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Old 06-10-2012, 15:58   #701
dusty_dragon
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Old 06-11-2012, 03:59   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
I'm not completely buying that since if you shoot a Glock with the mag out many times (most?) the empty case WILL fall down through the mag well. So obviously gravity is wanting to apply itself there and the only thing blocking it is the magazine follower or top round in the mag.
Thanks for the thought about reply.

If the ejection is weak, that is, not properly controlled, it results in the empty case bouncing around in the open space behind the chamber before a random bounce takes it out of the port in an unpredictable direction or leaves it stovepiped. As the presence of the mag in the mag well closes off one of those random directions, it can't go downwards if there is a mag in place. With no mag in place it can go downwards and sometimes will. It might even be that the empty mag well is a more probably destination than the port.

That is just speculation of course. What we can be sure of is that if the case can slide down out of the grip of the ejector under the quite weak force of gravity relative to the other accelerations acting on it, then the extractor is not gripping it as it should.

The inability of the extractor to grip the case is, according to my analysis many many posts above (#27), a primary cause of faulty ejection. So the two things, erratic ejection and a case falling out of the extractor, go together. In particular, if the case will fall out of the extractor when hand cycled, you can expect the pistol to produce faulty ejection.

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Last edited by English; 06-11-2012 at 04:11..
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Old 06-12-2012, 22:48   #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by English View Post

The inability of the extractor to grip the case is, according to my analysis many many posts above (#27), a primary cause of faulty ejection. So the two things, erratic ejection and a case falling out of the extractor, go together. In particular, if the case will fall out of the extractor when hand cycled, you can expect the pistol to produce faulty ejection.

English
As usual, English is straight on. A weak extractor won't hold the case where it should be. That's the reason that I have had to "tune" the extractors, in some of my 1911s.

An tight extractor is why most folks can use a 9mm conversion barrel, in a Glock chambered for 40 S&W, without changing the extractor. It will also, hold a 9mm round tight enough in a 40 S&W chamber, to fire the round with excessive headspace. The MV will be very low and terrible accuracy, though.
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Old 06-13-2012, 18:31   #704
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Long time lurker, 3rd post I think. Count me as another having ejection issues out of my 3rd Gen G17. Here are some post I have made over on another site that explains where I am at right now.

Quote:
I have a new to me, but low round count 3rd Gen G17 that is having issues. I don't know the date of manufacture, but the spent casing envelope has that it was collected on 11/18/2011. Serial is SET 5**. It only had a couple hundred rounds through it before I got it, and I have put 500 rounds through it myself. During those 500 rounds I have experienced a 180 degree horizontal stove pipe, at least 1 round to the face from each magazine shot (sometimes more) and I had a FTFeed on the last round of a WHO string I was firing from a very new Glock mag.(I think this was a possible limp wrist issue.)

It has a 336 ejector and I'm not sure what extractor it has, but it has a #2 on it. Recoil spring part number I think is 5579 which is stamped on the end. So the gun has less than 1,000 rounds through it and is already exhibiting issues that have been discussed in this lengthy thread.

I have a 3rd Gen G19 PFM*** serial that has been outstanding for almost 4K rounds. Next time I'm at the range I'm going to try swapping some parts to see if anything changes.
Quote:
Took my 3rd gen G17 that has been ejecting brass to my forehead to the range today after getting some spare parts in the mail.

I ordered:

1. Glock LCI Extractor. It has a # 4 stamped on it.
2. LWD LCI Extactor. Nothing stamped on it.
3. Glock Trigger Housing with 336 Ejector. They seem to all come with the 336 ejector, I could not find any different ones available.
4. White Sound Defense H.R.E.D. Extractor Depressor Assembly

All the parts came from Glockparts.com. Ordered on Thursday late AM, shipped by middle of the afternoon and arrived in my mailbox on Saturday.

Right off the bat I tried the HRED with the stock #2 Ejector. First shot was a horizontal stovepipe. WTH! Cleared it, then ran another 25 rounds through. It was doing better with ejection (not nailing me in the forehead), but it was just barely going over my head. There were a few that seemed to just dribble out.

Next, I changed out the #2 stock extractor for the new #4 Glock extractor and put back in the Glock extractor depressor spring. First shot was a piece of brass right to the forehead. Didn't even go any further with that setup. Swapped it out for the HRED spring. Shot 25 rounds. Weak extraction. Some dribbling out, some going back right, some brushing my hair on the top of my head. Still not working right.

Next change was for the Lone Wolf LCI Extractor with Glock extractor depressor spring. Shot 25 rounds with weak extraction, some even going out in front of me to the right. None hit me in the forehead. So I swap out for the HRED spring with the Lone Wolf Extractor. Shoot 50 rounds through the gun. No brass to the forehead, strong ejection to the back right. There were a couple that seemed to not come out very strong, but I can't swear by it. I shot 2 Dot Torture test and had to go, but no brass to the face using the LWD LCI with White Sound Defense HRED spring. Many more rounds need to go through the gun to shake it out. Will have to see what happens over the next couple days with this setup.
Quote:
I think I have given up too.

