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Old 01-23-2012, 06:36   #26
svtpwnz
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I say neither and save a few more bucks for a better rifle.
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:46   #27
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Originally Posted by Civilian sheep Dog View Post
Hey guys, I have a few extra dollars coming back to me this year, went all of 2011 with no major purchases. Now I'm in the market for a AR. the two I have in mind are the DPMS Sportical rifle (223/5.56) or the S&W M&P Sport which is the same caliber AR. I'm kinda leaning towards the M&P curious if anyone out there has any experience with either of these rifles or would recommend either of them
Thanks
Either will be great first time AR rifles. Unless your range is in fact Afghanistan, you probably wont need a dust cover, and to be honest, I have never used the forward assist on my Colt. Your first rifle is more about learning fundamentals, and you are going to clean the crap out of it, so that miniscule amount of dust that may or may not get into the bolt will be negligible.

Some pros of getting the Smith would be the lifetime warranty and they always seem to be having a rebate. Free stuff or less expensive gun, cant go wrong.

A friend of mine just put together a DPMS, its nice, fit and finish is great for the money, functioned flawlessly at the range.

I would also recommend looking at Rock Rivers, they may be a bit more expensive but are damn good ones.

Start with iron sights and learn fundamentals, also with the money you can save on getting one of those options, you can buy ammo. An AR is like a horse, buying its not the problem, feeding it is. The mall ninjas may say you need a Colt or some high end gun, but decide for your self, do you want to spend more time at the range shooting a less expensive gun, or cleaning one you cant afford to shoot.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:32   #28
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M&P Sport = Toyota Corolla

Colt 6920 = Lexus IS250
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:41   #29
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I have about two thousands rounds Of wolf and tula ammo through my doublestar car-15. For 649 I'm Damn happy with it. M4 feedramps, staked castle nut, staked bolt,f front sight post, Damn good stock trigger, good fit and finish. Spikes .22lr kick works well in it.

The s&w would easily match it, so I don't think you would have any issues with it and if you did s&w would take care of you.

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Old 01-23-2012, 07:54   #30
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OP,

I have a Palmetto State Armory build that I did myself. I think total, it ran around $550 to do. It has all the military features like 1/7 twist, CL 4150 barrel, M4 feed ramps, MPI Bolt, ect.

However, my buddies Stag, which has none of that, keeps up with my rifle fine. We shoot fairly often and never less than 1000rds in a day. We also practice bounding and 2-man tactics, so our weapons hit the dirt and concrete often.

In fact, my buffer tube broke and his rifle has had no problems.
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:12   #31
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Well, I have a couple hundred rounds through my S&W Sport, guess I better just throw the POS in the trash since I've exceeded its service life....
I didnt mean to offend you, and i never said it was a POS. I am totally new to the platform myself, so i am only speaking from the research i have done. However, the guys who do know what they are talking about on m4carbine.net (and here too) all agree that the S&W is not a hard use gun.

5000 rounds later, your gun is much more likely to have serious issues compare to others, thats all. There is no getting around the fact "you get what you pay for".
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Old 01-23-2012, 09:58   #32
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Defend your purchase & methods all you want. Most of us have and have owned the brands. I wouldn't waste my $600 on either of those rifles.

Why even bother saying more?
Look, if someone is willing to spend a few hundred (closer to 1K) more, than yes, there are better deals out there. In fact, PSA had a deal going for their basic M4gery for $600 a while back, and that is something that I would choose over an M&P sport.

But, setting aside the PSA deal (which I believe is over, but could be wrong), a person looking to spend around $600 is getting a good deal with the M&P Sport model.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:02   #33
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I didnt mean to offend you, and i never said it was a POS. I am totally new to the platform myself, so i am only speaking from the research i have done. However, the guys who do know what they are talking about on m4carbine.net (and here too) all agree that the S&W is not a hard use gun.

5000 rounds later, your gun is much more likely to have serious issues compare to others, thats all. There is no getting around the fact "you get what you pay for".
Depends on how you take care of it. Keep it clean and properly lubed, and 5K isn't much, through any decent quality AR. Run it hard and keep the maintenance low, and a cheaper AR might have more problems. But then again, it may not, you never know.

