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Old 04-26-2012, 18:06   #476
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Interesting that 26Inf found that post.

I also posted about an old 1911 that dropped nearly every round on top of my head, and a pair of .25 automatics that tossed empties half way to China.
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Old 04-26-2012, 19:03   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 26Inf View Post
I had to laugh at the first link you posted (the one with the Glock's, the H&K, and the Smith 5906(?) because I almost posted that while I wasn't quite to the point that I could induce fail to eject's at will on a Glock, I had a Smith 39, that I could induce fail to extracts and fail to ejects at will.

Also really liked the safe direction that muzzle was going during the video! Myself, I use a live then a dummy for such demos.

I take your point although the fact that 'a shooter can, also, teach himself how to overcome the predilection of Glock's loose lockup to fail-to-feed' ought to include the caveat - by practicing proper grip and trigger control.

In a roundabout way we were saying the same thing, except I believe that the reasonable expectation of all manufacturers is probably that the shooter holds the weapon in some semblance of the proper grip - recoil operated weapons do need something to recoil against after all!

Thanks for the welcome!
I see you've done this before!

I, also, consider the way Strumgehwer's pistols were bouncing back in recoil to be more dangerous than anything I'd, personally, want to attempt with a handgun.

Right now, I've got around 30,000 rounds, total, through several Glock pistols - All without so much as a single limp wrist event. Still, I've watched while plenty of other Glock shooters have, somehow, managed to do it.

Back in the days when we, all, used to shoot 45's and 357's there was no such thing as, 'limp wristing'. The loose wrist phenomenon seems to have shortly followed the invention of Glocks with their significantly modified Browning lockup design.
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Old 04-27-2012, 13:34   #478
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Today FWIW I ran a box of NATO spec 9mm through my G26.

Ejection with the original (polished) LCI extractor and 336 ejector was all to the right and back at 4PM, but only about two feet behind me. Seemed the NATO ammo was not as hot as the 115 gr. WWB.

A few rounds went high and left and a couple other almost straight up. These ejections seemed to coincide with the last couple rounds in the magazine. None to the face!

Ejection with the Glock seemed to mirror that of a Colt 1991A1 I was also shooting. I also observed a Kimber and a Sig 226, all the big autos seemed to shuck out the brass the same angle and distance.

Like others I tend not to break down my mags because it is a PITA, however in the cases of pistols developing erratic ejection after many hundreds of rounds fired, I would propose that dirty mags or weak mag springs could be just as much a contributor as a "worn" ejector or extractor hook.

I also fired my pistol one handed, with both the right and lelft hands. I took a firm grip and noted that one-handed ejection seemed more positive, the cases ejecting out to the right side at a 90 degree angle to the pistol.

Last edited by 153; 04-27-2012 at 13:37.. Reason: additional info
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Old 04-27-2012, 14:13   #479
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Yesterday I put down 100 rounds thru my glock 17 with the new ejector. Ejection has certainly improved. Its consistently to my 4 o clock. I had only one round come back towards me. Unsure why, maybe it was the ammo or my grip?

with the 336 ejector my ejection was wild from the start. With it going backwards, left, right, forward.

I'll run it like this and try some different ammo. If I continue to get 98% good ejection to the right I will be happy with it. I really don't have time to tweak with it or shoot much for the next couple months since I am traveling for work.

I might experiment with the 9mm or .40 cal Lone wolf extractor later down the road just to see if that helps it.

I honestly didn't think the new ejector would help but it did.
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Old 04-27-2012, 14:29   #480
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I sold my 26 but i'm still experimenting for you guys with my buddys 19rtf2 (was mine but I sold it to him). I installed the LWD 9mm extractor in his today and will be taking it to the range on monday for a test fire. I still have the LWD 40 and glock oem 40 on the way.

