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Old 08-13-2012, 14:51   #565
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Warp,
Can you give me some pointers so I can earn the patch the next time?

I went to an Appleseed shoot this past spring. I shot a 192 several times but just couldn't seem to put it all together to get a better score. I'm planning on going back to the same place in Annapolis MD this fall and giving it another go.
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Old 08-13-2012, 15:19   #566
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Warp,
Can you give me some pointers so I can earn the patch the next time?

I went to an Appleseed shoot this past spring. I shot a 192 several times but just couldn't seem to put it all together to get a better score. I'm planning on going back to the same place in Annapolis MD this fall and giving it another go.
Can you post a target or two?

I think we might have several in this thread who can help you read your target.

What rifle/sling/sights/ammo were you using?

If you cannot post a picture of a target or two (would be most helpful)...where you were losing your points, and how (where did the rounds go)?
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Old 08-13-2012, 15:39   #567
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Can you post a target or two?

I think we might have several in this thread who can help you read your target.

What rifle/sling/sights/ammo were you using?

If you cannot post a picture of a target or two (would be most helpful)...where you were losing your points, and how (where did the rounds go)?
I'm not sure if I still have the targets but I'll look tonight.

I was using a standard LTR setup, Marlin 795, Tech Sights, GI sling. I was shooting CCI Mini Mags 40gr round nose. I was losing the most points on the sitting and prone positions. When rounds were off there didn't seem to be a consistent pattern so I assume the problem was me.
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Old 08-13-2012, 16:26   #568
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I'm not sure if I still have the targets but I'll look tonight.

I was using a standard LTR setup, Marlin 795, Tech Sights, GI sling. I was shooting CCI Mini Mags 40gr round nose. I was losing the most points on the sitting and prone positions. When rounds were off there didn't seem to be a consistent pattern so I assume the problem was me.
Try to find the targets.

How was your stage 4? That's the one shot entirely in prone on the four smallest targets on the bottom with a very long 5 minute time limit.

The two transition stages can be off due to simply not being smooth/comfortable doing things quickly (but without rushing). However, stage 4 should show whether or not you have the fundamentals down since you get all the time in the world.

Stage 4 is also worth double the points of any other individual stage, potentially 100 out of 250.
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Old 08-13-2012, 17:20   #569
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Try to find the targets.
I hope this works. Here's two representative targets. The first I didn't even get scored. The second is one of my 192 scores. I highlighted the hits in red because I wasn't sure if they'd all be visible in the pics.

Survival/Preparedness Forum

Survival/Preparedness Forum
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Old 08-13-2012, 17:33   #570
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Do you have an idea what is causing the horizontal stringing while prone? Top target 1st/2nd of stage 3 and 4th of stage 4; and bottom target 1st of stage 3.

Are you smoothly pressing the trigger with the pad of your finger, without dragging any of the rest of your finger on the stock, and following through? Follow through meaning holding the trigger in the rear/pressed position for a short count after the shot breaks (which should slightly surprise you) AND taking a mental snapshot of where the front site post was as the shot broke.


Did you call any of the flyers on either target? Some of those are off far enough that you can hopefully tell as the shot brakes that your front site is not where it needs to be.
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:38   #571
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I'd have to say that I don't know what causing any of my off shots and I didn't call any of the flyers. I believe my trigger control can use a lot of work but sometimes I can think I'm doing everything right and it's still a crappy shot.

Note, this was the first time I ever used a sling. My shooting history is pretty much plinking with the guys in the woods.

I'm looking at going back to an Appleseed in October but I'd like to hit the range and maybe work on just one maybe two things first. I know that I didn't give you a lot to go on but what one thing should I focus on?

BTW, thanks for the work you do with Appleseed. What a great group of people. I brought my wife and two female cousins last time. One had never shot any firearm before. We all really enjoyed the experience.

This time I think I'll try to talk some of my shooting buddies into going.
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:37   #572
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I'd have to say that I don't know what causing any of my off shots and I didn't call any of the flyers. I believe my trigger control can use a lot of work but sometimes I can think I'm doing everything right and it's still a crappy shot.

Note, this was the first time I ever used a sling. My shooting history is pretty much plinking with the guys in the woods.

I'm looking at going back to an Appleseed in October but I'd like to hit the range and maybe work on just one maybe two things first. I know that I didn't give you a lot to go on but what one thing should I focus on?

BTW, thanks for the work you do with Appleseed. What a great group of people. I brought my wife and two female cousins last time. One had never shot any firearm before. We all really enjoyed the experience.

This time I think I'll try to talk some of my shooting buddies into going.

Start by dry firing. Triple check that you have a safe rifle and remove all live ammunition from the room. Put a thumb tack or a little dot on the wall far enough away that it is a pretty small target.

