[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by lomfs24

How could you make that up?

Good question. Sometimes I think the "you can't make this s&!t up" angle is the best argument they have going for them.

[Schabesbert]

Originally Posted by lomfs24

The point I was making earlier was that a child is not born, cries for a bit, gets dried off and looks at mom and says "When's mass?" Children on their own couldn't come up with a story of a single parent, who creates some stuff that goes horribly wrong, so wrong in fact that he has to send his only son off to be killed to make it all better. But when sending his son off he has to have a bit of fanfare so he sends him off to to be born from a virgin. And because of all this we need to be celibate, wear funny hats and give 10% of what we make to that invisible single parent in the sky.

How could you make that up?

That's a great question.
So, if it wasn't made up, it would need to have happened.
Not the way you said it exactly, since that's a strawman. But yes, making up the stuff in the gospels would be pretty near impossible.

Truth IS stranger than fiction, after all.

You have to be taught that sort of thing by parents and society that believes all that too. If you were born in China you would laugh as such stories and think they are hogwash.

Really? Funny how many people in China are being converted, even though the government won't let Christianity be preached there .

If you were born in Saudi Arabia you would think that is close but Muhammad not Jesus is the real story.

Yeah? Then how come they need to enforce laws to not have Christianity taught?

[RyanBDawg]

Originally Posted by Schabesbert

That's a great question.
So, if it wasn't made up, it would need to have happened.
Not the way you said it exactly, since that's a strawman. But yes, making up the stuff in the gospels would be pretty near impossible.

Truth IS stranger than fiction, after all.


Really? Funny how many people in China are being converted, even though the government won't let Christianity be preached there .


Yeah? Then how come they need to enforce laws to not have Christianity taught?

It's easy to convert poor hopeless uneducated people. Why do you think the catholic church is focusing on Africa in their next business venture? Hard to make money when your bread and butter clients in Europe and the west are dropping Catholicism like a bad habit due to massive sexual abuse scandals and the fact that they wish women could basically stay home pregnant with their mouths shut.

Gotta brainwash some poor uneducated people to fleece them, ahhhh Africa!! Let's recruit there! Perfect!

Why do you think the catholic church for hundreds of years insured with all their might that only the clergy and the like could read and write?

Why did many areas of christendom pass laws banning other religions? Why did the Christians who took Jerusalem in the first crusade slaughter everyone in the city? How willfully ignorant are you of these facts?

And what of people converting to Islam or any other religion, just a big boo boo.

Like someone said earlier, everyone is born an Atheist, and brainwashed into religion.

Luckily it was easier for me to see though the BS at a young age and realize that all religion is laughable and so easily disproven that it astounds me.




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[Altaris]

Originally Posted by Schabesbert

Truth IS stranger than fiction, after all.

Exactly! Which is why I love how the universe works....quantum mechanics, the big bang, etc...

[Blast]

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

It's easy to convert poor hopeless uneducated people. Why do you think the catholic church is focusing on Africa in their next business venture? Hard to make money when your bread and butter clients in Europe and the west are dropping Catholicism like a bad habit due to massive sexual abused scandals and the fact that they wish women could basically stay home pregnant with their mouths shut.

Gotta brainwash some poor uneducated people to fleece them, ahhhh Africa!! Let's recruit there! Perfect!

Why do you think the catholic church for hundreds of years insured with all their might that only the clergy and the like could read and write?

Why did many areas of christendom pass laws banning other religions? Why did the Christians who took Jerusalem in the first crusade slaughter everyone in the city? How willfully ignorant are you of these facts?

And what of people converting to Islam or any other religion, just a big boo boo.

Like someone said earlier, everyone is born an Atheist, and brainwashed into religion.

Luckily it was easier for me to see though the BS at a young age and realize that all religion is laughable and so easily disproven that it astounds me.




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Show your proof, Ronulan.

[RyanBDawg]

Originally Posted by Blast

Show your proof, Ronulan.

It's the grey matter between my ears, you have it too.

Pick up a book relating to religious history, specifically how Christianity, as with other religions simply adopted certain beliefs and traditions of other religions that came before it as a start.

Show me your proof, Religi-lan.

(I liked how you tried to work Ron Paul in there even though I have held my beliefs long before I had ever heard of Ron Paul)


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[Blast]

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

It's the grey matter between my ears, you have it too.

Pick up a book relating to religious history, specifically how Christianity, as with other religions simply adopted certain beliefs and traditions of other religions that came before it as a start.

Show me your proof, Religi-lan.

(I liked how you tried to work Ron Paul in there even though I have held my beliefs long before I had ever heard of Ron Paul)


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Yeah yeah, Ron Paul notwithstanding.
I was having fun... Ronulan.

I'm not making wild assertions. I never implied proof of God. You on the other hand assert God has been disproved.
Show the evidence.
And fwiw, I used to be agnostic, but I woke up.