He still has the 336 ejector in and I will put in the updated ejector in with all 3 as well. Stay tuned.
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Old 04-27-2012, 14:30   #481
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interessting project trying a 9mm LWD extractor in your 9mm glock (your buddys glock), so you'll try the LWD .40 extractor and the 9mm LWD extractor.
i'll bet on the LWD .40 extractor in the 9mm glock performing better than the 9mm

Last edited by dusty_dragon; 04-27-2012 at 14:33..
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Old 04-27-2012, 14:49   #482
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Originally Posted by dusty_dragon View Post
interessting project trying a 9mm LWD extractor in your 9mm glock (your buddys glock), so you'll try the LWD .40 extractor and the 9mm LWD extractor.
i'll bet on the LWD .40 extractor in the 9mm glock performing better than the 9mm
I believe the 40 will perform better as well but its on back order so I was planning on at least trying the 9mm. I mean, whats 15 bucks or whatever for the sake of knowing for sure.

I just wanted to leave no stone unturned for you guys.

I was going to do this in my 26 but I sold it last night.
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Old 04-27-2012, 15:29   #483
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will be going to the range soon (probably today) with 19 gen 4 with LW 9 mm extractor, although my polished OEM extractor started behaving good too.
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Old 04-27-2012, 15:53   #484
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Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
Update on my G19 Gen.3(12/09)
It had a few crazy ejections. In my face,on top of my head,left,over my head and foward. Not many but enough to cause me to experiment.
Several types of ammo from expensive to the cheaper stuff including Tula and including my reloads( 115 FMJ, 4.0 Clays and Win. Primers)

At first I polished the extractor as others have done and my ejections got much worse and many more of them.
Next I removed a smaLL amount from the step and still the same.
Now wasted a lot of ammo money and decided to do all future tries with the above reloads.

Found a Gen.4 trigger housing with a 30274 ejector and installed the ejector on my 19.
Ejections got much better but still not right.
Changed extractor to a non-polished one and that was the cure.
Fired 200 rds. Sunday and nothing to the head or face and only a couple over my head.
Today I shot another 200 and had the same results as Sunday.
For now I will consider my 19 cured. All of this was with the above reloads

Almost all my brass was about 3 ft. to my right rear

Another update
Another 200 rds of reloads through my 19 today with a lighter load. 3.7 grs. Clays(a starting load and low velocity)
NONE TO FACE OR HEAD!!!!!!!!!! None to the left or forward.
About 6-7 over my right shoulder and the rest between 4-5 o'clock 2-4 ft. away
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:49   #485
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is there a summary (or a final sticky) as far as what extractor and/or ejector needs to be replaced in a GEN3 model (G17 in my case) to fix the ejection "problems"? or just point me to which post in this thread to read for part numbers?

went to the range with my new G17 GEN3 yesterday and had a several weird ejections. nothing that i would call "in my face" (from the gun), but some to the left too. will post in a separate thread.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:39   #486
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Originally Posted by FTjoe View Post
is there a summary (or a final sticky) as far as what extractor and/or ejector needs to be replaced in a GEN3 model (G17 in my case) to fix the ejection "problems"? or just point me to which post in this thread to read for part numbers?

went to the range with my new G17 GEN3 yesterday and had a several weird ejections. nothing that i would call "in my face" (from the gun), but some to the left too. will post in a separate thread.
From what I've read so far, my own post #286 is, about, as close as you're going to get. My first suggestion to you would to polish the top and bottom flats on the extractor. If that doesn't work think about very finely shaving the inside shoulder of your extractor per the instructions in this thread. Here's a synopsis I did as much for my own use as anyone else's:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
I like the comments offered by Voyager4520. I'd like to say a little more about why Dave Nowlin's solution, also, works. (Which was how this entire, now rather long, thread began.)

Now, let's see, how can I explain this? OK, yes, the new molded extractor claws are slightly too large, and the new extractor claws do a really poor job of gripping the cartridge rim tightly. Consequently, when extraction starts to take place and without that slight angle to the claw, like the 40 caliber extractor has, the case is going to come out of the chamber along a lower horizontal axis.

