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Old 02-19-2012, 22:26   #1
Metal Angel
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HD, kids in the house questions

What the best HD set up for a house with kids? I have an infant and a 2 year old, and until now, I have kept my 19, unchambered on a high shelf in my closet. I'm getting a handgun safe now before my 2year old gets interested in climbing... My question is this, is there anyway to keep a shotgun or AR for HD with kids in the house? I don't have one, but would like to get one, and I don't know how to keep it safe, but accessible... Should I just forget about it and stick with pistols? Any other options I'm not thinking of?
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Old 02-19-2012, 22:34   #2
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I used to keep a Mossberg full, with an empty chamber and the safety on.
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Old 02-19-2012, 22:45   #3
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Originally Posted by Metal Angel View Post
What the best HD set up for a house with kids? I have an infant and a 2 year old, and until now, I have kept my 19, unchambered on a high shelf in my closet. I'm getting a handgun safe now before my 2year old gets interested in climbing... My question is this, is there anyway to keep a shotgun or AR for HD with kids in the house? I don't have one, but would like to get one, and I don't know how to keep it safe, but accessible... Should I just forget about it and stick with pistols? Any other options I'm not thinking of?
"V-Line" makes quick-access lockboxes for both rifles, shotguns & handguns. Also check "Cannon," "Amsec" & "Fort Knox." You set the combination & it takes 1-2 seconds to open. That's the only smart way to have loaded weapons safe & quickly accessible, round chambered, ready to go. Most will hold two handguns. There is room enough for a small, powerful flashlight & extra mags. More than one in different locations = even better.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:04   #4
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The previous post is absolutely correct about lock boxes and the fact that you must use them to keep your firearms secure.

However, there is much more to be discussed because the presence of kids in the house poses also tactical issues. The first is round penetration: choosing a rifle will increase the risk of an over penetrating round hitting what you wanted to protect in the first place, and for me that is a big no.




Also, there is the issue of deployment: since you can't safely ensconce yourself in your bedroom while waiting for the police you have to go block the stairs or access to the kids' bedroom. To do that, you will need to operate light switches, open doors, all things that will be very awkward with a long gun in your hands. Also, a bad guy behind a wall might have an easier time grabbing your long gun from a hiding position.


The issue of round over penetration eliminates the AR completely. Your Glock 19 is a fine handgun which will do its job well and with good Hp ammo should minimize the risk of over penetration. I would recommend a shotgun in a static scenario such as covering the entrance of your bedroom from behind cover but not when a larger area has to be secured from a dynamic position for which I think a handgun is superior.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:15   #5
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First, I'll get the disclaimer out of the way. You need a safe to store your long guns.

Now that's done...

For the AR:

General Firearms Forum

GunVault MagVault.


Depending on the size of the handgun safe you purchased, you can pull out the AR's BCG & lock it in the pistol safe.

For the Shotgun:

General Firearms Forum

GunVault BreechVault.

There's also the ShotLock. I want to get one of these soon.

General Firearms Forum
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:18   #6
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I tend to go overboard on this issue and gun safety.

I lock all my guns up in my safes,then lock my safes up in my walk in closet,then i lock my bedroom door.I have a 13,4,and 2 year old and would never forgive myself if something happened them.

I know this sounds crazy,but the only gun that stays out is the one on my hip because I CARRY AT HOME.I don't like the idea of running to my guns and trying to unlock everything.

I also live in layers too, and it would be nearly impossible to get close to my house without me knowing ,so i would have plenty of time to prepare.

Last edited by dabigguns357; 02-20-2012 at 06:20..
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:35   #7
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Pistols, Rifles and shotguns versus wall material:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot12.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

One man's opinion:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu143.htm

Lockboxes - have some.
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:59   #8
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While I think having a safe to keep your guns in is an all around great idea, for both keeping your guns safe from others, and other's safe from your guns, in regards to children the number one best thing you can do is start teaching them about guns as early as you can. Kids that understand guns and the inherent dangers of them (ie: not toy) are much less likely to try to mess with them when you are not around. Taking the mystery out of guns is key to this. Introduce your kids to guns as early as possible and constantly and consistantly enforce safety rules, and you will raise responsible safe children. My $.02 anyhow!
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Old 02-20-2012, 07:15   #9
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While I think having a safe to keep your guns in is an all around great idea, for both keeping your guns safe from others, and other's safe from your guns, in regards to children the number one best thing you can do is start teaching them about guns as early as you can. Kids that understand guns and the inherent dangers of them (ie: not toy) are much less likely to try to mess with them when you are not around. Taking the mystery out of guns is key to this. Introduce your kids to guns as early as possible and constantly and consistantly enforce safety rules, and you will raise responsible safe children. My $.02 anyhow!
Agreed, mine started "helping" me clean mine at about 3-4, now at 7 he's learning basic marksmanship and he can make my g36 "safe" ie drop the mag and clear the chamber!!