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by Vespasian

People have always needed to explain natural phenomena. Pre-scientific cultures came up with supernatural explanations. Even after science was developed, those pre-scientific artifacts persisted, gradually diminishing over time. Thanks to such sciences as evolutionary biology and cosmology, god is no longer necessary in explaining nature. Now in the West, religion is finally disappearing. Future generations won't even know what it is to go to church or read the Bible.

Tom

That seems like an odd statement, coming from the Messiah.

[RyanBDawg]

Originally Posted by Blast

Yeah yeah, Ron Paul notwithstanding.
I was having fun... Ronulan.

I'm not making wild assertions. I never implied proof of God. You on the other hand assert God has been disproved.
Show the evidence.
And fwiw, I used to be agnostic, but I woke up.

God has been disproven in my mind and every fiber of my being. I have all the information I could possibly need to disprove religion and god.

I can only control me though, it's up to you to come to the conclusions with the information available.

If absolute proof existed it still wouldn't matter, the indoctrinated would believe no matter what.

That's the point, look at the branch divisions, heavens gate, suicide bombers etc. Reality doesn't enter into their minds, that's what makes them the indoctrinated and separates their mind from mine and others like me.

And I used to call myself a Christian, then I woke up. Perhaps much sooner than others.


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[Kingarthurhk]

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

Then why have I been an Atheist since the age of 10-11 after I went through confirmation and really for the first time in my life actually examined the beliefs of Christianity and other religions and came to the conclusion that there was absolutely no way I could bring myself to believe a single word of it?

Death? I am in no way afraid of death, there is a beginning and an end to all things in the universe, the only difference is the time scale.. A star lasts for tens of billions of years, man lasts for decades, and a fly lasts for a few days...

How is atheism cheapening the meaning of death? It happens to everything.

Life has the meaning of what you make of it.. Some people's life has no meaning, but ultimately that's due to either the severely unfortunate circumstances that they were born in, or because of their choices.

Why does it happen to everything. The Universe is supposedly expanding infinately, so there must be plenty of habitable planets. Why should there be death? Why if there is simply evolution and no God would there be a reason for death?

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Why does it happen to everything. The Universe is supposedly expanding infinately, so there must be plenty of habitable planets. Why should there be death? Why if there is simply evolution and no God would there be a reason for death?

How does the expansion of the universe factor into the biological realities of life as we know it? On the other hand, death doesn't necessarily happen for everything. Some living organisms may be functionally immortal as long as their environment is preserved.

[Kingarthurhk]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

How does the expansion of the universe factor into the biological realities of life as we know it? On the other hand, death doesn't necessarily happen for everything. Some living organisms may be functionally immortal as long as their environment is preserved.

All biological life experiences death. How is that logical?

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

All biological life experiences death. How is that logical?

You'll have to do a better job of stating your position. How is death either logical or illogical?

[RyanBDawg]

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

Why does it happen to everything. The Universe is supposedly expanding infinately, so there must be plenty of habitable planets. Why should there be death? Why if there is simply evolution and no God would there be a reason for death?

Because constant energy cannot be expended by a single source for eternity.

By (one) scientific scenario the universe will eventually collapse into itself (big crunch) therefore forming the basis for another universe (big bang).

A timescale is required for that to happen, but the energy held in the universe is always there. The energy that ultimately allowed our bodies to exist has has existed all along.

Death is the end of biological life, but not the end of energy that our bodies contained.

If the big crunch theory is correct, it's all coming back around again, an endless cycle of energy transfer from one state to another for eternity.

Or would could be in a multiverse, as other scientists have theorized, where our universe is only one of an endless endless number of universes spread over an endless amount of space and every conceivable possibility or outcome has and does happen in an endless amount of multiverses..


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[Kingarthurhk]

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

Because constant energy cannot be expended by a single source for eternity.

By (one) scientific scenario the universe will eventually collapse into itself (big crunch) therefore forming the basis for another universe (big bang).

A timescale is required for that to happen, but the energy held in the universe is always there. The energy that ultimately allowed our bodies to exist has has existed all along.

Death is the end of biological life, but not the end of energy that our bodies contained.

If the big crunch theory is correct, it's all coming back around again, an endless cycle of energy transfer from one state to another for eternity.


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It still doesn't answer the question: why is there death?

[TalkToTheGlock]

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

Because constant energy cannot be expended by a single source for eternity.

By (one) scientific scenario the universe will eventually collapse into itself (big crunch) therefore forming the basis for another universe (big bang).

A timescale is required for that to happen, but the energy held in the universe is always there. The energy that ultimately allowed our bodies to exist has has existed all along.

Death is the end of biological life, but not the end of energy that our bodies contained.

If the big crunch theory is correct, it's all coming back around again, an endless cycle of energy transfer from one state to another for eternity.

