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Old 01-13-2012, 18:49   #1
orangeride
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Longshot vs 800x in med hot 200's

Ok guys, I've been working on a load for 200gr bear tooth hard cast. The intended purpose is camp defense and protection while out in the field. The gun is a bone stock 20sf. The whole time during load work up I pulled a bore snake through every 3 rounds. I've got a load for both Longshot and 800x that are giving me 1230-1250 fps. For some reason at that speed 800x seems a little bit easier on the brass ( less bulging) and seems not to eject as far, it also seems not to be quit as loud. Does anyone else have the same experiance with these same powders? Lastly their might be a chance that I'd have to shoot in the dark, can anyone say which one has less flash?
I don't plan on shooting many, so it's not a problem hand weighing each load.
By the way Im using fed standard LP primers.
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Old 01-13-2012, 19:29   #2
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Well you didn't elaborate on the load details with each powder...
Both will be a little flashy at the evening hours...if someone isn't looking for the flash signatue and shooting at you it should be OK!

I seriously hope your using hearing protection as your trying to make any distinction as to how loud these are!
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Old 01-13-2012, 19:33   #3
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On the thread linked below, jeffreybehr took a photo of 800-X flash. Very bright flash. He has some other good photos of high-speed photos of muzzle flash on a website. Worth checking out. I don't know about Longshot flash. Here is a link to a recent thread. Scroll down a bit to see the photo of an 800-X load.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1393805

One powder that seems to do ok in the dark is Accurate #9. They push the WFNGC bullets pretty good.

By the way, that is the bullet type that I carry in the Idaho wilderness. I have been loading Double Tap bullets, but I intend to buy Beartooth bullets next time since I hear that they have a bit better quality.

EDIT: You might check this out too. Jeffrey does not recommend Longshot or 800-X for SD due to high muzzle flash:

http://jeffreybehr.zenfolio.com/p548446203

Last edited by Taterhead; 01-13-2012 at 19:47..
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Old 01-13-2012, 21:48   #4
orangeride
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Thanks for the input guys. I don't ever shoot without ear protection, but in a worst case senerio ( in the dark with a bear coming into my tent) I'd like a load that doesn't split my ear drums and leave me night blind. I was also working with A#9 but I couldn't get the vel I was looking for. I was even running cci 350's in that load. Seemed like I kept going up in charge, but no real increase in fps. When I cleaned the gun between strings I could see unburned powder. With Longshot and 800x every time I went up .2gr I got a 20-25 fps increase. I'm thinking I'll load both up and shoot them both in the dark.
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Old 01-15-2012, 22:53   #5
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Bump!


Hey orange and tater... I am in eastern Idaho (Driggs area) and have 100 BTB 200 grain WFNGC that I am going to be carrying.

I have a pound of longshot and have loaded 5 each of 7.8, 8.0, 8.2 (book max), and 8.4 of longshot with new starline cases and CCI 300 primers. Hopefully I will be shooting them next weekend over the chrony to see what I am getting.


My goal is 1200fps for the woods, river, camping etc and want to find the right powder is for this mission. Do you guys mind sharing your 1200fps load for longshot , 800x or blue dot? I am shooting a new G20SF with a ISMI 22lb recoil spring!

Thanks,

P
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Old 01-15-2012, 23:06   #6
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If your going to push loads on the HOT side of the spectrum certainly look into getting an after market barrel. In my experience for woods use the 180XTP is all you need, and them some. It will easily completely penetrate deer in my experience, and shoot like a laser out to 100 yards.