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Old 02-20-2012, 07:19   #10
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Originally Posted by checkyoursix View Post
The issue of round over penetration eliminates the AR completely. Your Glock 19 is a fine handgun which will do its job well and with good Hp ammo should minimize the risk of over penetration. I would recommend a shotgun in a static scenario such as covering the entrance of your bedroom from behind cover but not when a larger area has to be secured from a dynamic position for which I think a handgun is superior.

Its all about ammo selection. The 5.56 with the correct ammo will penetrate less than a 9mm through barriers like walls, but be a much more effective stopper agaisnt a threat. However, there are no free lunches here. Any round with the power to effectively stop and attacker is going to have the power to penetrate a wall or more if you miss. An AR or 12ga with the correct ammo selection is the safest bet, but one still must be mindful of what is beyond their target and do their best to make sure they hit their mark.

I do agree that if you're forced to move alone through your home, a pistol is the better option. IMO, a pistol with a mounted light is just about optimal.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:10   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metal Angel View Post
What the best HD set up for a house with kids? I have an infant and a 2 year old, and until now, I have kept my 19, unchambered on a high shelf in my closet. I'm getting a handgun safe now before my 2year old gets interested in climbing...
I'm partial to this one

Besides that, it offers more security than most (7Ga) if you plan on leaving a dedicated HD gun in it all the time. Whatever you get be sure to bolt it to something solid so it can't walk off.


I keep a loaded 12ga in my safe in the closet if needed.
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Old 02-20-2012, 13:58   #12
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Another approach is to load the blank for the first shot. And, perhaps, to keep the mag not fully seated. Even if the kid will manage to slap the mag in, disengage the safety, rack the round and press the trigger, firing the blank will most likely discourage further experimentation.

Rfle/pistol will still be ready. You just need to remember to slap the mag and cycle the slide/bolt twice. Same with pump shotguns and revolvers.
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Old 02-20-2012, 18:09   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaPes View Post
First, I'll get the disclaimer out of the way. You need a safe to store your long guns.

Now that's done...

For the AR:

General Firearms Forum

GunVault MagVault.


Depending on the size of the handgun safe you purchased, you can pull out the AR's BCG & lock it in the pistol safe.

For the Shotgun:

General Firearms Forum

GunVault BreechVault.

There's also the ShotLock. I want to get one of these soon.

General Firearms Forum
Shotlock with a 12 gauge and some 00 buck.
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Old 02-21-2012, 08:14   #14
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I keep my 870 loaded and chambered with 000 buck...with a Remington RTL06 trigger lock. It hangs up high in the closet on a hook.

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Old 02-21-2012, 08:41   #15
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If you kept a Mossberg Crusier chamber empty but the tube full with the safety on. You would have to trip the pump action release button on the left hand side of the trigger assembly. Pump a round into the chamber and then release the safety and squeeze the trigger to fire a round off. Seems like a lot to do and it would be for a child but for an adult it's a piece of cake and can be done in approx one second. One kept high in a closet and out of the way from the little darlins with a child lock on the closet door works well. I did pretty much the same thing when my kids were small. However my kids were also taught that you never go into mommy and daddys room by yourself and we always kept the door to our room closed to keep toys that had a mind of there own out. Other than mommy and daddy being in the room, our room was a no toy zone and a very boring place for a kid to want to be by themselves.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:00   #16
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Until they are 4 or 5, just keep them out of reach when you aren't handling them. After that age, they are capable of being taught. Basic firearms safety is the BEST lesson you can teach your kids. The NRA Eddie Eagle program has excellent teaching aids.

Most accidental shootings involving children (not teenagers) occur because there is no adult present. Since when is it a good idea to leave any young child totally unattended around a firearm?

Over-penetration is a matter of ammo selection, not the firearm. I keep an AR15 carbine handy as we live out of town and get coyotes and other pests that might require a longer range shot. The little 45gr varmint rounds drop coyotes DRT, and blow up in sheetrock at close range.
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Old 02-22-2012, 00:17   #17
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When my kids were younger, I did two things with SD guns that I'll share.

The first was with the shotgun, like somebody else said. Chamber empty, magazine full, safety on, stored horizontally above the inside door of a walk-in closet more than 7 feet off the ground. I kept a cloth draped over it, too, so it didn't look like a gun to casual observance.

With the Glock I kept it chamber empty, magazine full with the trigger back. Little hands don't have the strength to cycle the slide and the trigger back gives me an immediate, tactile reminder in the dark that I need to charge the weapon. That setup is probably safe enough, but I kept that pistol in a nightstand safe anyway when they were tiny.
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:45   #18
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My parents had their guns on a rack, pistols in a drawer, and I knew better than to mess with them.

By age 7 I had a .22 and a .410 in my bedroom. An SKS and 12 gauge by 11.

I lived.

I doubt your young children could reach a high gun rack.

Keep them unloaded with ammo elsewhere if it worries you.

For pistols...the make picture frames that you can hide pistols in. Place it high enough and the kid wont get to it.