Keep in mind that the many folks at M4Carbine.net (and here in the BRF) are very much AR snobs that feel the need to own the best quality stuff......and there's nothing wrong with that. But since most people that buy ARs will never use them hard, they're fine for the vast majority of shooters out there.
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Old 01-23-2012, 13:05   #34
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5000 rounds later, your gun is much more likely to have serious issues compare to others, thats all. There is no getting around the fact "you get what you pay for".



http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...on-mp15-sport/

"Smith claims that the bare bones approach has no effect on durability. They’ve fed two M&P15 Sport test rifles a combined ~170,000 rounds of various brands of ammunition without any [visible] damage to the Melonite finishing process"
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Old 01-23-2012, 13:35   #35
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M&P Sport = Toyota Corolla

Colt 6920 = Lexus IS250
This is spot on. Lexus= Overpriced.
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Old 01-23-2012, 14:33   #36
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Originally Posted by wrx04 View Post
I didnt mean to offend you, and i never said it was a POS. I am totally new to the platform myself, so i am only speaking from the research i have done. However, the guys who do know what they are talking about on m4carbine.net (and here too) all agree that the S&W is not a hard use gun.

5000 rounds later, your gun is much more likely to have serious issues compare to others, thats all. There is no getting around the fact "you get what you pay for".
Not really offended, it just amazes me how many people with no hands on experience with a particular brand can be such experts on them. Just because someone has 800,000 posts on M4C.net doesn't really count as credentials to me, now there are guys with a lot of real life experience, like Surf who posts frequently in BRF here, whose advice I would pay attention too.
As far as hard use, frankly if I was looking for a hard use rifle I wouldn't even be looking at ARs, I would probably be looking at something like a SCAR.
No don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those guys that tries to say their $600ish rifle is equal to a $2,000ish rifle. But here is a report of an M&P15 Sport that survived a week long training course at Gunsite.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...on-mp15-sport/

ETA: I see that Z71Bill posted the same link.
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Old 01-23-2012, 16:05   #37
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I have been looking for a budget AR also. After my process of looking, I believe that I am going to purchase the M&P. A few reasons: Warranty from a complete gun vs building one. It comes with sights. It seems that everyone who purchases an AR (like a 1911) will be changing something: even if they buy the $2000 gun. I like the solid trigger guard on the Sport. I am interested in the PSA, but I feel more secure with the ability to have S&W take care of any problems that I MAY encounter.

Unlike many on the zombie forums, I have carried an M4 in combat. The dust cover didn't keep out the dust while I was in Iraq. I'm quite sure my safe has less dust than there. I have never used the forward assist, other than to demo it as a "feature".
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Old 01-23-2012, 17:15   #38
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Thanks for the input. The reason I'm choosing between these two rifles is because that's the budget I'm working with. People say just save up 300 more bucks and score a colt 6920 I totally understand but to be honest im not a die hard AR fan, I just would like a decent platform where I can go to the range and have fun possibly buy some add on's and that's about it. My range is stacked with people with AR's and I almost dont want one just cause everyone has one, but why should I starve myself of the AR just for that reason. If I come away with a new outlook on the AR I'll prob sell the one I'm getting and move into something more advanced (money wise). Right now I'm leaning towards the S&W sport. I'll post pics and my take on it when I get it. I hear good things from people who actually own one and its a great value. Thanks everyone who posted
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Old 01-23-2012, 17:22   #39
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Originally Posted by Civilian sheep Dog View Post
Thanks for the input. The reason I'm choosing between these two rifles is because that's the budget I'm working with. People say just save up 300 more bucks and score a colt 6920 I totally understand but to be honest im not a die hard AR fan, I just would like a decent platform where I can go to the range and have fun possibly buy some add on's and that's about it. My range is stacked with people with AR's and I almost dont want one just cause everyone has one, but why should I starve myself of the AR just for that reason. If I come away with a new outlook on the AR I'll prob sell the one I'm getting and move into something more advanced (money wise). Right now I'm leaning towards the S&W sport. I'll post pics and my take on it when I get it. I hear good things from people who actually own one and its a great value. Thanks everyone who posted


For your intended use & budget, the S&W M&P 15-Sport will be a perfect fit. I bought mine for similar reasons.

I love it because it isn't ammo sensitive. I'll pick up the least expensive TulAmmo @ WalMart & have a good time at the range. It just works. If it ever breaks, I just call up S&W for factory warranty service.
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Old 01-23-2012, 17:28   #40
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M&P Sport = Toyota Corolla

Colt 6920 = Lexus IS250

Its more like a Corolla vs a Avalon IMO.
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Old 01-23-2012, 17:37   #41
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Old 01-23-2012, 17:54   #42
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Old 01-23-2012, 17:55   #43
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I own an M&P Sport and think its a good rifle. That being said, I wish I had the patience to save an extra $300 dollars for a Colt 6920. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the rifle, but I like the look of an upper with FA/DA. IMO, S&W probably saved about zero omitting those features and did it for no other reason than product differentiation from its more expensive ARs. Its barrel is accurate and the Melonite coating is almost as durable as Chrome lining. Additionally, My gun shoots the same as my friends 6920, has a better trigger and has less slop between the upper/lower.