I've had really good results with Blue Dot and the 180gr XTP's out of a LWD 6.02" barrel. I loaded mine warm but not too hot (book stated 1200fps @ 10.2g), and I'm getting about 1300fps in the extended barrel. There really is just no reason to push the powder charges too much if you use a longer barrel. Not only will you get longer brass life, but you are less likely to experience a Kaboom! In low light in the extended barrel there is pretty much no flash, but Blue Dot is loud. I used this exact combination to harvest a doe this past season (right at dark), and the XTP made a clean pass through (approx. 50 yard shot) even having taken out about 3-4 inches of spine (believe it or not..).
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Last edited by PrecisionRifleman; 01-16-2012 at 00:19.. Reason: Corrected powder charge
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Old 01-15-2012, 23:38   #7
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I have to agree about the Aftermarket barrels that offer more cartridge support.

That said I have run 10.5 grains under the Hornady 200XTP's that gave 1200 fps from my S&W 1006.

I recently used 9.4 grains of IMR800X under ther Hornady 200XTP's these went 1250 + from the S&W 1006 and actually did 1284 from the Glock 29 factory barrel. I did get some expansion but these barrels and recoils systems on my firearms did not SMILE the brass. Your results can vary so working from lower charge weights with your bullets could get you up to speed!

Good luck and be safe!
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Old 01-16-2012, 00:19   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _The_Shadow View Post
I have to agree about the Aftermarket barrels that offer more cartridge support.

That said I have run 10.5 grains under the Hornady 200XTP's that gave 1200 fps from my S&W 1006.

I recently used 9.4 grains of IMR800X under ther Hornady 200XTP's these went 1250 + from the S&W 1006 and actually did 1284 from the Glock 29 factory barrel. I did get some expansion but these barrels and recoils systems on my firearms did not SMILE the brass. Your results can vary so working from lower charge weights with your bullets could get you up to speed!

Good luck and be safe!
I actually meant 10.2g of Blue Dot (not 7.2g).
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Old 01-16-2012, 11:31   #9
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Thanks guys. I may get an aftermarket bbl to keep the brass from getting too worked.

I have shot 9.5 longshot with 180 grain XTP's with no prob. nice stout load. still need to chrono it though.

I still would like to at least get 1150fps with the 200 grain WFNGC and longshot, (preferably 1200FPS) with the stock G20 bbl.

The book shows 1178 fps with 8.2 grains out of 5" bbl so well see.

p
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Old 01-16-2012, 15:09   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AstraPat View Post
Bump!


Hey orange and tater... I am in eastern Idaho (Driggs area) and have 100 BTB 200 grain WFNGC that I am going to be carrying.

I have a pound of longshot and have loaded 5 each of 7.8, 8.0, 8.2 (book max), and 8.4 of longshot with new starline cases and CCI 300 primers. Hopefully I will be shooting them next weekend over the chrony to see what I am getting.


My goal is 1200fps for the woods, river, camping etc and want to find the right powder is for this mission. Do you guys mind sharing your 1200fps load for longshot , 800x or blue dot? I am shooting a new G20SF with a ISMI 22lb recoil spring!

Thanks,

P
For that bullet, I worked up to only 1150 fps with 800-X (standard primer) or 1100 with a mag before my brass seemed to be getting maxed out. I was at 8.5 grains and 8.0 grains, respectively. In my chamber, hotter loads expand brass about the expansion ring to 0.434". Smiles will appear beyond that. Others are getting better results with 800X, but I was not comfortable going beyond. I tried 800-X before going with Accurate #9.

Accurate #9 at 13.8 grains (CCI 350 primer) gets just over 1200 fps with brass that is less taxed looking than the 800X loads. Speer's max for a 200 gr TMJ was 14.0 gr. My brass is expanded up to about 0.433" with that load so potentially some more work to do. This is a really good load in my G20 so I haven't bothered pushing it further. It has run fine with either my stock spring weight of a 22# Wolff. Doesn't group like an XTP, but sufficiently well.

I grew up in Eastern Idaho so I like to get over to Driggs for some skiing when I can. Grand Teton Brewing down the road from you makes some pretty darned good beer too. Like the $%itch Creek Ale. Yum. I like skiing in Jackson too, but I love mellow laid back attitude on the Idaho side of the Tetons. The wide-open gladed powder skiing at Targhee is superb.