This last range session today was unsuccessful in shaking out my G17. Tried a newer Gen 3 trigger housing that came with a 336 Ejector, Lone Wolf LCI Extractor and HRED spring. On the 29th round had a vertical stovepipe. Was also having weak ejection and getting nailed in the forehead with brass.

That's three stovepipes in 700 rounds, weak ejection and constantly getting nailed in the forehead with brass.

Guess it is time to send it off to Glock, but who knows if that will help.
So as you can see, I have tried several different setups with almost no change in ejection issues. So after reading through this thread last night, I polished the top and bottom of the stock #2 extractor and filed down a little so it can grip the rim of the casing a little better. I'm going to the range first thing tomorrow morning to see what will happen after the new mods. I'll report back.
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Old 06-13-2012, 18:48   #705
az larry
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You still haven't tried a 30274 ejector. I've tried all the things you have and ended up with just the 30274 ejector. No rounds to the face but not old school Glock extraction everything ejects right a foot or two depending on ammo. Actually about right at 4-5:00. There is a new batch of Glock LCI extractors that are non dip. I have some coming and am going to try them. If they help I may try using them with the old ejector as well. If your not wanting to try the new ejector by all means send it to Glock.
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Old 06-13-2012, 18:52   #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az larry View Post
You still haven't tried a 30274 ejector. I've tried all the things you have and ended up with just the 30274 ejector. No rounds to the face but not old school Glock extraction everything ejects right a foot or two depending on ammo. Actually about right at 4-5:00. There is a new batch of Glock LCI extractors that are non dip. I have some coming and am going to try them. If they help I may try using them with the old ejector as well. If your not wanting to try the new ejector by all means send it to Glock.
Only reason I haven't tried it yet, is I just haven't been able to acquire one. Who has one that I can order from?
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Old 06-13-2012, 18:57   #707
az larry
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You need to order a Gen 4 trigger housing from either glockparts.com or LWD if they have stock. Then swap out the ejector into your Gen 3 housing. The Gen 4 housing won't fit in your Gen 3 gun. But if Glock will pay shipping both ways maybe send it in. I don't have the patience so I did all the stuff you did. But I only had the sprinkler ejection, no failures.
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Old 06-13-2012, 19:16   #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmoore912 View Post
Only reason I haven't tried it yet, is I just haven't been able to acquire one. Who has one that I can order from?
triggeraction.net has 'em. Like az larry said, they only come installed in a GEN4 trigger housing. Order the whole thing for 10 bucks and yank out the 30274 ejector & put it in your GEN3 trigger housing. Part number for the assembly (with 30274 ejector installed) is 30275. This is what I did to my GEN2 G19 & it fixed my ejection issues.
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Old 06-13-2012, 19:39   #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az larry View Post
You need to order a Gen 4 trigger housing from either glockparts.com or LWD if they have stock. Then swap out the ejector into your Gen 3 housing. The Gen 4 housing won't fit in your Gen 3 gun. But if Glock will pay shipping both ways maybe send it in. I don't have the patience so I did all the stuff you did. But I only had the sprinkler ejection, no failures.
OK, I have a Gen 4 LWD Trigger Housing from Glockparts.com on order. They and Lone Wolf were back ordered on the Glock OEM part. I appreciate the info. Will let you know what happens.
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Old 06-14-2012, 13:48   #710
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Update after range visit:

I was using the Factory #2 Extractor that I polished on both sides and also filed down the little shoulder to allow it to reach in on the case rim better. I was also using the OEM Extractor Spring that came with the gun.

Strong ejection to 4 o'clock area until the 29th round, which hit me in the lip of my mouth. Then another 10 rounds with weak ejection. Some hitting my right forearm and some just dribbling out at 3 o'clock.

So I change out the Glock Extractor Spring for the White Sound Defense H.R.E.D. Extractor Depressor Assembly. Extraction is still weak and some are strong. (it's just complete randomness) Round 45 bounced off the top of my head, round 46 nailed me in the forehead and round 48 bounced off my head and then went down the back of my collared shirt. So that was over for now. I'll wait on the 30274 Ejector to get here and try again.

Then I shot 50 flawless rounds out of my Gen 3 G19 practicing the Dot Torture.

I sure hope the 30274 Ejector will be the fix. This is getting old.
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Old 06-15-2012, 15:53   #711
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tmoore912

Judging from my experience (see my post at page 22 of this epistle) you are on the right track. I made the same changes to my Gen4 26 plus the new ejector and have fired close to 1000 flawless rounds since that time. I started out with a pistol that would rarely extract 5 rounds in a row and stovepipe half of those that did get extracted to a now flawlessly operating Glock 26 (the way my 20 year old G19 performs.) I finally trust the little Glock now and carry it a bunch. Great pistol (now.)

Good luck
jorge mas

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Old 06-15-2012, 15:57   #712
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did the 30274 most of the job, or got it better and better with all your other changes?

which changes did you in which order?
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Old 06-15-2012, 16:42   #713
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Dusty Dragon

I became absolutely convinced that the extractor was not grabbing onto the brass due to the claw not being able to get down far enough so the first modification was to what I call the 'fitting pad' on the extractor to allow a better bite. (I have never had a reason to work on a Glock before this pistol, but I have worked on lots of 1911's for me and others and this is the way you cure 1911 extraction problems (increasing the bite by bending the extractor in the case of a 1911) so I tried it on the Glock 26 by reducing the metal on the extractor pad by 50%.)