Something else is going to happen to: Because the inside shoulder of the new molded extractors is slightly oversized, once the cartridge case is almost out of the chamber the new extractors are unable to move backwards into the slide with the same, 'snap' as the older extractors are able to do.

This means that a spent cartridge case is going to be, 'pushed' more out of the gun rather than, 'snapped' out; and THIS is what Nowlin's solution actually addresses. Consequently, there's more than just one performance characteristic wrong with Glock's new molded extractors. If I were to do a list, it would look like this:

1. The top and bottom, 'flats' are too thick and need to be polished down.

2. There is no reverse angle on the earliest extractor claws.

3. The claws on these molded extractors are too large and the fit is sloppy.

4. The inside, 'shoulder' is slightly oversized and inhibits inward extractor motion (or, 'snap') at the end of the slide's stroke.

5. I have a suspicion that the recoil characteristics of Glock's new dual-action guide rod design contribute to this situation.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:01   #487
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So many manufacture errors, what was glock thinking?


1. The top and bottom, 'flats' are too thick and need to be polished down.

2. There is no reverse angle on the earliest extractor claws.

3. The claws on these molded extractors are too large and the fit is sloppy.

4. The inside, 'shoulder' is slightly oversized and inhibits inward extractor motion (or, 'snap') at the end of the slide's stroke.

5. I have a suspicion that the recoil characteristics of Glock's new dual-action guide rod design contribute to this situation.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:23   #488
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I don't know? I don't build Glocks; I only shoot them. FTjoe asked for a synopsis of the information contained in this thread; and I gave him one. That's as much as I can tell ya.
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Old 04-29-2012, 13:56   #489
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Looking to improve the extraction/ejection of my FDE Gen 3 G17 . . . I first swapped out the slide assembly with a much older one from an OD G17. Immediately the FDE guns ejection arc was more consistent and positive and the long trusted OD gun displayed weaker ejection arcs and a few only making it a few inches to the right side of the gun. CLUE!

Then I swapped extractors between a circa '99/'00 G19 and the FDE Gen 3 G17. With this old extractor the FDE gun ran 200 rounds beautifully with consistent 4:00 ejection arcs out about 4-5'.

And the long proven old G19 displayed sketchy extraction - often only arcing out a foot and some dribbling on my forearm.

Game-set-match IMO. The new extractor from the FDE gun showed much more scracthing wear on the uppermost side surface. It was tight to get out of the gun whereas the old Gen 3 G19's extractor easily fell freely out of it's slide during the swap.

In the future I will apply the ideas from this thread to tuning the sketchy extractor.
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Last edited by Apprentice; 04-29-2012 at 13:56..
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Old 04-29-2012, 14:49   #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apprentice View Post
Looking to improve the extraction/ejection of my FDE Gen 3 G17 . . . I first swapped out the slide assembly with a much older one from an OD G17. Immediately the FDE guns ejection arc was more consistent and positive and the long trusted OD gun displayed weaker ejection arcs and a few only making it a few inches to the right side of the gun. CLUE!

Then I swapped extractors between a circa '99/'00 G19 and the FDE Gen 3 G17. With this old extractor the FDE gun ran 200 rounds beautifully with consistent 4:00 ejection arcs out about 4-5'.

And the long proven old G19 displayed sketchy extraction - often only arcing out a foot and some dribbling on my forearm.

Game-set-match IMO. The new extractor from the FDE gun showed much more scracthing wear on the uppermost side surface. It was tight to get out of the gun whereas the old Gen 3 G19's extractor easily fell freely out of it's slide during the swap.

In the future I will apply the ideas from this thread to tuning the sketchy extractor.
EXACTLY CORRECT!