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Old 01-16-2012, 19:45   #11
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Pushing a 200gr to 1200fps is pushing luck in a stock Glock barrel.

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Old 01-24-2012, 17:38   #12
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Pushing a 200gr to 1200fps is pushing luck in a stock Glock barrel.
I disagree, its certainly dang near max, but i wouldn't say its dangerous.
8.3grs of longshot is over book max, but should get at least 1200fps and be well within SAAMI max.
place standard disclaimer here
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Old 01-31-2012, 17:52   #13
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I guess it depends on what bullet your using. Without looking it seems that I remember seeing Max load for a 200gr bullet in the 10mm to be 1150fps in the hornady manual. I could be wrong so ill have to check my manual. I personally would use caution when pushing book published loads in a stock barrel unless the testing was done using a glock barrel. Best way to test us to use a Chronograph and watch for pressure signs I suppose. Just be careful, and play it safe with the factory barrel. Not to say the stock glock barrel isn't good. Just be careful. Why risk your limbs when you can throw an extended drop in barrel into the slide and get a 100fps velocity gain without trying to push limits? Just my opinion. Have fun!

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Old 02-03-2012, 16:25   #14
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Longshot pushes the heavy stuff faster.

With 800x, I could get 1300 out of 10 grains of 800x behind a 200XTP - not a safe load, but the hottest of all I've tested in that weight category.

With Longshot, 10 gr. pushed the 200xtp faster (maybe 1325)? It was safe enough to be sold on the commercial market.

This out of a glock-length aftermarket barrel with full support.

---------------------------------

Exactly the opposite is true about the lighter bullets.

My next project (after I get done working with these nosler 150s) is to work up a longshot load in the 180s. I'm shooting for 1450 fps with the 180s.
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Old 02-03-2012, 19:27   #15
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10 gr. pushed the 200xtp faster
Kegs, are you citing mudrush, or did you actually cook a few of these up for yourself?
As I understood it, they were a bit much for even a KKM barrel!
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Old 02-03-2012, 20:31   #16
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10gr of longshot with a 200gr XTP. LOL I'm waiting for the post where you are typing with one hand telling us about how you pushed 10.5-11gr's and flew your fingers off. Hornady book states max charge for the 200XTP and longshot at 7.3 grains. Now I'm sure you can push over that, but up to 10 grains?!?! Why? What are you getting out of pushing them that far past max? Anything other than risking blowing up your gun? When you become that obsessed with trying to get more power out the 10mm why don't you just step up to a 41 magnum or a 44 magnum? Is the risk really worth seeing numbers on a chronograph? There is no purpose in pushing them that fast honestly. I came to that conclusion after I dropped a doe the doe using the load in my previous post with the 6" barrel. If that load had that kind of performance on a deer I have to ask what your goal is?
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Old 02-03-2012, 21:54   #17
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I wish I had some of SwampFox ammo at that 1325 fps to verify. I did obtain a box of the 1240 fps stuff which had 9.4 grains of LongShot under the Hornady 200XTP's. I duplicated that load and tested those @ 1260 from my S&W1006 5" barrel.

I don't know if I would push to the 10.0 grain loading...I had a friend run the numbers in the QuickLoad program which showed the peak pressure @ 58823 psi for the 9.4 grain LongShot loading. If the QuickLoad numbers are close that load is outside of the SAAMI MAP for 10mm...
10mm Reloading Forum
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Old 02-03-2012, 22:37   #18
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_TheShadow: I gotta get a copy of that program! I'm assuming that's available online? If so I hope I can get it to work on my linux box.

Btw isn't the SAAMI max pressure for the 10mm 37500 psi? If I'm missing something help me out here; I'm interested.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:17   #19
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PrecisionRifleman, the software can be found here...

http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm
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Old 02-04-2012, 13:27   #20
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Thank you Shadow

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