Easier access for you than a lock and it keeps it away from the kids.

Perhaps you could get your permit and carry while awake and leave it on the nightstand as you sleep.

Dont know about you guys, but I dont want to go looking for a key then fumble with a lock should I notice someone breaks in.
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Old 02-22-2012, 07:24   #19
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I have a 2.5 year old and a 4month old, and I think about this everyday. Currently, I keep all but one of my guns locked in my reloading room unloaded. I keep a glock 17 with a streamlight next to my bed in a "gunvault". I also do not have a chambered round in the 17. I have issues with the notion that education will keep kids from investigating guns at almost any age level. I don't know how many times, when I was a kid, that a friend would show me "their dads cool gun." Additionally, I have problems with the notion of "keeping a gun out of a kids reach." My daughter, at 2, could climb and get into places that would blow my mind. Her current trick is to drag a chair or box and get things down from shelves and cabinets. I can't think of a single place (that isn't locked) that she couldn't access. I personally think there would be nothing worse that my child harming themselves with one of my firearms. It would destroy everything in my life. I would rather be less prepared for a self-defense situation then have any part in a firearm related accident with my kids.


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Old 02-22-2012, 08:16   #20
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For those who think out of reach is OK here's another sad story from the news this morning.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02...4-fatally.html

Quote:
Police say the youngsters were in their mother's bedroom while she was in another part of the house. Police say the woman had put the handgun on top of a chest of drawers, thinking the weapon was out of the children's reach.
Police say the 4-year-old boy managed to get the gun and shoot his little brother.
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:01   #21
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Not going to tell you what you should do regarding what weapon you choose to protect your family nor how to store it but will tell you that ALL of your family needs to know exactly what a gun will do. Take them to the range. Let them hear the big bang they make. Shoot a watermelon to show them what they will do. Check the firearm in front of them and let them handle the weapon (of course age will need to be considered here).

I really feel so many accidents could have been prevented if the family firearm was not a "taboo" item that stayed partially hid and just something dad got to touch. I live on a ranch and all my family knows they just have to ask if they want to go shoot or handle one of my firearms. Most are in a safe but there are usually 3 that are not.

My 15 yo. son has a 10/22 in his room along with a single shot shotgun and his .243 Remington 700 deer rifle. He has had a gun in his room since age 12 and we have talked a bunch about his responsibility helping to protect the family if I am away and he is OK with it. While away he has got to dispach a varmint or two and was quite proud of himself. I still check his weapons though when he comes inside.

None of my kids have been curious about firearms as they have been around them all their lives. When they have friends over it is a different story and I remove my sons firearms from his room and make sure mine are secure as well.

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Old 02-22-2012, 09:25   #22
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i keep my handgun at the bedside.
but my shotgun, i keep in the closet, above the entrance on some hooks. i don't have a big walk in closet. my closet's the size where i wouldn't normally be deep enough that i could turn around and see the gun hung on the wall above the door frame. so if someone's looking around in my closet, it requires some real deliberate effort to notice the gun.
some people have such big closets that it's like a small room, in which case the shotgun wouldn't be hidden. but because my closet's small, it's hidden very easily. you wouldn't be able to notice it unless you squished yourself against my clothes on hangers and turned around AND looked up.
out of the way of my young daughter too. but easily accessible in an emergency.
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Old 02-22-2012, 14:05   #23
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I have a 3-1/2 yo and a 2 yo and keep a 12 gauge by my pillow, tube loaded, chamber not (because we all know that the racking of a 12 gauge is what makes burglars crap themselves!).

I have no fear that they will disturb it.

As they get older they will be educated about gun safety as well.


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Old 02-22-2012, 14:12   #24
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Someone is going to go off on me but this I how I did it with my son
I showed him the gun when he was 3 and let him play with it yes play like it was a toy for a few days
I was always there and the gun had no ammo
After a few weeks of this one day I left the mag with snap caps and the gun on his crib I was watching with the nanny cam he didn't touch it at all

At age 6 he got a 10/22 and in 2008 (age 9) he got a G17 and traded it last December for a new G19 Gen4
He did not have a toy gun 'till he asked for one a few years ago he's is now 12 and saving money to buy his own AR-15

Storing the gun in your house you need a dead bolt on the closet
AR15 or shotgun you unlock the door when you are going to have control of the weapons if you have it with you all the time is going to be normal for them and when they ask you "can I see the guns?" you drop everything and you show them
I realized the other day that he has seen me with a gun all of his life
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Old 02-22-2012, 15:21   #25
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What the best HD set up...
IMHO, the best set-up is a cell phone and a good handgun (and reload, of course) carried on your person until you're crawling into bed..at which time the gun goes into a GunVault Biometric vault beside the bed and the cell phone on top or beside the vault. A pair of good electronic muffs can be really handy as well. Perfect for when the wife wakes you up asking "do you hear something", just turn up the muffs and slip 'em on...if there is a mouse farting in the garage, you'll here it.
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