Funny thing about my AR is that I've spent almost as much dressing it up as I would've spent on a Colt. $639 for the gun, $120 for Magpul MOE furniture and another $45 for a BCM Gunfighter charging handle. I would've bought the same stuff for the Colt though.

Here's mine, btw
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Old 01-23-2012, 17:57   #44
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I really like mine. Granted, I'm not an "operator", haven't been to any carbine classes and only have a few hundred rounds through it so far. As you can see I swapped out the factory stock for an ACE Socom, To me it feels more sturdy than most the other collapsible stocks. Really the only issue I had was that it didn't like the hard primers used in most steel case ammo. I put in an extra power hammer spring (cheap and easy fix) and haven't had anymore issues.
Sure you could save up another 3-400 bucks and get a Colt, or you could buy the Sport and use that money for a bunch of Pmags and ammo.

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Old 01-23-2012, 18:02   #45
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Its more like a Corolla vs a Avalon IMO.
Avalon "gun" would shoot a .308

The point was - both will get you to work on time -
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Old 01-23-2012, 18:07   #46
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I bought a sportical a few years ago to defend myself at the range from all the evil paper. To this day, it still does what I got it for and is still a fun gun. If it is to be a range toy, you do not need a dust cover or a forward assist for it to work but you will need some kind of optics or sights as the sportical comes with none. Haven't held the m&p but looke like it has a front sight so factor this into you price. Either way, get what you like and enjoy.
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Old 01-24-2012, 09:21   #47
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A friend just bought a Sport from Cabela's and loves it. It is a well made rifle, at a price point that many can afford. You need not spend more to get what you probably don't need, hence the reason why S&W made this particular rifle. It fills a niche very nicely and with an optic (Nikon M223 scope on a detachable mount in my friend's case) this rig is perfect for range use. Once you realize you can save up a few hundred and get a Colt, well then you can up a few hundred and get something else with a piston. And if you save a few hundred more, then. . . well you get the picture. Bottom line is the Sport model is a great rifle at a great price.
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Old 02-16-2012, 21:26   #48
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I'm in a similar position and have been looking at basic good quality ARs as I save. My goal is to shoot 3 gun in 2012. ARs have been scarce and prices have risen steadily. The price leaders have been consistently backordered. The s&w was at the top of my list but either unavailable or offered at sick prices. Yes I pondered saving for the Colt with starter range guns inching up. I have my muck and mire AKs and AM only looking for a range gun in this caliber. A trusted dealer appeared yesterday (on line) with DPMS Sporticals for $600. I jumped on it and will report on what sights I use and how it meets my need. Truth is if I won Powerball I'd be shopping very differently in many areas. Such is life and frankly I'm having a ball. Last weekend I shot an IDPA match with an added BUG class. A great time was had by all and we're better for it. BUG gun 5 shot stations. Everyone should try it.
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Old 02-17-2012, 23:21   #49
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My honest opinion is most people spend too much on ARs, including myself, and you don't always get what you paid for something, including ARs. With high end whatevers you generally spend more and more money for increasingly marginal high end features. The corolla/Lexus comparison is interesting, a lot of people have gotten pretty good use out of corollas and been happy with them, particularly those on budgets. I've seen plenty of broken Colt made M16s, that is why units have extra rifles. At any given time 3-5% of them are down. I've bent a barrel on a parachute jump myself. The vast majority of people will never do more than shoot at paper on a range or if using it in HD will never fire a full magazine through it. Frankly, they only need a corolla and will be well served by one.

I like a dust cover but I live in the desert and dust gets everywhere, even in closets. I like a forward assist, using your thumb into the notch is fine with a cold weapon. Do that with a gun you just fired a magazine out of could leave a mark and its what I was trained for. Saying that, its not that important and certainly would not be a deal breaker, I think I used one once or twice in twenty years in the Army.
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Old 02-17-2012, 23:53   #50
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2800 reloads through my Sport, no major issues.

Color me ignorant, but in what way is a $900 rifle better than the Sport if you're using it for Range and HD use?
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