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Old 02-19-2012, 11:36   #1
Metal Angel
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Kahr double action, Glock single action?

Recently I was looking at both the glock internals view and the Kahr internals view on their respective websites... And the action is identical. Both strikers have to be 3/4 cocked before you can pull the trigger. Pulling the trigger then completes the cocking of the striker and releases it, and the energy from the cartridge locks the striker back to 3/4 cocked... The only difference I see is it takes a longer trigger pull to accomplish the same thing on the kahr... Why do they call it double action? Or why don't they call glocks double action?
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:46   #2
Ebb27
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Glocks are called a double-action-only and are classified as such by the BATF.


The only common single-action striker pistols are the Springfield XD line.


Who ever told you Glocks were single-action didn't know what they were talking about.
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Last edited by Ebb27; 02-19-2012 at 11:54..
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Old 02-19-2012, 13:01   #3
ronin.45
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The various striker fired mechanisms have changed the way you have to think about SA/DA a little. It's not as clear cut as 1911s and revolvers anymore.
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Old 02-19-2012, 13:13   #4
Ebb27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin.45 View Post
The various striker fired mechanisms have changed the way you have to think about SA/DA a little. It's not as clear cut as 1911s and revolvers anymore.


Yeah it's a bit different, since pistols like the Glock and the S&W striker pistols, only partially cock the striker spring, but since the trigger does finish cocking it and then releases it as well, it is considered a double-action.

The trigger is performing two actions, cocking and releasing the striker. However unlike the old "traditional" DA triggers, it does not "fully" cock the spring so you can't fire the gun by simply pulling the trigger like a "traditional" DA. The no double-strike thing.


The XDs though are just like any other "traditional" single-action. Racking the slide fully cocks the striker spring and the trigger performs one action, it releases it. Same as any other SA trigger.

This is why the XDs are not common in Law enforcement agencies, like the Glock and M&P. Most LEAs either issue or require their officers to carry a DAO pistol or revolver.
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Last edited by Ebb27; 02-19-2012 at 13:26..
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Old 02-19-2012, 13:36   #5
ithaca_deerslayer
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I don't understsnd why some people say if a gun does not have second strike then it is not a double action.
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Old 02-19-2012, 13:56   #6
Tim151515
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ithaca_deerslayer View Post
I don't understsnd why some people say if a gun does not have second strike then it is not a double action.
My guess is that it is because most people assosiate double action with the ability to pull the trigger again and again and again without touching the action. Like an earlier poster said, though, striker fired guns kind of change the way we have to look at traditional da or sa pistols, since they don't have a hammer to manipulate.
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Old 02-19-2012, 14:07   #7
barth
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It's confusing for sure

Striker guns have changed everything.
Most striker guns pull back a plunger part way when you rack it.
And you pull the trigger to get the rest of the pull.
It's like half cocked if you will.
And you finish cocking and release by pulling the trigger.
Technically that's considered double action???

Weird.

To add to the confusion there are single action striker guns.
Like the Kimber Solo, that are fully cocked and only release with the trigger.

The difference is important because the single action striker guns require cocked and locked carry with a safety.

Where many so called double action striker guns, Glock, have no external safety to turn off.

I almost bought a Kimber Solo for pocket carry without
realizing the implications of this!!!

Last edited by barth; 02-19-2012 at 14:08..
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Old 02-19-2012, 20:46   #8
ithaca_deerslayer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barth View Post
Striker guns have changed everything.
Most striker guns pull back a plunger part way when you rack it.
And you pull the trigger to get the rest of the pull.
It's like half cocked if you will.
And you finish cocking and release by pulling the trigger.
Technically that's considered double action???

Weird.

To add to the confusion there are single action striker guns.
Like the Kimber Solo, that are fully cocked and only release with the trigger.

The difference is important because the single action striker guns require cocked and locked carry with a safety.

Where many so called double action striker guns, Glock, have no external safety to turn off.

I almost bought a Kimber Solo for pocket carry without
realizing the implications of this!!!
I am no authority on this, but I like to look at what the pulling of the trigger does. If it only releases the hammer or striker, then I think of it as single action. This also includes those where pulling the trigger is deactivating a passive safety such as a firing pin block or positioning a transfer bar.

But when pulling the trigger is needed to cock the hammer or striker, and then the continued pull releases the hammer or striker, I consider that double action. To me, I include with these the guns that are partially pre-cocked, because pulling the trigger is needed to finish cocking the hammer or striker. And just as with the single action, moving a firing pin block or transfer bar may be part of the deal, too.

Where it becomes interesting to me is when we wonder if the partially pre-cocked hammer or striker could fall with enough force to discharge a round, even if it wasn't completely cocked. And I'm not talking specifically about a safety failure, but more a hypothetical question of if the manufacturer could have chosen not to have the hammer or striker cocked back further upon the pulling of the trigger, and still have the gun work fine.

Last edited by ithaca_deerslayer; 02-19-2012 at 20:46..
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