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Old 01-22-2012, 23:55   #21
Javelin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim151515 View Post
I know right. an ar rifle is only good if it is ready to go to battle in the mountains of afghanistan right now. those people who just want one to have fun with at the range without all the extra features that is the price of a handgun or less are just wasting their money
Naw. But I have given up trying to tell people to buy this or buy that. I just try and answer the question they presented. I have an affinity for Noveske Rifles but I am willing to drop $2k+ on a rifle. I understand many cannot. So there are Colts, Daniel Defense, LMT... then there are also BCM, LWRT, Stag... and of course we can't forget PSA, BM, Armalite, Ruger, SIG... it is just a laundry list of guns and everyone has an opinion.

Mine for this thread is that there are many other things I would drop $600 on and a DPMS Sportical or S&W Sportical are not on that list.
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Old 01-23-2012, 00:03   #22
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It is also almost midnight here and I am very tired but cannot sleep so .... I guess the long and short of it is this.

CivilianSheepDog I like you (as most on this forum). I wouldn't and don't want to steer someone wrong. I am 100% confident that you will be better served saving up $385 more dollars and buying a Colt 6920. It will serve you well and you will enjoy it for years. And no, just for the record I don't love Colts. I don't consider them to be the end-all-be-all rifle like many parrot every single day on other boards. They are just a very good value for the money and really a solid gun that your grand kids will be able to enjoy.

Or you can easily find uppers & lowers slightly used on sale on many M4 forums that are great value. BCM for instance allows you to build your upper and lower and have them shipped seperately. If you wish (and I recommend should you choose to 'build' yourself) is as stated above by buying a complete upper and then buying a stripped lower of the same brand you found your upper because the hugh of the coloration varies from makers and they can look purplish or grey or black depending so having them match and having a matched rifle will help in resale should you do so later down the road.

Then go ahead and assemble the stripped lower from a DD/PSA/etc parts kit (or whatever parts kit you get a deal on... I would avoid DPMS to be honest but some on here found they have had no issues with so I will leave it at that).

Then you have a decent AR for about $800 total after everything is said and done. Else, just get a Colt. Buying a quality AR is pricey. Buying another AR to replace and upgrade the lesser one you bought is where it gets expensive.
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Last edited by Javelin; 01-23-2012 at 00:07..
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Old 01-23-2012, 00:34   #23
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Thank you sir! I understand how tiring it can be to answer the same question again and again. I do appreciate you taking the time out to give out some advice.

I didn't think to keep a build's stripped lower & upper from the same manufacturer due to finish differences. I'm banging my head against the desk for not thinking about that. I'll have to deal with that bone-headed mistake when I finally decide on a complete upper. I'm taking my time so I can figure things out.

I've held a Colt 6920. The local FFL had one at a recent gun show. The end-customer let me handle it. I had to keep my drool off it. I hear nothing but good things about it. A Colt is definitely on the distant future buy list.

I understand dropping $2K on a Noveseke rifle. Like everything, there's a measure of truth in the saying "you get what you pay for". I put it in context of my former sport bike riding days. While I loved my CBR 600rr, I knew it was not even close to any Italian bike. They're both sport bikes, and both grossly do the same thing. The difference was in the fine details that affected the overall experience.
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Old 01-23-2012, 00:51   #24
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FWIW, I have a DPMS Sportical for a range toy and haven't had any problems with it. Only have about 600 rounds through it, and the only time I had a malfunction was one light primer strike. That was within the first 50 or so rounds fired. All in all, I'm very happy with it.
Planning on ordering the CMMG 300 Blackout upper to use on the lower in a week or so.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:45   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx04 View Post

The general consensus was colt, DD, or BCM is the only way to go if you plan on putting anything more than a couple hundred rounds through it. Buy once, cry once.