(It's nice to see someone actually test the advice I've been regularly suggesting. I'm not the least bit surprised by your results. Your next step? Try heavily polishing the extractor's top and bottom, 'flats'.)
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:31   #491
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EXACTLY CORRECT!

(It's nice to see someone actually test the advice I've been regularly suggesting. I'm not the least bit surprised by your results. Your next step? Try heavily polishing the extractor's top and bottom, 'flats'.)
And ah thank you for that advice. It just took me awhile to finally hit Glock #15 where I needed it! Actually this FDE Gen 3 17 cycled 440 rds w/o a malf up to this swapping but it's extraction/ejection was quite weak with 10-20% landing on my head or cap brim. So it was a candidate.

Do you think I need a dremel for this polishing? I was figuring to do it with Flitz and elbow grease.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:22   #492
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Another 150 rounds yesterday and perfect ejection with new ejection. Thats about 350 rounds with new ejector with only about 3 or 4 rounds coming straight back. Pretty happy about it overall compared to before.

Also I had a buddy shoot with me yesterday, it was his first time shooting at all. He didn't do too bad, but even with his bad grip/possible limp wristing and form the gun didn't FTE/FTF or have any weird ejection patterns.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:31   #493
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also "cured" my buddys Gen. 3 G17 with eratic ejection today.
i installed the new "30274", that nearly did the job, but not yet perfect, so i installed a non-LCI extractor plus non-LCI SLB and now he has very positive ejection to the right at 4-5 o' clock 1.5 - 2.5 meters right.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:41   #494
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Originally Posted by Apprentice View Post
And ah thank you for that advice. It just took me awhile to finally hit Glock #15 where I needed it! Actually this FDE Gen 3 17 cycled 440 rds w/o a malf up to this swapping but it's extraction/ejection was quite weak with 10-20% landing on my head or cap brim. So it was a candidate.

Do you think I need a dremel for this polishing? I was figuring to do it with Flitz and elbow grease.
Dremel is not a good idea because you want it flat.Flitz will polish but will not remove enough metal - you don't actually need a polished surface! Wet and dry emery paper of the kind used in car body repair shops on a flat surface will do it. Start with about 600 grit and finnish with 1200.

Edited to add: Every time you try it for fit wash and dry it first as otherwise it will carry grit into the slot in the slide.

English

Last edited by English; 04-30-2012 at 12:43..
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Old 04-30-2012, 14:47   #495
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Dremel is not a good idea because you want it flat.Flitz will polish but will not remove enough metal - you don't actually need a polished surface! Wet and dry emery paper of the kind used in car body repair shops on a flat surface will do it. Start with about 600 grit and finnish with 1200.

Edited to add: Every time you try it for fit wash and dry it first as otherwise it will carry grit into the slot in the slide.

English
Perfect. That's of great help to a simple part swapper like me.
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Old 04-30-2012, 15:15   #496
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Originally Posted by Apprentice View Post
And ah thank you for that advice. It just took me awhile to finally hit Glock #15 where I needed it! Actually this FDE Gen 3 17 cycled 440 rds w/o a malf up to this swapping but it's extraction/ejection was quite weak with 10-20% landing on my head or cap brim. So it was a candidate.

Do you think I need a dremel for this polishing? I was figuring to do it with Flitz and elbow grease.
Well, it looks like you're going to get some conflicting information on this question from two different senior GT members who (usually) know what they're talking about.

The, 'flat polishing technique' sounds good; and it, quite possibly, works; but, I'm now too old for, 'donkey work'. Besides I've been able to achieve excellent results with a power Dremel Tool. (You WILL BE POLISHING FLAT if you move the tool properly.)

True, my excellent Glock triggers might be attributable to personal skill with a Dremel Tool; but, to be frank, I don't see how any Glock could have a better trigger than the one I am presently using. If I wanted an improvement, I'd have to start making MECHANICAL modifications.

Should you use a Dremel? Thousands of Glock owners have; and, if the alternative is Q-Tips, well, in my experience Q-Tips are a complete waste of time.



