Anything new in the area of 12ga defense ammo?

emt1581 · 02-04-2012, 13:25

I have a bunch of 00 Buck and I make my own slugs for those rounds.

Other than the basics, is there anything new and exciting/impressive out there?

I've seen these British rounds that seem pretty devastating but with everything non-eastern European....I'm guessing we can't get it here.

D Dupleks ammunition penetration test - clay blocks - YouTube

Winchester has their PDX1...seems ok.

Again, anything else out there?

Thanks

-Emt1581

MadMonkey · 02-04-2012, 13:39

DDupleks are widely available but from what I've seen a lot of dealers are blowing them out... been on sale at JG Sales for a while now. I bought some before they sold out of a couple of types. SGammo still has some available IIRC.

Also, I believe they're Latvian.

emt1581 · 02-04-2012, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMonkey

DDupleks are widely available but from what I've seen a lot of dealers are blowing them out... been on sale at JG Sales for a while now. I bought some before they sold out of a couple of types. SGammo still has some available IIRC.

Also, I believe they're Latvian.

Thanks for the info.

So did the company go under? Do they suck or are they awesome? Is there better available?

Thanks again!

-Emt1581

MadMonkey · 02-04-2012, 14:20

I don't know, I ordered it a few weeks ago and won't be home for a long time to try it out

I just checked SGAmmo and it appears they've gotten more of it in, so I assume they aren't out of business. I looked up some reviews before purchasing and those slugs (both types) look absolutely devastating...

DocKWL · 02-04-2012, 14:22

Most certainly!

Read all about it HERE

Given Brenneke USA's recent QC issues and the unfortunate unavailability of true Rotweil Brennke loads in the U.S. currently, we have been looking for alternative slug loads that are capable of adequate penetration after first defeating intermediate barriers. We shot the new Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug load @ 1350 fps (http://www.federalpremium.com/produc...ug.aspx?id=902). It penetrated 24" of gel after first defeating an automobile windshield, with no deviation from trajectory and outstanding weight retention. The Federal Truball Deep Penetrator works as a potential Brenneke replacement. As a bonus, it is very accurate out to at least 100 yards.

-----------------------------

Based on IWBA data, Don Hacklander from San Diego Police Supply and I have been discussing the potential of a properly designed #1 buckshot LE load for many years--with Don's help and the efforts of some folks at ATK, this has now finally been brought to fruition!

We shot the new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps "Flight Control" load (LE132-1B) yesterday out of a generic 18" 870P, including patterning from 5-35 yards, as well as a bare gel shot at 7 yards. In bare gel, all 15 of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrated in the 14-18 inch range.

This new Federal LE132-1B #1 buckshot load offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes.

emt1581 · 02-04-2012, 14:58

Hmm...so is the federal THE best penetrator and the Dupleks the best at creating a wide wound channel?

Thanks

-Emt1581

9mm +p+ · 02-04-2012, 15:55

Honestly there isn't alot of room for improvment, existing loads work pretty well in actual use. I run 12 pellet 2.75" 00 and Brenneke slugs. They've been effective for decades and still are.

emt1581 · 02-04-2012, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

Honestly there isn't alot of room for improvment, existing loads work pretty well in actual use. I run 12 pellet 2.75" 00 and Brenneke slugs. They've been effective for decades and still are.

This is what I figured.

However, I like staying up to date in the weapons world. Plus I'm waiting for my 8.5" AOW to be cleared and I'd like to find the perfect round for that thing.

I'm guessing low recoil would give me the fastest follow-ups but at what cost in regard to penetration/expansion and overall performance I haven't a clue. No experience with them.

But for now I figure I'll look at best penetrating and expanding THEN look for the other specialty rounds.

Thanks

-Emt1581

9mm +p+ · 02-04-2012, 18:35

Ooooooh 8.5" 12 ga. that will be fun, 8 pellet LR rounds will definetly be in order for that, I like Winchesters myself but Fed's have done well for me in the past. If it's penetration you want look into Ball Fleche Sauvestire(spelling may be off). They were imported in the early 00's, they are a discarding sabot round of french origin. Very hard penetrator slug, they are pricey but boy do they work! Import name was Sledgehammer, have seen them on gunbroker before.

emt1581 · 02-04-2012, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

Ooooooh 8.5" 12 ga. that will be fun, 8 pellet LR rounds will definetly be in order for that, I like Winchesters myself but Fed's have done well for me in the past. If it's penetration you want look into Ball Fleche Sauvestire(spelling may be off). They were imported in the early 00's, they are a discarding sabot round of french origin. Very hard penetrator slug, they are pricey but boy do they work! Import name was Sledgehammer, have seen them on gunbroker before.

Doesn't LR (Less powder) cut the nuts off the round? Plus the 8.5 is already doing some neutering of it's own. But again I have ZERO experience with such rounds. I'm sure I could roll my own and make them the perfect combination of speed and recoil.

As far as Fleche..that's not like Flechette darts is it? I'll have to look it up.