Good luck.
Well, I have a couple hundred rounds through my S&W Sport, guess I better just throw the POS in the trash since I've exceeded its service life....
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:36   #26
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I say neither and save a few more bucks for a better rifle.
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Old 01-23-2012, 07:46   #27
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Originally Posted by Civilian sheep Dog View Post
Hey guys, I have a few extra dollars coming back to me this year, went all of 2011 with no major purchases. Now I'm in the market for a AR. the two I have in mind are the DPMS Sportical rifle (223/5.56) or the S&W M&P Sport which is the same caliber AR. I'm kinda leaning towards the M&P curious if anyone out there has any experience with either of these rifles or would recommend either of them
Thanks
Either will be great first time AR rifles. Unless your range is in fact Afghanistan, you probably wont need a dust cover, and to be honest, I have never used the forward assist on my Colt. Your first rifle is more about learning fundamentals, and you are going to clean the crap out of it, so that miniscule amount of dust that may or may not get into the bolt will be negligible.

Some pros of getting the Smith would be the lifetime warranty and they always seem to be having a rebate. Free stuff or less expensive gun, cant go wrong.

A friend of mine just put together a DPMS, its nice, fit and finish is great for the money, functioned flawlessly at the range.

I would also recommend looking at Rock Rivers, they may be a bit more expensive but are damn good ones.

Start with iron sights and learn fundamentals, also with the money you can save on getting one of those options, you can buy ammo. An AR is like a horse, buying its not the problem, feeding it is. The mall ninjas may say you need a Colt or some high end gun, but decide for your self, do you want to spend more time at the range shooting a less expensive gun, or cleaning one you cant afford to shoot.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:32   #28
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M&P Sport = Toyota Corolla

Colt 6920 = Lexus IS250
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:41   #29
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I have about two thousands rounds Of wolf and tula ammo through my doublestar car-15. For 649 I'm Damn happy with it. M4 feedramps, staked castle nut, staked bolt,f front sight post, Damn good stock trigger, good fit and finish. Spikes .22lr kick works well in it.

The s&w would easily match it, so I don't think you would have any issues with it and if you did s&w would take care of you.

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Old 01-23-2012, 08:54   #30
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OP,

I have a Palmetto State Armory build that I did myself. I think total, it ran around $550 to do. It has all the military features like 1/7 twist, CL 4150 barrel, M4 feed ramps, MPI Bolt, ect.

However, my buddies Stag, which has none of that, keeps up with my rifle fine. We shoot fairly often and never less than 1000rds in a day. We also practice bounding and 2-man tactics, so our weapons hit the dirt and concrete often.

In fact, my buffer tube broke and his rifle has had no problems.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:12   #31
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Originally Posted by joecoastie View Post
Well, I have a couple hundred rounds through my S&W Sport, guess I better just throw the POS in the trash since I've exceeded its service life....
I didnt mean to offend you, and i never said it was a POS. I am totally new to the platform myself, so i am only speaking from the research i have done. However, the guys who do know what they are talking about on m4carbine.net (and here too) all agree that the S&W is not a hard use gun.

5000 rounds later, your gun is much more likely to have serious issues compare to others, thats all. There is no getting around the fact "you get what you pay for".
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:58   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
Defend your purchase & methods all you want. Most of us have and have owned the brands. I wouldn't waste my $600 on either of those rifles.

Why even bother saying more?
Look, if someone is willing to spend a few hundred (closer to 1K) more, than yes, there are better deals out there. In fact, PSA had a deal going for their basic M4gery for $600 a while back, and that is something that I would choose over an M&P sport.

But, setting aside the PSA deal (which I believe is over, but could be wrong), a person looking to spend around $600 is getting a good deal with the M&P Sport model.
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Old 01-23-2012, 11:02   #33
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Originally Posted by wrx04 View Post
I didnt mean to offend you, and i never said it was a POS. I am totally new to the platform myself, so i am only speaking from the research i have done. However, the guys who do know what they are talking about on m4carbine.net (and here too) all agree that the S&W is not a hard use gun.

5000 rounds later, your gun is much more likely to have serious issues compare to others, thats all. There is no getting around the fact "you get what you pay for".
Depends on how you take care of it. Keep it clean and properly lubed, and 5K isn't much, through any decent quality AR. Run it hard and keep the maintenance low, and a cheaper AR might have more problems. But then again, it may not, you never know.