Practice slinging up and getting into position. Practice transitioning from standing into seated and prone. Practice going back and forth between hasty and loop slings. Practice finding your NPOA (natural point of aim) and moving your NPOA onto the thumb tack. Use the drill to verify that your NPOA really is on that thumb tack. Then, once all of that is accomplished, you dry fire.

You might not even get to the dry fire part the first time or every time. But practice dry firing. Smooth trigger press, follow through, focus on that front site and take that mental snapshop asthe trigger breaks. Does the front site move at all when the trigger breaks? Practice rifleman's cadence (although you might have to simulate the trigger pull/firing part after the first one so that you can hold your position). Put up a second thumb tack and transition your NPOA from one to the other.


You can get an awful lot of practice in at home without firing a single shot. That's a great place to start...and you don't have to limit yourself to focusing on one thing.

Do the above a few days (or more) and see if you start to come up with the one or two things that are most problematic for you. Then, when you do go to the range, do a ball and dummy drill where either somebody else loads the mags for you or you load multiple mags with randomly located dummy rounds/snap caps and then mix the mags up so that you don't know when it will be a live round.

Do you have any questions about how to do any of the above? Or questions about what the terms mean, or any specific questions at all?
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:22   #573
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Warp, the only question I have is regarding "Practice rifleman's cadence". If they talked about it at my Appleseed I have forgotten. All the rest was clear and makes sense. Now that you've suggested it working on my NPOA makes a lot of sense. Excellent advice.

One more question about slinging up. How much tension should I have on the sling? Is it possible that too much tension can be a problem?
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Old 08-14-2012, 13:23   #574
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One more question about slinging up. How much tension should I have on the sling? Is it possible that too much tension can be a problem?
Depends on the rifle. And field vs. targets.

Targets on a fixed range.
I can sling up too tight with a standard AR with non-free float barrel and pull it down.

On a free float, I want it tight.

Field
There is a compromize between how tight I can sling and how quickly I can get into position slung up.

YMMV
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Old 08-14-2012, 14:17   #575
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Warp, the only question I have is regarding "Practice rifleman's cadence". If they talked about it at my Appleseed I have forgotten. All the rest was clear and makes sense. Now that you've suggested it working on my NPOA makes a lot of sense. Excellent advice.
Rifleman's cadence refers to your breathing cycle and respiratory pause. The six steps to firing the shot are:

1. Sight alignment
2. Sight picture
3. Respiratory pause
4. Focus. A: Focus on the tip of the front site (or your reticle), B: Focus mentally on keeping the site on the target
5. Smoothly press the trigger with control and without dragging wood
6. Follow through. A: Physically be keeping the trigger pressed, B: taking a mental snapshot


Respiratory pause dictates that you pause your breathing momentarily at the end of a regular exhalation. You then have maybe a few seconds (up to 3-5, say) to take the shot. If those few seconds go by and you haven't taken the shot, take another breathe and wait for the next pause at after exhaling before taking the shot. Don't let the trigger up during that breathe, keep it where it was and press some more to fire.

Now, Rifleman's cadence refers to firing one shot for every breathe, so one shot every 3-5 seconds on average. Once you take your time finding/setting/verifying your NPOA you need to trust your NPOA and not fuss the shot. Get all set up, find NPOA, check NPOA, and then take your shots in cadence. Always start with an inhalation. Inhale, exhale, pause, BANG...repeat.




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One more question about slinging up. How much tension should I have on the sling? Is it possible that too much tension can be a problem?
It shouldn't cut off circulation in your arm. As mentioned above the AR platform especially can have accuracy degradation issues from the torque on the barrel.

Key words often include: Snug, taught, or pluck-able. If it's tight enough that you don't have to use any muscle in your support arm (the one with the loop on it whose elbow is directly under the rifle) to hold the rifle up...it's tight enough. The point of the sling here is to support the rifle through sling tension, anchored above your bicep, rather than muscles, for stability purposes. You should be relaxed.
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Old 08-14-2012, 16:02   #576
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Has anyone done any 2012 Preps this week ?
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Old 08-14-2012, 16:07   #577
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Has anyone done any 2012 Preps this week ?
Is learning to shoot a rifle not a prep?

Skills > Stuff
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Old 08-14-2012, 16:15   #578
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It just seems this Thread has lost its focus.
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Old 08-14-2012, 17:49   #579
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It just seems this Thread has lost its focus.
So what have you done this week?

I am working on something I will post probably next Monday.
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Old 08-14-2012, 20:15   #580
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registered for the first semester of my senior year in college. Thats about as close as i get for prepping right now. Will be an Electrical Engineer in less than a year

Oh, and got new shoes for the BOVs. My usual ferrier broke his hand so it took a bit to find a temporary replacement. Looking to start sourcing the tools to learn this myself in the near future. Got my horse through a couple miles of trails with leg movements only, no steering by hand. now to see how gunshy he is...
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