Any links to what you were talking about would be cool but again, I'll do some digging.

Thanks

-Emt1581

9mm +p+ · 02-04-2012, 20:56

With an 8.5" barrel power is going to be cut either way, LR will have less flash and blast than a full powr load that only burns partial powder load. No flechete's it is a cast slug with a steel core, it hasdn't been imported for a while so try googling it. Aslo look into Marshall/Sanow book street stoppers, the one printed in 00 that's where I heard of it.

NG VI · 02-04-2012, 21:31

Somewhere there were some charts posted of the velocities of some typical 12 gauge loads out of a variety of barrel lengths. The most significant part of it was that you really don't lose much velocity with a short barreled shotgun, and you gain nothing from going over sixteen to twenty inches, load depending. I mean there were loads in the ~10" shotgun tested that were just as fast as equivalent loads in the 18.5", there were loads that lost velocity in every barrel over 18", there were loads that lost a good amount of velocity, but not enough to render it undesirable in the short guns.

The biggest thing was that a barrel longer than 20" does absolutely nothing for speeds, just shooting characteristics, and the short barrel shotguns don't at all behave like short barrel rifles, they are more like really big pistol caliber carbines. And not .357/.44 Magnum ones either.

emt1581 · 02-05-2012, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

Ooooooh 8.5" 12 ga. that will be fun, 8 pellet LR rounds will definetly be in order for that, I like Winchesters myself but Fed's have done well for me in the past. If it's penetration you want look into Ball Fleche Sauvestire(spelling may be off). They were imported in the early 00's, they are a discarding sabot round of french origin. Very hard penetrator slug, they are pricey but boy do they work! Import name was Sledgehammer, have seen them on gunbroker before.

This it?

http://www.sauvestre.com/-Balles-Fusil,30-?lang=fr

Looks like a miniature brass bomb/torpedo! It's all in french but I'm not sure who would sell something like that..any ideas??

Thanks

-Emt1581

DocKWL · 02-05-2012, 10:26

I would not get too wrapped around the axle searching for exotic 12 gauge ammunition.

If your typical hunting/LE buckshot and slugs are not getting it done, you are fighting something from a different planet.

A Brenneke slug will wallop anything you hit.

9mm +p+ · 02-05-2012, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by emt1581

This it?

http://www.sauvestre.com/-Balles-Fusil,30-?lang=fr

Looks like a miniature brass bomb/torpedo! It's all in french but I'm not sure who would sell something like that..any ideas??

Thanks

-Emt1581

I think those are it, no pics loaded but it does sound like them. As I said I don't think they are imported any longer, you can find them for sale on Gb from time to time but you will pay for them! I agree for penetration get yourself some Brenneke's they are what I use.

NG VI · 02-05-2012, 13:45

Hover the cursor over the section called Balles Fusil, there's a picture of the slug there.

emt1581 · 02-05-2012, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

I think those are it, no pics loaded but it does sound like them. As I said I don't think they are imported any longer, you can find them for sale on Gb from time to time but you will pay for them! I agree for penetration get yourself some Brenneke's they are what I use.

I'll look for some brenneke's, even Cabelas should have them... now is Brenneke the brand name I want? What would be the exact model/etc. I want to punch in to get me the "Brenneke" rounds?

As for the sauvestre's I'm not seeing any ANYWHERE. In fact, people are asking about them on various sites for the last few years and all the replies say they are NOT imported here in the US.

Thanks

-Emt1581

emt1581 · 02-05-2012, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by NG VI

Hover the cursor over the section called Balles Fusil, there's a picture of the slug there.

Right. That's where I saw it...amazing!! But there are ZERO available in the US from what I can tell...though my google-fu may just be weak.

I did find some overseas but they did not look like the bomb/torpedo models.

-Emt1581

Tiro Fijo · 02-05-2012, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocKWL

...We shot the new Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps "Flight Control" load (LE132-1B) yesterday out of a generic 18" 870P, including patterning from 5-35 yards, as well as a bare gel shot at 7 yards. In bare gel, all 15 of the 30 caliber plated pellets penetrated in the 14-18 inch range.

This new Federal LE132-1B #1 buckshot load offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes.

That's funny, no one in the REAL World has shot nor seen this mysterious new Fed. rd.

Here's your proof:

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=2&t=280585

Maybe they don't have "Secret Squirrel" clearance.

emt1581 · 02-11-2012, 19:43

These what yall are talking about for the Brenneke's??...

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Brenn...h-All+Products

If so, what does that offer over the Lee 1oz. Slugs I pour myself in my back yard?

Thanks

-Emt1581

cole · 02-11-2012, 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9mm +p+

Honestly there isn't alot of room for improvment, existing loads work pretty well in actual use. I run 12 pellet 2.75" 00 and Brenneke slugs. They've been effective for decades and still are.

I was thinking the same thing. 00 Buck and a 1oz slug still gets it done cheap. IMO, nothing new worth a restock of the supply.