After that I was getting excellent extraction but really bad ejection so I ordered the new ejector (from Midway).

I went ahead and got the HRED while waiting for the new ejector because the engineering theory behind it was so intriguing. (I think Browning would have liked this design. I'm a big John Browning fan and have as many of his different designs as I have been able to accumulate.)

I put in the HRED at the same time I put in the new ejector and have had no reason to change anything after that. I've cleaned the extractor channel every couple of hundred rounds and shot the hell out of the gun and cannot seem to make it fail so I am satisfied with the fix. I have not tried it with the original Glock extractor plunger and spring.

I trust this answers your question. If not, let me know!

Adios
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Old 06-15-2012, 16:43   #714
az larry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty_dragon View Post
did the 30274 most of the job, or got it better and better with all your other changes?

which changes did you in which order?
From his post on page 22
Quote:
I have followed this thread for some time and felt obliged to report my experience as the insight gained here led me on the path to victory (so far, but lots of rounds downrange since the fix.)
My Glock Gen4 26 developed extraction problems and ejection problems after about 40 rounds. My Glock 19 (bought in 1992) has YET to have any malfunctions. I was really disappointed but really liked the little 26 so I kept it hoping Apex would come up with a fix like they did for the S&W's.
(I did not send it back to Glock due to my unacceptYable experience with them and a Glock 36 that would not feed any sort of hollow points.)
This thread got me on the right track. Here is what I did:
1. Put in the new model ejector.
2. Filed the 'fitting pad' on the extractor (the one by the claw) to the point where the claw almost touches the case. (This is about 1/2 the thickness of the pad in my case. Use a safe-sided square swiss cut file like you use to square 1911 hammer hooks. Brownell's)
3. Replaced factory extractor plunger with White Sound HRED.

I have fired over two hundred rounds (mostly 124 grain reloads and factory Speer 124) now with perfect function using left hand, right hand, both hands, upside down, running plates, slow fire, you name it I tried it. Ejection is at 4 o'clock and they all land about 6 feet out and within a 2 foot circle. The 26 now has the most consistent ejection pattern of all of my semi-autos!
I'd like to see some pics of that filing job on your extractor.
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Old 06-15-2012, 17:26   #715
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az larry

You can't really see much in a picture. The main thing is to use a square, safe-sided file so you reduce the pad thickness without getting into the interior side of the claw. Brownell's has such a file which is described as a file for squaring hammer hooks on a 1911. It has a very fine cut and will be mirror shiny when you are through. I am talking about using maybe 40 strokes on the file to remove 50% of the pad. That is not much in terms of metal removal but the geometry of the part works out to be big. You can keep track of how much you have removed by looking at the pad on the plunger side of the extractor. It is a hard piece of metal for sure. Its not difficult to do with the right file. Just try and make the filing as square as you can. I used a couple of pennies for padding on the extractor and put it in a vice. This helped me keep things square.

Each case has a tiny mark on it inside the rim when it is live-fire ejected so I am getting a good bite on the brass. In my view, the only way I won't get a positive extraction is if the extractor spring is too weak and you have a particularly sticky case. (Who knows, maybe Glock had another series of bad springs, this time in the extractor plunger.)

I can tell you that the HRED really puts some pressure on that case and the modified extractor gets a good bite. It still HAD TO HAVE that new ejector to get the ejection complete. Don't know why Glock says it is not needed in the G26 and says it IS needed in the G19. Its the same gun for Christ's sake!

I hope this fix will work for you and the others having problems. I have really torture tested the rig before my first post and have really, really done so since then. I started out with a $500 paper weight and it is now as reliable as any firearm I own.

jorgemas
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Old 06-15-2012, 17:33   #716
az larry
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Any chance you could put some chalk on the are you filed and post a pic? I have a spare extractor that I'd like to try it on, just can't tell from your description where the pad is.
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Old 06-15-2012, 17:37   #717
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Jorgedos

thanks, that's all the info i needed.

glad to hear you fixed it in the end.
enjoy shooting her now ;-)

Last edited by dusty_dragon; 06-15-2012 at 18:04..
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:21   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az larry View Post
Any chance you could put some chalk on the are you filed and post a pic? I have a spare extractor that I'd like to try it on, just can't tell from your description where the pad is.
This is the area he is talking about on the extractor. It is posted on the first page of this thread.

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Old 06-16-2012, 08:25   #719
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:56   #720
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Thanks tmoore. I was about to take the 26 apart this afternoon and try and take a picture for az but your post is perfect.
az- You want to reduce the thickness of the pad marked in red. (You can see why a safe-sided file is needed to make this cut on the pad only.) If you take it down by about 25% and reassemble you will see that you have decreased the distance of the claw from the brass rim when you insert an empty case. The more you take down the pad the closer the claw will get to the case. You might try shooting a few rounds after 25% and see if you are getting any marks inside the case rim.

Good luck!!

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