Or would could be in a multiverse, as other scientists have theorized, where our universe is only one of an endless endless number of universes spread over an endless amount of space and every conceivable possibility or outcome has and does happen in an endless amount of multiverses..


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Yeah, we are suppossed to rot in the ground and decompose and give back energy and nitrogenic waste which enriches all other life. That's where your energy goes.




iPhone 4

[RyanBDawg]

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

It still doesn't answer the question: why is there death?

Biologically speaking our cells cannot continue to replicate forever. Like taking a copy of a copy of a copy and on and on, eventually the image will be distorted beyond comprehension. We die because our cells function in a similar way, they eventually wear out and biological life stops.

But in the broader sense....

Because there simply must be in order for the model of the universe and our planet to continue to function as far as we can tell.

Ultimately the answer to that must be decided by the individual. (the understanding of science and theory is a help)

It's like asking why are some people born with horrible diseases or in horrible circumstances in which they suffer and die, while others are born wealthy and live in comfort.

I don't know. No ones does and so people seek out comforting answers, even if they are not true answers.


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[TalkToTheGlock]

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

Biologically speaking our cells cannot continue to replicate forever. Like taking a copy of a copy of a copy and on and on, eventually the image will be distorted beyond comprehension. We die because our cells function in a similar way, they eventually wear out and biological life stops.

But in the broader sense....

Because there simply must be in order for the model of the universe and our planet to continue to function as far as we can tell.

Ultimately the answer to that must be decided by the individual. (the understanding of science and theory is a help)

It's like asking why are some people born with horrible diseases or in horrible circumstances in which they suffer and die, while others are born wealthy and live in comfort.

I don't know. No ones does and so people seek out comforting answers, even if they are not true answers.


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Good post mate. Bravo. Bravo.




iPhone 4

[Kingarthurhk]

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

Biologically speaking our cells cannot continue to replicate forever. Like taking a copy of a copy of a copy and on and on, eventually the image will be distorted beyond comprehension. We die because our cells function in a similar way, they eventually wear out and biological life stops.

But in the broader sense....

Because there simply must be in order for the model of the universe and our planet to continue to function as far as we can tell.

Ultimately the answer to that must be decided by the individual. (the understanding of science and theory is a help)

It's like asking why are some people born with horrible diseases or in horrible circumstances in which they suffer and die, while others are born wealthy and live in comfort.

I don't know. No ones does and so people seek out comforting answers, even if they are not true answers.


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That is my point. Science has no rational answer as to why there is death and disease.

[RyanBDawg]

Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk

That is my point. Science has no rational answer as to why there is death and disease.

They certainly have answers to disease! Ever met anyone with polio?

Science has a biological understanding of why we die. They don't have the reasoning behind that.


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[Altaris]

Originally Posted by TalkToTheGlock

Yeah, we are suppossed to rot in the ground and decompose and give back energy and nitrogenic waste which enriches all other life. That's where your energy goes.


iPhone 4

Correct. When we die we help to create more life on this planet, just like the stars died to help create us. Even big balls of energy like the sun will eventually burn out and die. When they do it will explode and spray all of its enriched chemicals, that it created in the nuclear furnace, all over the galaxy. That in turn will provide the correct elements to help form planets and living creatures on those planets (if they happen to have the right environment). Forget Jesus.... the stars are what died for us....as Carl Sagan said, we are made of star stuff.

[RyanBDawg]

Originally Posted by Altaris

Correct. When we die we help to create more life on this planet, just like the stars died to help create us. Even big balls of energy like the sun will eventually burn out and die. When they do it will explode and spray all of its enriched chemicals, that it created in the nuclear furnace, all over the galaxy. That in turn will provide the correct elements to help form planets and living creatures on those planets (if they happen to have the right environment). Forget Jesus.... the stars are what died for us....as Carl Sagan said, we are made of star stuff.

In my opinion this irreligious man explains things better than any religion, philosophy, or theory ever has.

Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot - YouTube

Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot - YouTube

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[RC-RAMIE]

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot - YouTube


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One of my favorites.


"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it is realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. - Ron Paul

[lomfs24]

Originally Posted by Schabesbert

Truth IS stranger than fiction, after all.

Your truth, my friend, is stranger than fiction. And it's really quite interesting how people can believe it. I find it especially fascinating since I have been on both sides of the fence. I know exactly how you feel. This unconquerable belief of what you know to be true with absolutely no evidence to back it up. It's really quite frustrating isn't it?

BTW, you missed the entire point. And I really don't feel like covering it again. You know exactly what I mean. We aren't born with this innate knowledge of God. It's something that has to be crammed down our throats.

[RyanBDawg]

Originally Posted by RC-RAMIE

One of my favorites.


"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it is realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. - Ron Paul

Sagan was also an advocate for marijuana use. Smoke a fat one and look at the glory of the stars. Boo ya.


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