Keep in mind that the many folks at M4Carbine.net (and here in the BRF) are very much AR snobs that feel the need to own the best quality stuff......and there's nothing wrong with that. But since most people that buy ARs will never use them hard, they're fine for the vast majority of shooters out there.
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Old 01-23-2012, 14:05   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx04 View Post
5000 rounds later, your gun is much more likely to have serious issues compare to others, thats all. There is no getting around the fact "you get what you pay for".



http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...on-mp15-sport/

"Smith claims that the bare bones approach has no effect on durability. They’ve fed two M&P15 Sport test rifles a combined ~170,000 rounds of various brands of ammunition without any [visible] damage to the Melonite finishing process"
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Old 01-23-2012, 14:35   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
M&P Sport = Toyota Corolla

Colt 6920 = Lexus IS250
This is spot on. Lexus= Overpriced.
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Old 01-23-2012, 15:33   #36
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Originally Posted by wrx04 View Post
I didnt mean to offend you, and i never said it was a POS. I am totally new to the platform myself, so i am only speaking from the research i have done. However, the guys who do know what they are talking about on m4carbine.net (and here too) all agree that the S&W is not a hard use gun.

5000 rounds later, your gun is much more likely to have serious issues compare to others, thats all. There is no getting around the fact "you get what you pay for".
Not really offended, it just amazes me how many people with no hands on experience with a particular brand can be such experts on them. Just because someone has 800,000 posts on M4C.net doesn't really count as credentials to me, now there are guys with a lot of real life experience, like Surf who posts frequently in BRF here, whose advice I would pay attention too.
As far as hard use, frankly if I was looking for a hard use rifle I wouldn't even be looking at ARs, I would probably be looking at something like a SCAR.
No don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those guys that tries to say their $600ish rifle is equal to a $2,000ish rifle. But here is a report of an M&P15 Sport that survived a week long training course at Gunsite.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...on-mp15-sport/

ETA: I see that Z71Bill posted the same link.
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Old 01-23-2012, 17:05   #37
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I have been looking for a budget AR also. After my process of looking, I believe that I am going to purchase the M&P. A few reasons: Warranty from a complete gun vs building one. It comes with sights. It seems that everyone who purchases an AR (like a 1911) will be changing something: even if they buy the $2000 gun. I like the solid trigger guard on the Sport. I am interested in the PSA, but I feel more secure with the ability to have S&W take care of any problems that I MAY encounter.

Unlike many on the zombie forums, I have carried an M4 in combat. The dust cover didn't keep out the dust while I was in Iraq. I'm quite sure my safe has less dust than there. I have never used the forward assist, other than to demo it as a "feature".
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Old 01-23-2012, 18:15   #38
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Thanks for the input. The reason I'm choosing between these two rifles is because that's the budget I'm working with. People say just save up 300 more bucks and score a colt 6920 I totally understand but to be honest im not a die hard AR fan, I just would like a decent platform where I can go to the range and have fun possibly buy some add on's and that's about it. My range is stacked with people with AR's and I almost dont want one just cause everyone has one, but why should I starve myself of the AR just for that reason. If I come away with a new outlook on the AR I'll prob sell the one I'm getting and move into something more advanced (money wise). Right now I'm leaning towards the S&W sport. I'll post pics and my take on it when I get it. I hear good things from people who actually own one and its a great value. Thanks everyone who posted
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Old 01-23-2012, 18:22   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Civilian sheep Dog View Post
Thanks for the input. The reason I'm choosing between these two rifles is because that's the budget I'm working with. People say just save up 300 more bucks and score a colt 6920 I totally understand but to be honest im not a die hard AR fan, I just would like a decent platform where I can go to the range and have fun possibly buy some add on's and that's about it. My range is stacked with people with AR's and I almost dont want one just cause everyone has one, but why should I starve myself of the AR just for that reason. If I come away with a new outlook on the AR I'll prob sell the one I'm getting and move into something more advanced (money wise). Right now I'm leaning towards the S&W sport. I'll post pics and my take on it when I get it. I hear good things from people who actually own one and its a great value. Thanks everyone who posted


For your intended use & budget, the S&W M&P 15-Sport will be a perfect fit. I bought mine for similar reasons.

I love it because it isn't ammo sensitive. I'll pick up the least expensive TulAmmo @ WalMart & have a good time at the range. It just works. If it ever breaks, I just call up S&W for factory warranty service.
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Old 01-23-2012, 18:28   #40
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M&P Sport = Toyota Corolla

Colt 6920 = Lexus IS250

Its more like a Corolla vs a Avalon IMO.
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