ONE MORE THING: In my life there have been two essential power tools that have made home repairs, and whatever else, much simpler and faster to complete. Personally, I would never be without them: The first is a large, battery-powered drill, and the second is a Dremel Tool. (So if you spring for the Dremel, and learn how to use it, you won't be throwing away money on a one-shot deal.)

They're not the best; but Wal-Mart has some comparatively inexpensive (Wal-Mart quality) Dremel Tools.

Last edited by Arc Angel; 04-30-2012 at 15:24..
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Old 04-30-2012, 15:42   #497
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Dremmels are awesome. I have used them on almost every firearm I own or have owned. I polish all types of internals. Just take your time, and use the correct bits. Its not hard. The trick is taking your time.
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Old 04-30-2012, 17:34   #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 26Inf View Post
I'm a noobie, this is my first post - but I read the first 13 pages of this thread and this was the first mention I saw of the possibility of the shooter being an issue.

I routinely watch (and coach) groups of up to 16 shooters fire a couple thousand rounds through their weapons - over 60% are using Glocks.

When I see a shooter who is ejecting rounds over their right shoulder or into their face experience tells me a fail to eject malfunction is incipient. The first place I look for an answer is the shooter - are they doing something that is causing the issue, i.e. loose grip, backing away from the weapon in recoil, etc.

These babies will shoot and function on their own with little or no grip, pressure, yet I regularly see shooter's induce fail to eject malfunctions.

Occasionally it will be the gun, but often it is the shooter. JMO

IMHO, I don't see anything wrong with polishing the extractor in the areas you've mentioned, but I like to keep defensive/combat weapons 'springed' stock.


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Welcome to GT.

I don't argue that all Glock functioning issues are from limp wristing. But . . . I recently watched an inexperienced shooter put first rounds downrange with a Gen 4 G19. They had failures to feed at a rate of every 3rd round or so. I asked them how hard they were gripping the pistol and they answered "barely". I gave him a firm handshake and suggested he grip it at least that hard. "OHHHHHHH". He then sailed through 150 rounds (3 boxes) with not one more problem. Hey, am I gonna believe my own eyes? Yeahhh.
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Old 04-30-2012, 17:36   #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Well, it looks like you're going to get some conflicting information on this question from two different senior GT members who (usually) know what they're talking about.

The, 'flat polishing technique' sounds good; and it, quite possibly, works; but, I'm now too old for, 'donkey work'. Besides I've been able to achieve excellent results with a power Dremel Tool. (You WILL BE POLISHING FLAT if you move the tool properly.)

True, my excellent Glock triggers might be attributable to personal skill with a Dremel Tool; but, to be frank, I don't see how any Glock could have a better trigger than the one I am presently using. If I wanted an improvement, I'd have to start making MECHANICAL modifications.

Should you use a Dremel? Thousands of Glock owners have; and, if the alternative is Q-Tips, well, in my experience Q-Tips are a complete waste of time.



ONE MORE THING: In my life there have been two essential power tools that have made home repairs, and whatever else, much simpler and faster to complete. Personally, I would never be without them: The first is a large, battery-powered drill, and the second is a Dremel Tool. (So if you spring for the Dremel, and learn how to use it, you won't be throwing away money on a one-shot deal.)

They're not the best; but Wal-Mart has some comparatively inexpensive (Wal-Mart quality) Dremel Tools.
I'll play with both. A dremel might have the same effect as the first time I started krylon'ing an AR. A Noveske. A couple beers, started painting, plenty nervous then 30 mins later I'm looking around . . . "what else can I paint?"
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:32   #500
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I pulled this extractor from my Gen3 FDE G19 which has less than 400 rounds through it and was displaying erratic ejection. I believe I'll be ordering at least one extractor from Apex when they become available. Sorry for the crappy picture but you can definitely see the wear.

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